LAV-75; Stingray; M8 AGS

[Fusilier]

lol

and now you know and knowing is half the battle!

And for the other half

[Olefin]

M8 AGS prototypes

Just started posting on this forum. A question was asked a while back about what happened to the M8 AGS Prototypes. Well i can answer you on one. Its still at BAE Systems (ex United Defence) in York PA, still fully operational and is shown to potential customers from time to time.

And compared to the LAV-75 its definitely a weapon system that can take tanks and APC's on and kill them. They were due to go into production in 1996.

I am in the process of writing a Twilight 2000 Lions of Twilight module (using material posted on threads here) and the M8 AGS will make an appearance there as armor that was shipped out to Kenya in 1997 that came from the original production run.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Just started posting on this forum. A question was asked a while back about what happened to the M8 AGS Prototypes. Well i can answer you on one. Its still at BAE Systems (ex United Defence) in York PA, still fully operational and is shown to potential customers from time to time.

And compared to the LAV-75 its definitely a weapon system that can take tanks and APC's on and kill them. They were due to go into production in 1996.

I am in the process of writing a Twilight 2000 Lions of Twilight module (using material posted on threads here) and the M8 AGS will make an appearance there as armor that was shipped out to Kenya in 1997 that came from the original production run.

That's pretty cool; it's good to know that the AGS isn't sitting in front of some office block, rotting away.

As cool as the LAV-75 is "on paper", I agree it's really not that great hence my (decidedly non-canon) "LAV-105" which is closer to the AGS at least in weapon performance.

[boogiedowndonovan]

Just started posting on this forum. A question was asked a while back about what happened to the M8 AGS Prototypes. Well i can answer you on one. Its still at BAE Systems (ex United Defence) in York PA, still fully operational and is shown to potential customers from time to time.

And compared to the LAV-75 its definitely a weapon system that can take tanks and APC's on and kill them. They were due to go into production in 1996.

I am in the process of writing a Twilight 2000 Lions of Twilight module (using material posted on threads here) and the M8 AGS will make an appearance there as armor that was shipped out to Kenya in 1997 that came from the original production run.

re: M-8 AGS

there was a news article somewhere that four prototypes were deployed with the 82nd to Iraq. It can't seem to find it anymore, so it was probably just talk or wishful thinking.

Wikipedia article on the M-8 says that they tested a hybrid electric version of the M-8 AGS with 120mm gun. not sure about the availability of hybrid engines in T2k, but an upgunned 120mm AGS would be interesting.

[Olefin]

Yes they did - I know its here where I work and it looks like a tank killer to me

[Targan]

Welcome to the forums Olefin. I'm sure you have some very useful info for this forum (not sure how much you'll be allowed to tell us though!).

Yes they did - I know its here where I work and it looks like a tank killer to me

Are you referring to the hybrid electric version of the M-8 AGS with 120mm gun that boogiedowndonovan mentioned And if so is it possible for you to post a photo I for one would love to see such a vehicle, it sounds awesome.

[James1978]

M8 AGS - Game Specs

M8 AGS specs - need to convert it fully for the game but this will give you the flavor of the vehicle

M8 Armored Gun System
Armor: Level 1 protects against small arms fire and shell splinters
Level 3 protects against light hand-held anti-tank weapons
Crew; 3 (Commander, Gunner, Driver)
Armament: XM35 105mm rifled gun (30 rounds), 7.62mm Coaxial MG (4500 rounds), 12.7mm M2 Browning cupola mount (210 rounds)
Fuel: AvGas, diesel, alcohol
Fuel; 150 gallons (567.81 Litres)
Range: 280 miles(451km)
Speed: 45 mph (72 km/h) Road, 30 mph (48 km/h)
Vehicles shipped to Kenya had the Level 3 armor installed on them. If it is removed it can be airdropped with Level 1 protection by a C-130.

If you can get your hands on the Eastern Europe Sourcebook, it has game specs for the M8. My copy is in storage, but I'm sure someone else here has it handy.

[James1978]

Thunderbolt AGS

Are you referring to the hybrid electric version of the M-8 AGS with 120mm gun that boogiedowndonovan mentioned And if so is it possible for you to post a photo I for one would love to see such a vehicle, it sounds awesome.

It looks pretty much just like the baseline M8, but with a bigger gun. Just do a search for "Thunderbolt AGS" or "M8 Thunderbolt".

But I second the request for a current picture and any updates on the program.

[Sith]

The 120mm AGS was a proof of concept, and that's it. They just wanted to show that a 120 could work on a light vehicle. This knowledge went into the CV90120.

Also, the AGS was designed to be built on the Bradley production line. This was done to reduce cost and show the government that they had the capacity to mass-produce right away. With this in mind, I would think that Bradley production would have priority in the Twilight timeline.

Edit: Not sure if the Bradley production line is in York or not, something tells me that it's not.

[Sith]

To my knowledge, the AGS had it's last blast in 1999 with the PPD on Fort Knox that ultimately selected the Stryker. Since then BAE shows them off here and there with the hopes of a foreign sale, it's basically an off-the-shelf item. It's 1990s technology though, only a solid buyer would warrant an upgrade at this point.

I believe a few were loaned back to the Army at one point, mainly to test MGS tactical concepts before it's arrival. Not sure about this though.

[Sith]

Yeah, I figured you worked for BAE.

Thanks, Something in the back of my head was ringing California. Now I remember that they were using production on the Santa Clara line as a selling point in the early AGS material, changing to York later on.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

LAV-600

Per the wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAV_600

...the LAV-600 is used by the US Army. But in what role I thought the Stryker MGS filled the "thinks-its-a-tank-but-it-isn't" niche.

[ArmySGT.]

I think a few where bought as test beds for the stryker MGS for feasibility studies.

Every Stryker chassis was needed to fill the Brigades and a Lav 600 is somewhat cheaper.

Besides all anybody wanted to know was can you fire a full 105mm SABOT 90 degree off centerline and the vehicles doesn't tip over.

[Olefin]

For Twilight 2000 you may have seen a significant amount of these vehicles going into the late war light infantry divisions along with the AGS to try to give those units some ability to deal with enemy armor. Especially after the LAV-75 light tank turned out to be unable to deal with any enemy armor above an APC or armored car.

The 105mm gun means you actually have a chance to knock out Soviet armor where with the LAV-75 unless you are going for a mobility kill (i.e. shoot for the tracks and the suspension) you basically have no chance against anything more modern than a T-55 - and even then you might not get a real kill.

And it having the same gun as what is on the Stingray light tank would offer benefits as well - i.e. if the barrel was good to go still on a knocked out or out of commission Stingray it could be used for changeout, if necessary, on a LAV 600.

[Olefin]

By the way speaking of the Stingray - the ammo load for it in the game in both the V1 and V2 versions is incorrect

In the game it says it has 36 round of main gun ammo

Its actually only 32, with 8 ready rounds and 24 stowed in hull

And its only sales were to Thailand so for those playing the Bangkok module the tank should be added to the Bangkok Cesspool of the Orient lineup of available tanks for the Thais.