Australia Twilight War & After...

[Olefin]

I agree with much of what you said Leg but I think they will send more like company size based on their current dispositions in Afghanistan. May be as little as an MP company or a single infantry company but you dont use the fuel it takes to send men over for just 30 men.

And Australia does have good production facilities for ships and subs - i.e. the current series of frigates and the Collins subs. So that could be where they prove beneficial to the US - as a place to repair their ships and refit them.

It could be where the special US/Australian relationships comes from that was in 2300AD. I.e. keeping the USN in business (especially if the US helped with Indonesia) was where it all started.

[Olefin]

By the way - starting to put down some words on screen (who puts down words on paper anymore by the way) about the Papuan New Guinea armed forces and a possible start to an Indonesian Australian War based on Papua New Guinea with Australian help doing an all out offensive to end the secession in Bougainville in early 1997 - and leaving themselves wide open to the Indonesians invading, thus starting that conflict.

Definitely a start in looking at an area that really wasnt in the game at all - and could make a great area for adventuring in 2000-2001 time period for Australian and New Zealand characters.

[RN7]

Someone put this T2K Australian ORBAT up a while back. Its very detailed but does anybody think its realy sustainable


1st Australian Armoured Division
Subordination: I Australian Corps
Current Location: Ahvaz, Iran
Manpower: 5,000
Major Weapons: 46x Waler-120, 7x M1A2, 2x M1A1

History: A pre-war regular division known as the 1st Division with 1st Brigade (Mechanised) based in Darwin, NT, 2nd Brigade (Motorised) in Sydney, NSW and 6th Brigade (Motorised) in Brisbane, Qld. The full division was upgraded to armoured status and brought to a combat ready state during the defence build-up of 1995 and 1996. In early 1997 the division was deployed to the Middle East as the core component of the Australian contribution to the widening war between the West and the Soviet Union. The division came under the control of the US Central Command when it arrived at Saudi Arabian ports in February 1997. Attached to the US XVIII Airborne Corps the division was deployed to Iran, disembarking at the port of Abadan on May 3rd and deploying to combat straight off the boat. The division passed through the hard pressed US 82nd Airborne Division to drive the Soviet 104th Guards Air Assault Division out of its positions at Khorramshahr. Several Soviet counter attacks against the Khorramshahr/Abadan pocket were repelled after the 82nd Airborne was withdrawn. In concert with the US 24th Infantry Division (Mechanised) the division attacked northwards from early June towards Ahvaz as part of the US Congress mandated offensive. The attack stalled at the end of July when Soviet forces counterattacked. The division covered the withdrawal of the 24th Infantry from Ahvaz and was itself forced back to Khorramshahr. Tactical nuclear weapons were first used in late August and the division suffered heavy casualties from these weapons. After repelling a Soviet 7th Guards Army attack on October 6th the division launched limited counterattacks to tie down Soviet forces in support of Operation Pegasus II, the allied deep offensive. In late October the division began its drive on Ahvaz, overrunning the Soviet 261st Motorised Rifle Division and cutting off the badly mauled Soviet 24th Guards Motorised Rifle Division which was destroyed by the 24th Infantry. While the 24th Infantry took Ahvaz, the division leapfrogged northwards capturing Dezful. By the new year the two divisions had secured the entire Khuzestan Plain and linked up with the 82nd Airborne. On 26/1/98 the division linked up with the newly deployed 2nd Australian Armoured Division and the New Zealand Division to form I Australian Corps. Most of 1998 was spent in local security missions attempting to deal with the growing crisis caused by the GNE of late 1997. The Soviet 7th Guards Army launched another offensive in early August but this attack was repelled. In June 1999 the Soviets again launched an offensive but this faltered because of the collapse of their Iraqi allies leaving the Australians in control of the Khuzestan Plain.

2nd Australian Armoured Division
Subordination: I Australian Corps
Current Location: Dezful/Shushtar, Iran
Manpower: 5,500
Major Weapons: 48 x Waler-AGV

History: The division headquarters was formed 18/11/95 at Holsworthy Barracks, NSW and took under command the pre-war reserve 11th Brigade based in Townsville, Qld and the 13th Brigade from Perth, WA. The newly formed 1st Armoured Brigade in Sydney, NSW, brought the division to full strength. Mobilised under the general mobilisation order after the first US troops crossed the East German border in December 1996, the division was brought to full strength and began intensive training for conversion to armoured levels. The division was deployed along with the headquarters of I Australian Corps to Saudi Arabia during June/July 1997 to reinforce US Central Command and the 1st Australian Armoured Division. The division was responsible for security of the vital Saudi Arabian ports and oil fields along the north west coast of the Persian Gulf. Deployed to Iran on the eve of 1998 the division linked up with the 1st Australian Armoured under I Australian Corps control. After defeating two separate Soviet attacks the division has remained as a security force for the Khuzestan Plain, vital for its agriculture.

3rd Australian Armoured Division
Subordination: III Australian Corps
Current Location: Central NSW
Manpower: 14,000
Major Weapons: 98 x Waler-AGV

History: The division was formed 26/1/96 at Victoria Barracks, Brisbane with three brigades, the 2nd Armoured based in Wagga Wagga, NSW, the 3rd Armoured based in Woodside, SA and the 4th Armoured based in Puckapunyal, VIC. The division was deployed to South Australia, where it took advantage of this states large military training areas and defence infrastructure to train and equip for mechanised combat. SA was hit the hardest by the GNE with eight nuclear warheads detonating within 24 hours on "Ash Sunday," November 2, 1997, causing considerable destruction and nuclear fallout. The GNE and subsequent chaos decimated 7th Division and it was almost destroyed during its attempts to bring order to SA. The division was pulled out as part of the general evacuation of Adelaide during the summer of 97/98 and was transferred to Puckapunyal, Vic for rest and refitting. Once it was ready for operations again, in late 1999, the division was used to cover the general evacuation from the interior of Australia. Since then the 7th Division has provided the primary covering force for the line of control through central NSW and south eastern Queensland. The divisions main role is long range fire sweeps into uncontrolled areas, assisting local governments and trying to wipe out marauder groups and challenges to Australian Theatres authority.

1st Australian Division
Subordination: III Australian Corps
Current Location: Victoria
Manpower: 16,000
Major Weapons: 14x Leopard 1

History: The division was formed as a reserve formation on 26/1/96 at Victoria Barracks, Melbourne with three brigades; the 14th based in Melbourne, Vic, the 15th based in Puckapunyal, Vic and the 16th with units across SA, WA and Tas. The division was mobilised on 1/1/97 and tasked with the security of southern and central WA including Perth, Kalgoorlie and the Pilbara. The division was severely damaged by the nuclear strikes on the Perth region and suffered heavy casualties trying to quell civil disturbance during the summer of 97/98. After the divisions positions in the west became untenable it was withdrawn to Victoria in late 1998. The division was brought up to full strength during a spell of rest and recovery at Puckapunyal Barracks, Vic. Australian Theatre then allocated the division the ~fire brigade role for security in the 3rd Military District area.

2nd Australian Division
Subordination: II Australian Corps
Current Location: Ceram, Ambon, Morotai, Halmahera and Timor
Manpower: 7,500
Major Weapons: 10x Leopard 1, 8x OH-58D

History: A pre-war reserve division with 5th Brigade based in Sydney, NSW, 7th Brigade in Brisbane, Qld and 8th Brigade in Newcastle, NSW. The division was upgraded to ready reserve status (about half full time personnel) and brought to a combat ready state during the defence build-up of 1995 and 1996. Mobilised in December 1996 as the US entered the war against the Soviet Union the division was deployed in security roles across North Eastern Australia. The division deployed its 7th Brigade to Papua New Guinea (PNG) in late 1997 to quell increasing urban and rural violence caused by the global destruction of the general nuclear exchange (GNE). When Indonesia attacked PNG in January 1998 the 7th Brigade held of the Indonesian 17th and 18th Airborne Brigades assault on Port Moresby. Reinforced by the rest of 2nd Division the Australian and PNG counterattack overrun the remaining Indonesian forces south of the highlands during operations in February. 2nd Division, reinforced by the 1st and 3rd Battalions of the Royal Pacific Islands Regiment then began a series of amphibious and airmobile strikes against the Indonesian cantonments across the northern shore of PNG. On the 3rd July 1998 the division captured Jayapura in West Papua (Irian Jaya) nominally Indonesian territory. Coming under II Australian Corps, the now veteran 2nd Division became the main force in the 1999 offensive into Eastern Indonesia. This offensive quickly captured the rest of West Papua, the Moluccan Islands and East Timor. The Australian forces meet little effective resistance as most of the Indonesian battle ready units, warships and combat aircraft had been destroyed the year before in Papua New Guinea. In fact many of the local communities greeted the Australians as liberators from Javanese control. 2nd Division spent the rest of 1999 and most of 2000 establishing II Corps authority across the newly occupied Indonesian territory. With the growing schism between II Corps commanding general MAJGEN Thurston and the Governor-General, Australian Theatre Commander and effective head of what is left of a central Australian government, GEN Walker, 2nd Division has declared its support to II Corps. The division is no longer responding to orders directly from Northern Command or Australian Theatre, it is only loyal to II Corps.

3rd Australian Division
Subordination: Northern Command
Current Location: North and North West Australia
Manpower: 10,000
Major Weapons: 10x Leopard 1, 6x OH-58D

History: A pre-war reserve division the 3rd included the 4th and 12th Brigades in Melbourne, Vic and the 9th Brigade in Adelaide, SA. The division was called out on 20 December 1996 as the war in China and Germany escalated into global conflict. Deployed to the Northern Territory and North West WA the division became the primary security force of Northern Command. The GNE hardly effected the division, as all nuclear strikes on Australia were to the south of its operational area and prevailing monsoonal winds at this time were northerly. Also the low population of northern Australia meant the division was spared the heavy toll of the post GNE disease outbreaks and civil disruption. The division is still controlling the Northern Command enclaves at the vital resource extraction centres across North Western Australia.

4th Australian Division
Subordination: II Australian Corps
Current Location: Papua New Guinea, Irian Jaya, Far North Queensland
Manpower: 10,000
Major Weapons: 4x OH-58D

History: The division was formed 26/1/96 at Victoria Barracks, Sydney with three brigades, the 16th based in Sydney, NSW, the 17th based in Brisbane, Qld and the 18th based in Newcastle, NSW. The division was filled with many ready reserve soldiers and recalled ex-servicemen, all with at least one years full time service, which enabled the division to come to a combat ready level reasonably quickly. The division took over security roles for the South Eastern corner of Australia during 1997 and was being prepared for service in the Middle East when the GNE caused considerable destruction. The division was able to avoid direct damage from the nuclear exchange but was heavily pressed in diaster relief and, at sometimes, quite brutal suppression of civil disorder. With the south east generally calm after the summer of 97/98 and with the 3rd Australian Armoured Division, 5th and 6th Australian Divisions deployed in the area, the 4th was moved by sea to PNG to reinforce II Australian Corps for the counteroffensive against the Indonesian forces. While 2nd Australian Division moved down the northern coast of PNG, 4th Division assaulted Indonesian forces on Manus Island and then prepared for the assault against Rabual. The two Australian brigades that landed at Rabual, not only faced the defending Indonesian brigade but the full fury of a volcanic eruption. The Rabual area was evacuated after 4th Division quickly offered diaster relief to the local population and most of the Indonesian forces that had surrendered after being caught between the ~the frying-pan and the fire-place. While 2nd Division moved into Eastern Indonesia in early 1999, 4th Division took up a rear area security task. This was no easy mission since it was responsible for the entire New Guinea Island; the worlds second largest island with the most rugged terrain in the world. 4th Division is still in control of New Guinea and is in fact the only effective authority in this region, something which II Corps exploits to the full. The division is no longer responding to orders directly from Northern Command or Australian Theatre; it is only loyal to II Corps.

5th Australian Division
Subordination: III Australian Corps
Current Location: East NSW
Manpower: 16,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: The division was formed on 25 April 1997 and was primarily made up of newly trained conscripts, though its 28th Brigade and some divisional elements comprised pre-war reserve training units. The division was tasked with security for the state of New South Wales and was intended to relieve the 3rd Australian Division in northern Australia, so that this formation could be deployed to the Middle East. The GNE and the Indonesian invasion of PNG ended these plans and the 5th Division has stayed on in NSW providing local security and disaster relief since its formation. The division was brought up to strength in early 1999 by comb-outs of surplus Navy and Air Force personnel. The division currently forms a border guard force across the ~Newell Line in central NSW.

6th Australian Division
Subordination: III Australian Corps
Current Location: South East Queensland
Manpower: 14,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: The division was formed on 25 April, 1997 and was primarily made up of newly trained conscripts, with some divisional elements comprising pre-war reserve training units. The division was tasked with security for the state of Victoria and was intended to relieve the 2nd Australian Division in northern Australia and PNG, so that they could be deployed to the Middle East. The GNE and the subsequent Indonesian invasion of PNG ended these plans and the 6th Division was deployed to Queensland to secure the supply lines to II Corps in PNG. While the division was readied to deploy to PNG, the success of the Australian counter invasion meant it wasnt required and since the required transport wasnt available anyway the division stayed in South and Central Queensland. The division was forced to withdraw to the south east corner of Queensland due to increasing lawlessness and now forms a powerful guard force against any incursions into the controlled zone.

The New Zealand Division
Subordination: I Australian Corps
Current Location: Khorramshahr, Iran
Manpower: 3,500
Major Weapons: 10x M1A1

History: The ~fireball division was formed on 10 February, 1997, comprising the 4th and 7th Brigades and was deployed to the Middle East as reinforcements to the 3rd Australian Expeditionary Force later in the year. All division elements had arrived in Saudi Arabian ports by October 1997. The division is made up of motorised and mechanised infantry, equipped with HMMWV and M113 vehicles, the divisional armoured regiment is a mix of Scorpion light tanks and M1s supplied by the US Army. The division has been under I Australian Corps since early 1998 and has partaken in all the battles for the Khuzestan Plain area of Iran.

1st Military District
Subordination: Australian Theatre
Current Location: South East Queensland
Manpower: 10,000
Major Weapons: 6x Leopard 1

History: A pre-war administrative command responsible for an area roughly aligned to the state of Queensland. Headquartered in Victoria Barracks, Brisbane the district took over all remaining civil authority as well as local naval and air forces in Queensland on 1/1/99. Given the regional security role several battalions of local infantry were raised across the district to provide local defence. These forces operated on a one month active/one month inactive rotation. Due to infrastructure damage and increasing lawlessness the districts area of authority has been reduced to an area south east of a line from the town of St. George to the coast at Bundaberg with a small enclave around Rockhampton and Gladstone.

2nd Military District
Subordination: Australian Theatre
Current Location: East NSW
Manpower: 45,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: A pre-war administrative command responsible for an area roughly aligned to the state of New South Wales. Headquartered in Victoria Barracks, Sydney the district took over all remaining civil authority as well as local naval and air forces in NSW on 1/1/99. The districts area of authority has been reduced to the area east of the Newell Highway in central NSW. Several inland cantonments are under military authority but beyond these areas and the periodic fire sweeps most of NSW is on its own.

3rd Military District
Subordination: Australian Theatre
Current Location: Victoria
Manpower: 40,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: A pre-war administrative command responsible for an area roughly aligned to the state of Victoria. Headquartered in Victoria Barracks, Melbourne the district took over all remaining civil authority as well as local naval and air forces in Victoria on 1/1/99. The district controls virtually all of the state of Victoria, except for a few isolated areas.

5th Military District
Subordination: Northern Command
Current Location: South West Western Australia
Manpower: 6,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: A pre-war administrative command responsible for an area roughly aligned to the state of Western Australia. Headquartered in Irwin Barracks, Perth the district took over all remaining civil authority as well as local naval and air forces in Western Australia on 1/1/99. The 5th Military District has been reduced to the area between Perth and Albany in the south-west corner of WA. Also some cantonments in the north centred on the Pilbara are under the control of a brigade from the 3rd Australian Division. The district is under heavy pressure from the wild lawless elements operating out of Kalgoorlie-Boulder and is maintaining its area of control through particularly harsh martial law.

6th Military District
Subordination: None
Current Location: Tasmania
Manpower: 5,000
Major Weapons: 0

History: A pre-war administrative command responsible for an area aligned to the state of Tasmania. Headquartered at Battery Point, Hobart the district took over all remaining civil authority as well as local naval and air forces in Tasmania on 1/1/99. However after this date the district ceased responding to central authority on the Australian mainland. The district controls most of Tasmania on a collective basis with local civilian authorities and is intent on ignoring the rest of the world, beyond the odd mainland, Japanese and French trading vessel.

1st Cavalry Brigade
Subordination: I Australian Corps
Current Location: Khuzestan Plain, Iran
Manpower: 800
Major Weapons: 20x Waler-AGV

History: The brigade headquarters was formed 17/10/95 at Puckapunyal, Vic and took under command pre-war reserve armoured regiments from NSW and newly formed units. The brigade was structured and trained as an armoured reconnaissance formation on a TO&E very similar to a US Army Armoured Cavalry Regiment. Fully equipped with modern vehicles the brigade deployed to the Middle East with Headquarters I Australian Corps to act as its heavy reconnaissance and screening force. While I Corps secured Saudi ports the brigade was attached to 1st Australian Armoured Division in Iran. The brigade entered combat against Soviet mechanised forces in support of Pegasus II offensive. 1st Cavalry Brigade operated as far north as Kabir Kuh in support of 1st Armoured Divisions drive on Dezful. In 1998 the brigade patrolled the Iraqi border with frequent cross border operations to disrupt Iraqi logistic support of Soviet forces. The brigade suffered heavy casualties in the July 1999 Soviet offensive and it was temporary cut off by advancing Iraqi divisions. However remaining a fighting force behind Iraqi lines contributed to their collapse and the depleted brigade was able to link up with the rest of I Corps. After rest and refit the brigade has taken on a ~fire brigade mission to reinforce threatened areas of the Khuzestan Plain.

2nd Cavalry Brigade
Subordination: Northern Command
Current Location: Darwin, NT
Manpower: 2,500, 1,000 cavalry
Major Weapons: 14x Waler-AGV

History: The brigade was formed 26/1/96 at Robertson Barracks, Darwin, NT as Northern Commands reconnaissance formation. The 2nd Cavalry was never brought up to full mechanised scales with half of its squadrons relaying on motorised transport.

3rd Cavalry Brigade
Subordination: III Australian Corps
Current Location: Dubbo, NSW
Manpower: 2,000 cavalry
Major Weapons: 0

History: The brigade was raised on 12/3/99 at Puckapunyal, Vic as a fully horse mounted formation.

3rd Infantry Brigade (Airborne)
Subordination: II Australian Corps
Current Location: Cairns, Queensland
Manpower: 1,500
Major Weapons: 10x OH-58D

History: A pre war regular brigade headquartered at Lavarack Barracks, Townsville, Qld. The 3rd Brigade was kept at a high state of readiness as Australias strategic reserve until April 1996 when it was deployed in a lightning strike against Bougainville separatists in PNG. The brigade combined with local forces and carried out a successful strike on the separatists and was able to re-open the contested Pangua copper mine. The brigade returned to Townsville, Qld in early 1997 and resumed its role as a regional ready reaction force. In response to the Indonesian invasion of PNG the brigade launched a successful airborne assault on Wewak, PNG. From this base the brigade was able to disrupt Indonesian lines of communication through the successful counterattack by PNG forces and the 2nd and 4th Divisions. During the successful counter invasion of eastern Indonesia in early 1999, the brigade was responsible for capturing East Timor. The brigade launched its second airborne assault on the town of Biablo from where it interdicted East and West Timor. Local counterattacks from Indonesian security forces were defeated by the brigade linking up with local anti Indonesian forces. The brigade was withdrawn to Cairns, Qld in October 1999 and replaced in East Timor by units of the 2nd Division. The brigade now serves as a reserve force for II Australian Corps and is no longer accepting orders from Northern Command or Australian Theatre.

The Special Air Service Regiment
Subordination: I Australian Corps
Current Location: Dezful, Iran
Manpower: 350
Major Weapons: 0

History: The regimental headquarters of the Australian SAS was deployed to the Middle East to take operational control over several special forces sub-units.

1st Commando Regiment
Subordination: II Australian Corps
Current Location: Port Moresby, PNG
Manpower: 250
Major Weapons: 0

7th Commando Regiment
Subordination: Australian Theatre
Current Location: Sydney, NSW
Manpower: 400
Major Weapons: 0

The Tactical Assault Group (SAS)
Subordination: Australian Theatre
Current Location: Melbourne, Vic
Manpower: 200
Major Weapons: 0

The Tasmanian Defence Brigade
Subordination: 6th Military District
Current Location: Tasmania
Manpower: 2,500, 1,000 cavalry
Major Weapons: 0

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I agree with much of what you said Leg but I think they will send more like company size based on their current dispositions in Afghanistan. May be as little as an MP company or a single infantry company but you dont use the fuel it takes to send men over for just 30 men.

And Australia does have good production facilities for ships and subs - i.e. the current series of frigates and the Collins subs. So that could be where they prove beneficial to the US - as a place to repair their ships and refit them.

It could be where the special US/Australian relationships comes from that was in 2300AD. I.e. keeping the USN in business (especially if the US helped with Indonesia) was where it all started.

Afghanistan is not a good basis for comparison, it's nothing like the commitment we'd have with the Twilight War (we can concentrate resources in Afghanistan that would not be available in the Twilight War).
However, I agree that it simply would not be worth the fuel to send anything smaller than a Company anywhere.

Our Military Police don't operate in the same manner as US Army MP Companies do, the MPs are usually sent in small groups to where ever they are required. They don't have the assets or personnel to do something like convoy escort like the US MPs do.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Someone put this T2K Australian ORBAT up a while back. Its very detailed but does anybody think its realy sustainable ...

It's very nice but too much of a "wish-list" I think. While Australia in that timeline might be able to raise the levels of manpower listed here, there's too many vehicles. The mention of the Waler vehicle infers some level of local manufacture and considering the numbers quoted it would be significant manufacture.

I think that the Waler listed here is meant to be the new armoured vehicle from Project Whaler of the mid-1980s. In real-life, bureaucrats and arm-chair strategists decided the Australian Army didn't need a medium/heavy protected troop carrier so the project went nowhere.

I just don't see that with the disorganized state of Australia (and lack of central control) as listed in the main books, that the Federal Government could muster the resources or manpower to supply such a massive army (these figures total about 220,000) in the Twilight War.

[Olefin]

I looked at the order of battle and I think its too big for what Australia could put in the field unless they totally mobilized the country and even then not sure they could equip it.

And I dont see Australia getting hit by nukes in the timeline - they just arent that good a target for nukes when places like Chicago never got touched - let alone important military production facilities like the United Defense plant in York PA or Anniston Army Depot.

They just arent a real threat to the Soviets as they are.

Now once Australia starts being very important to the US once a lot of their facilities in the US are getting either abandoned or overrun by marauders - sure - but thats not till late 1998 early 1999 - and by then both countries are done with using nukes for the most part.

Plus - if Australia is wiped out by nukes or collapses I dont see the special relationship in 2300 AD happening - but having them there to help the US restart again thats different - even if a lot of the interior of the country ends up looking like Mad Max due to fuel shortages for a few decades.

[Olefin]

Could I see Australia raising perhaps 5-6 Divisions of men - yes that could be done as long as arms could be found for them - even if a lot of them are armed with civilian weapons initially or civilian vehicles converted to military use (they sure have enough good off road vehicles)

And with the coal reserves they have getting power for their industry shouldnt be that much of an issue.

[RN7]

It's very nice but too much of a "wish-list" I think. While Australia in that timeline might be able to raise the levels of manpower listed here, there's too many vehicles. The mention of the Waler vehicle infers some level of local manufacture and considering the numbers quoted it would be significant manufacture.

I think that the Waler listed here is meant to be the new armoured vehicle from Project Whaler of the mid-1980s. In real-life, bureaucrats and arm-chair strategists decided the Australian Army didn't need a medium/heavy protected troop carrier so the project went nowhere.

I just don't see that with the disorganized state of Australia (and lack of central control) as listed in the main books, that the Federal Government could muster the resources or manpower to supply such a massive army (these figures total about 220,000) in the Twilight War.

Australia actually does have a significant vehicle production capacity. General Dynamics builds the ASLAV in Adelaide and Thales Australia makes the Bushmaster & Hawkei in Bendigo and Wingfield, and there are commercial car and light vehicle factories in Adelaide (GM-Holden), Melbourne (Ford, IVECO, Toyota) and Geelong (Ford), a truck factory in Brisbane (Mack) and engine factories in Geelong (Ford) and Melbourne (GM-Holden).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Australia actually does have a significant vehicle production capacity. General Dynamics builds the ASLAV in Adelaide and Thales Australia makes the Bushmaster & Hawkei in Bendigo and Wingfield, and there are commercial car and light vehicle factories in Adelaide (GM-Holden), Melbourne (Ford, IVECO, Toyota) and Geelong (Ford), a truck factory in Brisbane (Mack) and engine factories in Geelong (Ford) and Melbourne (GM-Holden).

You have to take into account that for the armoured vehicles mentioned, the factories were not even in the construction phase let alone ready for production in the time period covered by Twilight: 2000. Also, some of the truck plants mentioned didn't come about until the mid-late 1990s and later and they don't produce a lot of vehicles - production has only risen to 7000/year in the late 2000s.

There was also significant loss of production in the 1990s due to the growth of the Korean car manufacturers and the end of Nissan production in Australia in 1992. The cheaper Korean imports caused major losses for local car makers and they cut the number of models offered and staff numbers to save money. It was widely felt in the early 1990s that the Australia auto industry would be in major decline by the 2000s

We are undoubtedly able to produce armoured vehicles, design studies were conducted in the 1980s when Project Whaler was being examined and they found that we had all the necessary infrastructure but were somewhat lacking in experience.
Having the infrastructure was one thing, political will and military necessity are other things again and at the time the political will was lacking. Nothing was really done to address this until the late 1990s - outside the timeframe of Twilight: 2000.

For example, I believe the ASLAV production in South Australia was begun in the early 2000s. The Global War On Terror gave the Australian Government the political will to invest in these facilities but for the Twilight War, I'd argue that the Australian Government would probably feel insulated from the war in Europe and would not see any urgent need to commence our own armoured vehicle production until the war with Indonesia.

By that time, it would be too late. By 2000, the country as described in the books, is in a state of chaos with significant breakdown of central government. Starting a project to build armoured vehicles would be very much a localized affair suffering all the problems that that would entail. Certainly some projects may have been started in the 1996-2000 period but with the gradual breakdown of central authority, I can't see them having much more than a limited run of vehicles at best.

Small arms, grenades & other explosives, uniforms and light vehicles are another matter again. The infrastructure for these has existed for quite some time but they too would suffer after the breakdown of central authority because their components are often sourced from either outside the nation or in areas within the nation separated by large distances.

[RN7]

You have to take into account that for the armoured vehicles mentioned, the factories were not even in the construction phase let alone ready for production in the time period covered by Twilight: 2000. Also, some of the truck plants mentioned didn't come about until the mid-late 1990s and later and they don't produce a lot of vehicles - production has only risen to 7000/year in the late 2000s.

I think the plant at Bendigo was around during the Twilight War period and run by ADI Ltd. The Mack truck factory in Wacol QLD was built in 1972 and is now owned by Volvo. Also I think FIAT-IVECO were building trucks and plant machinery in Australia in the 1990s.

There was also significant loss of production in the 1990s due to the growth of the Korean car manufacturers and the end of Nissan production in Australia in 1992. The cheaper Korean imports caused major losses for local car makers and they cut the number of models offered and staff numbers to save money. It was widely felt in the early 1990s that the Australia auto industry would be in major decline by the 2000s.

Chrysler and the British car makers are long gone but GM Holden and Ford have been in Australia since well before WW2 and are still going strong, in fact they seem to be doing better than the Japanese as Nissan and Mitsubishi are now gone leaving only Toyota.

We are undoubtedly able to produce armoured vehicles, design studies were conducted in the 1980s when Project Whaler was being examined and they found that we had all the necessary infrastructure but were somewhat lacking in experience.
Having the infrastructure was one thing, political will and military necessity are other things again and at the time the political will was lacking. Nothing was really done to address this until the late 1990s - outside the timeframe of Twilight: 2000.

For example, I believe the ASLAV production in South Australia was begun in the early 2000s. The Global War On Terror gave the Australian Government the political will to invest in these facilities but for the Twilight War, I'd argue that the Australian Government would probably feel insulated from the war in Europe and would not see any urgent need to commence our own armoured vehicle production until the war with Indonesia.

By that time, it would be too late. By 2000, the country as described in the books, is in a state of chaos with significant breakdown of central government. Starting a project to build armoured vehicles would be very much a localized affair suffering all the problems that that would entail. Certainly some projects may have been started in the 1996-2000 period but with the gradual breakdown of central authority, I can't see them having much more than a limited run of vehicles at best.

Small arms, grenades & other explosives, uniforms and light vehicles are another matter again. The infrastructure for these has existed for quite some time but they too would suffer after the breakdown of central authority because their components are often sourced from either outside the nation or in areas within the nation separated by large distances.

Australia's defence industry has certainly been on an upswing since 2000, their even building ships for the US Navy at the moment. Although a lot of the infrastructure is new, a lot of it was also around in the 1990s. Outside of the 2300AD timeline there is little of nothing about what happens in Australia during the Twilight War from canon, so we dont know if it was nuked or how heavily it was nuked. But 2300AD does state that the Australian military survived and took control of the country, and if that is the case then factories that produced its guns, munitions, uniforms and sundaries are likely to have been well defended.

[Targan]

Chrysler and the British car makers are long gone but GM Holden and Ford have been in Australia since well before WW2 and are still going strong, in fact they seem to be doing better than the Japanese as Nissan and Mitsubishi are now gone leaving only Toyota.

"Going strong" is an illusion. They're heavily propped up by government (state and federal) financial assistance. It's a vote-buying exercise. Realistically, the Australian car making industry is no longer economically viable in a self-sufficient way.

Australia's defence industry has certainly been on an upswing since 2000, their even building ships for the US Navy at the moment. Although a lot of the infrastructure is new, a lot of it was also around in the 1990s. Outside of the 2300AD timeline there is little of nothing about what happens in Australia during the Twilight War from canon, so we dont know if it was nuked or how heavily it was nuked. But 2300AD does state that the Australian military survived and took control of the country, and if that is the case then factories that produced its guns, munitions, uniforms and sundaries are likely to have been well defended.

I suspect there were 4 major factors which led to the US-Australian alliance in 2300. 1) A logical extension of the alliance as it exists in RL now and in the time of the Twilight War; 2) Australia is likely to have become a vital stepping stone in the US Navy's links between the CONUS and the Middle East in the years at the end of and immediately after the Twilight War; 3) Australia has vast natural resources that are relatively easy to get to and far less tapped-out than America's so Australia is likely to have been a major trading partner of the US post-Twilight War (and something of a breadbasket too); and 4) I strongly suspect that Australia was one of those nations lucky enough to have found significant tantalum reserves in its territory, but needed the technological expertise of the US to fully realise tantalum's potential to make those nations with access to it into space-going powers.

[Webstral]

And I dont see Australia getting hit by nukes in the timeline - they just arent that good a target for nukes when places like Chicago never got touched - let alone important military production facilities like the United Defense plant in York PA or Anniston Army Depot.

They just arent a real threat to the Soviets as they are.

They are members of an alliance containing the US. That's more than enough justification. If Australian forces have in any way opposed, much less hampered, Soviet forces or interests or the forces or interests of nations friendly to the Soviet Union, the justification becomes iron-clad. The Soviets are not fair-minded. To whatever degree the US might care about fair play, the Soviet Union cares even less.

From the start, the logic of the nuclear exchange has been to gain advantage without initiating a general strategic US-USSR exchange. Each nuke used in the US-USSR strategic exchange had a place in this logic. Washington D.C. gets hit because it is the US seat of power. New York, the nations most populous city, does not. Moscow gets hit because it is the seat of Soviet power. The rest of the targets are very important military targets, like SAC HQ, or refineries. The strikes on Los Angeles wipe out the city as a matter of collateral damage, not deliberate policy. The Soviets calculate that knocking out the electricity and petroleum refining will ruin the American war economy without inviting retaliatory strikes against Soviet population centers as a whole.

The allies, on the other hand, are a different story. If the US is playing a game of even exchange, which is about the only way to prevent MAD from becoming a reality, then nuclear attacks on US allies shouldnt bring about attacks on the USSR. As I tried to point out already, Soviet attacks on Canada, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand should not result in American attacks on Soviet targets, provided the Americans read the signs correctly. If one looks at the Canada hit list, Canada gets hit a lot harder than the US on a per capita basis. Clearly, the Soviets werent that worried about retaliation for beating the crap out of Canada.

Australia has raw materials, energy resources, industry, and a well-educated population. In the post-Exchange world, an intact Australia poses a threat to Soviet interests. The Soviets know perfectly well that it may take a century to repair all of the damage from the Exchange. If any Western nation, or for that matter any nation not under the thumb of the Soviets, is left with the kinds of assets possessed by Australia or France in 1997, that nation gets a massive advantage in the reshuffling of global power that will occur in the early 21st Century. The Soviets are not the kind of people to permit this. The US got off comparatively lightly because the US had the means to annihilate the Soviet Union if the Soviets got carried away. Australia lacks even the deterrent that France possesses. With all sympathy to my Australian compatriots, I think GDWs portrayal of Australia as being hard hit shows Soviet thinking accurately.

[RN7]

"Going strong" is an illusion. They're heavily propped up by government (state and federal) financial assistance. It's a vote-buying exercise. Realistically, the Australian car making industry is no longer economically viable in a self-sufficient way.

I think every countries car industry is or has been propped up by their government to a varying extent for the reasons you mentioned, usualy because their whoefully innefficient. The French, Germans, Italians and the Japanese have all practised protectionism, subtle or not so subtle. Even truely free-market economies like America and Britain have dabbled in the affairs of their car makers.

[Legbreaker]

The Australian OOB RN7 reposted above is complete rubbish for the reasons others have posted. The "Tasmanian Brigade" as just one example is near impossible! IRL, Tasmania has on paper an infantry Battalion plus a handful of small support units (one artillery battery of just a few 81mm mortars, medical unit, admin and transport (a few trucks). Total manpower right now is about 2-300, with most of them in the infantry "Battalion" (which only has one company with a platoon in Devonport, Launceston and Hobart, the state capital).

The population of the entire state can't support much more than that for long (about 400,000 people) and after the three population centres listed above, the next largest town only has 19,000.

So, a sustainable force of 3,500 in addition to the Tasmanians the writer assigned to his 1st Aus Division Not a chance!

Also, the 3rd Airborne "Brigade" is nothing more than a Battalion. Last year (2011) it changed from an airborne (Parachute) battalion to only having a "smaller high-readiness Airborne Combat Team". http://www.3rar.com/3rarhistory.html

I believe the original writer may have been confused about what a "Regiment" is in Australia. Basically, regiment is an infantry term. RAR is Royal Australian Regiment, RNSWR is Royal New South Wales Regiment, RQR is Royal Queensland Regiment and so forth. RAR is regular army, the rest are reserve and organised on state lines. The Tasmanians mentioned above IRL are 12/40 Battalion RTR and a part of 9th Brigade, with in turn is a component of 2nd Division.

[RN7]

The Australian OOB RN7 reposted above is complete rubbish for the reasons others have posted. The "Tasmanian Brigade" as just one example is near impossible! IRL, Tasmania has on paper an infantry Battalion plus a handful of small support units (one artillery battery of just a few 81mm mortars, medical unit, admin and transport (a few trucks). Total manpower right now is about 2-300, with most of them in the infantry "Battalion" (which only has one company with a platoon in Devonport, Launceston and Hobart, the state capital).

The population of the entire state can't support much more than that for long (about 400,000 people) and after the three population centres listed above, the next largest town only has 19,000.

So, a sustainable force of 3,500 in addition to the Tasmanians the writer assigned to his 1st Aus Division Not a chance!

Also, the 3rd Airborne "Brigade" is nothing more than a Battalion. Last year (2011) it changed from an airborne (Parachute) battalion to only having a "smaller high-readiness Airborne Combat Team". http://www.3rar.com/3rarhistory.html

I believe the original writer may have been confused about what a "Regiment" is in Australia. Basically, regiment is an infantry term. RAR is Royal Australian Regiment, RNSWR is Royal New South Wales Regiment, RQR is Royal Queensland Regiment and so forth. RAR is regular army, the rest are reserve and organised on state lines. The Tasmanians mentioned above IRL are 12/40 Battalion RTR and a part of 9th Brigade, with in turn is a component of 2nd Division.

I think Australian in T2K could support an army of no more than four divisions and maybe a few independent units. This would include all the reserves and two of those divisions are going to be light infantry divisions at best.

However in WW2 Australia did actually put together a large army. On paper the Australian Army was very large; two armoured divisons (1, 3) twelve infantry divisions (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12) of which two were motorised at one time, and two independent armoured brigades. One million Australians served in the armed forces including 727,000 in the army, and 397,000 served overseas. However both of the armoured divsions and five of the infantry divisions never left Australia and were reserve & training units, three of the active infantry divisions (3, 5, 11) were formed from militia and the 8th Infantry Division surrendered to the Japanese in Malaya in 1942 and was never reformed.