French involvement in the Europe after 2001.

[Mohoender]

Complete French Army OOB (Including Reserves)

FORCE D'ACTION RAPIDE (FAR/Rapid Deployment Force)
Direct reporting units
o 17e RCS
o 2e RG
o 4e RMat
o 18e RTrans
o 28e RTrans
o 511e RT
o 602e RCR
Combat Units
o 4e DAM : 3800 Men, 94 Gazelle, 52 Puma (at full strength this was about 6000 Men and 240 helicopters, 1 Infantry regiment and 3 helicopter regiments)
o 6e DLB : 4400 Men, 36 AMX-10RC, VBL, VAB
o 9e DIMa : 5900 Men, 26 AMX-10RC, VBL, VAB
o 11e DP : 4200 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB
o 27e DA : 4400 Men, 28 ERC-90, VBL, VAB

1re ARMEE
- 1re Escadrille Lgre
- 1er RG
- 13e RDP : VBL
- 6e RA (observation)
- 7e RA (CL-289 drones)
- 61e RA : AuF1, TR-F1
- 401e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 402e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 403e RA : 24 I-Hawk
- 40e RTrans
- 44e RTrans
- 54e RTrans
- 57e RTrans
- Brigade de Berlin : 1500 Men, 29 AMX-30B2, VBL, VAB

1er CORPS D'ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 8e RH : VBL, ERC-90
o 7e RHC
o 32e RG
o 3e RA : 8 Pluton
o 15e RA : 8 Pluton
o 54e RA : AMX Bitubes
o 57e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 1er RMat
o 5e RMat
o 8e RMat
o 43e RTrans
o 516e RT
o 601e RCR
Combat Units
o 1re DB: 5600 Men, 59 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 7e DB: 7700 Men, 96 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 12e DLB: 5800 Men, 44 AMX-10RC, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1
o 14e DLB: 7200 Men, 48 AMX-10RC, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

2e CORPS D'ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 3e RH : VBL, ERC-90
o 2e RHC
o 10e RG
o 12e RA : LRM
o 32e RA : 8 Pluton
o 51e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 53e RA : AMX Roland
o 74e RA : 8 Pluton
o 2e RMat
o 6e RMat
o 7e RMat
o 20e RT
o 42e RTrans
o 50e RTrans
o 53e RTrans
o 135e RT
o 604e RCR
Combat Units
o 3e DB: 6100 Men, 28 Leclercs, 25 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 5e DB: 7000 Men, 88 AMX-30B2, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 15e DI: 7800 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

3e CORPS D'ARMEE
Direct reporting units
o 2e RH : 850 Men, VBL, ERC-90
o 6e RHC
o 71e RG
o 152e RI : VBL, AMX-10P
o 3e RAMa : 24 TR-F1
o 4e RA : 8 Pluton
o 58e RA : AMX Bitubes, AMX Roland
o 3e RMat
o 51e RTrans
o 58e RTrans
o 517e RT
o 625e RCR
Combat Units
o 2e DB: 7400 Men, 82 Leclerc, 30 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 10e DB: 6500 Men, 78 AMX-30 Brenus, AMX-10P, VBL, AuF1
o 8e DI: 5600 Men, ERC-90, VBL, VAB, TR-F1

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR ANTILLES-GUYANE
Direct reporting units
o 16e BSC
o 1er RSMA (Martinique): 500 Men
o 2e RSMA (Guadeloupe): 550 Men
o 3e RSMA (Guyane): 700 Men
Combat Units
o 3e REI (Guyane) : 700 Men, 5 VAB T20, 34 VAB
o 9e RIMa (Guyane) : 750 Men
o 33e RIMa (Martinique): 350 Men
o 41e BIMa (Guadeloupe): 350 Men

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR PACIFIQUE*
Direct reporting units
o 42e BSC
o 5e RSMA: 600 Men
Combat Units
o RIMAP-NC : 900 Men, 12 AML-90, 6 MO120
o RIMAP-P : 800Men
* This command never existed and IRL is divided among the Polynesian Command and the New Caledonian Command.. Moroever, the 5e RSMA is a fictiv unit while IRL, there are two GSMA roughly corresponding to a regiment in Manpower.

COMMANDEMENT SUPERIEUR OCEAN INDIEN
Direct reporting units
o 53e BSC
o 4e RSMA: 500 Men
Combat Units
o DLEM : 250 Men
o 2e RPIMa: 500 Men

TROUPES EN AFRIQUE
Direct reporting units
o 10e BSC (Djibouti)
Combat Units
o 13e DBLE (Djibouti) : 1100 Men, 8 VBL, 9 ERC90, 6 VAB T20, 36 VAB, 5 MO120
The Demi-Brigade de la Lgion Etrangre had been reduced to 800 men but it is expended shortly before the conflict to reach its previous manpower of 1700 Men. After being sent to the Middle East, it is withdrawn to Djibouti.
o 5e RIAOM (Djibouti) : 800 Men, 14 ERC-90, 12 VAB, 4 TR-F1, 4 MO120
o 6e BIMa (Gabon) : 600 Men, 3 AML-90
o 23e BIMa (Senegal) : 600 Men, 12 AML-90
o 43e BIMa (Cte d'Ivoire) : 450 Men, 12 AML-90, 14 VAB

COMMANDEMENT DE LA LEGION ETRANGERE
Direct reporting units
o 1er RE
o 4e RE

1er COMANDEMENT LOGISTIQUE (Logistic Command)
Direct reporting units
o 121e RT
o 503e RT
o 505e RT
o 515e RT
o 525e RT

1re REGION MILITAIRE (Paris)
-Direct reporting units
o 101e RT (Reserve)
o BSPP : 5600 Men
Combat Units
o 24e RI : VBL, PVP
o 102e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

2e REGION MILITAIRE (Lille)
Direct reporting units
o 15e RG Air (Toul)
o 102e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 43e RI
o 108e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 112e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

3e REGION MILITAIRE (Rennes)
Direct reporting units
o 103e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 41e RI
o 109e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 131e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 141e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

4e REGION MILITAIRE (Bordeaux)
Direct reporting units
o 45e RG Air (Toulouse)
o 104e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 111e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 115e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

5e REGION MILITAIRE (Lyon)
Direct reporting units
o 105e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 114e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 127e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 152e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

6e REGION MILITAIRE (Metz)
Direct reporting units
o 106e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o Division du Rhin : 8500 Men, 12 AML-90, TR-F1, MO120 (part Reserve)
o 104e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB
o 110e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

7e REGION MILITAIRE (Marseille)
Direct reporting units
o 25e RG Air (Istres)
o 107e RT (Reserve)
Combat Units
o 72e BIMa
o 151e DIM (Reserve): AML-90, AMX-13, AMX-VCI, VAB

This OOB is as complete as possible and almost entirely accurate (Nevertheless, I left aside many companies). Don't pay attention to the Manpowers, they are solely mines. However, the equipments available are quite accurate I think. It is impossible to have the entire French armored force equipped with Leclerc. AMX-30B2 will still be very common and the AMX-30 Brenus will see more widespread diffusion. About tank numbers they are much higher than in the NATO book because the French Army didn't participate that much into the war, because, tank production might still be going on and because a French DB had between 140 and 210 tanks.

Most of the Foreign Legion was integrated into larger units. Then, they might have been dispatched to the Middle-East as in NATO sourcebbok. However, it is highly doubtful to have the FAR sent entirely to the Middle East (France didn't have the ships to carry them anyway). It was never intended for that and would have been sent to Germany instead (the Theater for which it was designed). Moreover, you don't send half of your helicopter force out. Instead, a large unit like the division "Daguet" sent during the Gulf War could certainly have been formed.

Last, about the DIM, they are equipped mostly with older equipments phased out from the regular units but some might have also a handful of more modern equipments. In addition, to what I indicated, they might use Jeeps (Hotchkiss made), GMC trucks, RCL guns, M101 howitzers...

Outside of the DIM, I doubt that France draw extensively on its reserve except for reinforcements. If any of you ever found the number of 22 reserve division for France, this is a false number. By 1989, they were only the 14 I noted. The mistake comes from a military administrative division that brought confusion to many translators.

France can draw on its Gendarmerie for internal security and that is 100.000 Men with an additional 40.000/50.000 Reserve.

At last, there are the Belgian units (Regulars and Gendarmerie). I'll try to figure them out.

[Mohoender]

Here is what I could find for the Belgian component. I ruled out most of the flemmish units and the two divisions are running at half their normal strength.

BELGIAN CORPS
Direct reporting units
o 1st Engineer Battalion: 300 Men, 4 M48 AVLB
o 17th Engineer Battalion: 250 Men
o 14th Anti-aircraft Battalion: 150 Men, 16 Gepard
o 43rd Anti-aircraft Battalion: 200 Men, 10 I-Hawk
o 13th Artillery Group : 750 Men, 5 M110, 14 M109
Combat Units
o 1e Compagnie d"Equipes Spciales de Reconnaissance (ESR) : 100 Men
o Chasseurs Ardennais : 350 Men
o Para-commando Regiment : 1050 Men, 19 Scorpion, 8 Howitzers
o 1er Regiment des Guides : 250 Men, 15 Leopard 1
o 2e Regiment de Chasseur Cheval : 200 Men, 11 Leopard 1
o 1er Regiment de Chasseur Cheval : 400 Men, Scorpion, Spartan
o 4e Regiment de Chasseur Cheval : 500 Men, Scimitar, Spartan
o 1st Belgian Division (Mech) : 4000 Men, M113, AIFV, M109
o 16th Belgian Division (Mech) : 4600 Men, M113, AIFV, M109
BELGIAN TERRITORIAL UNITS
Direct reporting units
o 11th Engineer Battalion: 250 Men
o 27th Engineer Battalion: 350 Men
Combat Units
o Rgiment de Lanciers oe Limbourg : 400 Men
o Rgiment des Carabiniers Cyclistes : 500 Men
o Rgiment Territorial oe Liege : 800 Men
o Rgiment Territorial oe Namur : 650 Men
o Rgiment Territorial oe Brabant : 500 Men
o Rgiment Territorial oe Hainaut : 550 Men
o Rgiment Territorial oe Luxembourg : 650 Men

[Mohoender]

I realized today that I already posted a French Orbat. Therefore, consider this one as an updated one. As a last element here is the Orbat for the Gendarmerie Nationale before the war. Overseas Gendarmerie is subject to caution with the only accurate manpower being these of Polynesia and ambassies.

GSIGN (Groupement de scurit et d'intervention de Gendarmerie nationale/Special Forces)
GSPR (Presidential Security) 80 Men
GIGN (Counter Terrorist Unity) : 180 Men
EPIGN (Airborne Squadron of the Gendarmerie National) : 135 Men

Garde Rpublicaine (Republican Guard)
Rgiment de Cavalerie : 570 Cavalry
1e Rgiment d'Infanterie : 1000 Men
2e Rgiment d'Infanterie : 1300 Men

GSAN (Military nuclear sites protection) : Manpower unknown

Gendarmerie de l'Armement (Arsenals protection) : 350 Men

Gendarmerie de l'Air (On Military Base)
North Group (HQ on BA107 Villacoublay) : 550 Men
South Group (HQ on BA106 Nordeaux-Merignac) : 400 Men

Gendarmerie des Transports Arien (On Civilian Airports)
North Group : 440 Men
South Group : 400 Men
Overseas : 160 Men

Gendarmerie Maritime (Coastal Protection and patrol)
Chanel & North Sea : 240 Men, 2 Medium Patrol Crafts, 4 Light Patrol Crafts
Mediterranean : 230 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft, 8 Light Patrol Crafts
Atlantic : 400 Men, 9 Light Patrol Crafts
Paris : 120 Men
Guadeloupe : 15 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft
Guyana : 15 Men, 2 Light Patrol Crafts
Martinique : 15 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
Mayotte : 15 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
New Caledonia : 30 Men, 1 Light Patrol Craft
Polynesia : 15 Men, 1 Medium Patrol Craft
St. Pierre & Miquelon : 15 Men

GBGM (Groupement Blind de Gendarmerie Mobile/1e Rgion Militaire)
Group 1/1 : 950 Men, 14 AML-90, 28 VBC-90, 32 AMX-VCI, 44 VBRG
Group 2/1 : 600 Men
Group 3/1 : 650 Men

Lgion de Gendarmerie Mobile (Mobile Gendarmery Legions)*
2e LGM (4e Rgion Militaire) : 1800 Men, AML-90, VBRG
3e LGM (3e Rgion Militaire) : 1800 Men, AML-90, VBRG
4e LGM (3e Rgion Militaire) : 1700 Men, AML-90, VBRG
5e LGM (5e Rgion Militaire) : 1550 Men, AML-90, VBRG
6e LGM (7e Rgion Militaire) : 1350 Men, AML-90, VBRG
7e LGM (6e Rgion Militaire) : 1900 Men, AML-90, VBRG
8e LGM (6e Rgion Militaire) : 1200 Men, AML-90, VBRG
9e LGM (2e Rgion Militaire) : 1200 Men, AML-90, VBRG
* I have not been able to find out how many AML and VBRG were in each LGM. In any case the number of vehicles was not above 15. I can't say were they will be mobilized but I found 46 Reserve Squadron of the Gendarmerie National that will with no doubt be mobilized for a total of 6900 Men.

Gendarmerie Dpartementale (Local Gendarmery, equipped with civilian vehicles. It is in organized among 22 Legions)
1re Lgion (Paris and surroundings)
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Alsace
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Aquitaine
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Auvergne
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Basse-Normandie
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Bourgogne
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Bretagne
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Centre
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Champagne-Ardenne
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Corse
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Franche-Comt
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Haute Normandie
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Languedoc-Roussillon
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Limousin
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Lorraine
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Midi-Pyrnes
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Nord-Pas-de-Calais
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Provence-Alpes-Cte d'Azur
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Pays de la Loire
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Picardie
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Poitou-Charentes
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Rhne-Alpes
Lgion de gendarmerie dpartementale - Wallonie-Luxembourg (Doesn't exist)
* I have not been able to find the manpower of the various legions because they are composed of 3341 Brigades with each one of them counting between 6-49 personnels. However, including the reserve, the total Manpower should be around 100000 with an average of 4500 personnels in each Legion. Obviously, the Legion Wallonie-Luxembourg doesn't exist but it should have been created from the former Belgian Royal Gendarmerie. Finally, if you ask yourself what Legion is covering the Flemish land, it should be the Legion Nord-Pas-de-Calais. Saarland would come under the jurisdiction of the Legion Lorraine.

Gendarmerie d'Outre-mer (Overseas Gendarmery)
Guadeloupe Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, VBRG
Martinique Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
La Runion Group : 600 Men, 1 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
New Caledonia Group : 850 Men, 2 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
Guyane Group : 800, 3 AS-355, AML-90, VBRG
Polynesia Group: 250 Men, VBRG
Ambassy Guards: 280 Men

[Mohoender]

One last thing about France and its post-nukes capabilities concern the police force (140.000 Men and Women).

I would consider them to be unreliable and corrupt with the exception of the CRS (Compagnies Rpublicaines de Securit). These (15.000 Men/no Women) are tasked with maintaining civil order and should remain loyal to the government.

[pmulcahy11b]

Speaking of nuclear warheads, do you think France used all of hers up in the nuclear exchange If not, who has control of them now

[Legbreaker]

Would France have fired any nukes Technically they're not at war with anyone....

[pmulcahy11b]

Would France have fired any nukes Technically they're not at war with anyone....

I figure there would at least be some tit-for-tat nuking.

[Legbreaker]

I can see the reasoning behind that, but wouldn't that potentially draw them into open warfare Would the French people stand for that given their otherwise neutral stance

Personally I'm all for the French getting stroppy about being nuked a few times, but there's politicians involved....

[Mohoender]

About the nukes, I would think that they are fully in control of the French government with the manpower among protection units being increased.

About their use, I think that this will be limited and will depend on whom has targeted France.

I don't see the Soviet doing it because what would be their point. If USSR hits France, public opinion will bring the country into the war. According to French doctrine. The 18 missiles on the Plateau d'Albion will be sent at a range of targets in Eastern Europe. Then, a number of SLBM will be sent at USSR itself while tactical nukes will be used in support of NATO.

If NATO hits France, I can see a limited answer by the French targeted at highly sensitive targets (may be no more than two or three). As a former NATO member they will know of targets/emergency procedures that remain remote to the soviets. That could explain why France was not hard hit.

Whatever, as France and Belgium are the lightest hit, something stop them from being targeted. Indead, given the idea that Marseille has survived, it implies that not even all the refineries have been targeted.

I also think that they might have lost a number of their SSBN but they might have 1 recently commissioned and 1 under construction. At last, they might have used a small number of tactical nukes (probaly Hades missiles or ASMP cruise missiles) during their progression to the Rhine but I doubt it as it would made France a target.

About nukes locations:
- ten ASMP on each aircraft carriers.
- the remaining ASMP will be located at the nuclear dedicated airbase (more could be in limited production)
- 120 Hads missile with 30 TEL. Out of these 30 at least will be equipped with nuclear warheads while the remaining ones carry conventional warheads (more missile under production)
- 18 S3 Missile located on the Plateau d'Albion (possibly replaced by land based M45).
- 80 M4 Missiles on the 5 remaining Le Redoutable-class (16 more might be on le Redoutable itself if you assume that the submarine was not decomissioned in 1991)
- 32 to 48 missile on the 2/3 Le Triomphant-class (I tend to assume that work on Le vigilant accelerated. After all the game has a Richelieu Aircraft Carrier that had been cancelled while the Charles de Gaulle was delayed). I also tend to consider that Le Terrible is nearing completion.

Nuclear weapons
- ASMP Cruise Missile (carried by Rafale, Super Etendard, Jaguar Mirage IV and Mirage 2000N): they are carrying a TN-81 warhead (100-300kt) with a maximum range of 400km. They can be used against ship with a range of 60km.
- Hads Missiles (the Pluton had been phased out in 1993) nuclear warhead TN90 (80kt) with a range of 480km (30 warheads have been built)
- S3 Missiles with TN61 warheads (1.2Mt) and a range of 3500km. You can have them replace by land based M45 as it was intended in 1994 (but cancelled in 1996).
- M4 Missiles with TN71 warheads (6x150kt) and a range of 4500km
- M45 Missiles with TN75 warheads (6x110kt) and a range of 6000km

[pmulcahy11b]

Well, if they still have a majority of their nukes, France sort of becomes the 1200-pound Gigantopithecus in the room instead of the 800-pound Gorilla.

[Rainbow Six]

This might have been posted before (I'm at work so haven't had a chance to review the whole thread) but in the event that it hasn't there's an article on the etranger site about the French Air Force which briefly mentions possible French nuclear strikes

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Historical/PGAA1.htm

[rcaf_777]

As for outside Europe, remember the French presence in Quebec gives them a foothold in North America, and there are also French territories in the Pacific and Going Home states that Senegal is under French control (I think). So I think the French might be engaged in a small amount of Empire building, although again on the basis of how that can best serve France.

France has the Saint Pierre and Miquelon islands which give it a foothold in North American, the islands have two harbours with larger one being on Saint Pierre which handle the ferry, a 1000 ft runnway and airport and acess to Canada through a small ferry which carrys people only

[Mohoender]

Well, if they still have a majority of their nukes, France sort of becomes the 1200-pound Gigantopithecus in the room instead of the 800-pound Gorilla.

I agree and that's why I'm having it losing a fair part of its SSBN fleet. However, after the Twilight War, using nukes might not be very high in French agenda.

[Legbreaker]

I feel that the Soviets are more likely to fire nukes at France than Nato as France were until very recent history a party to Nato. Although they withdrew, it could be argued by some in the USSR that it was nothing more than deception on Nato's part to avoid having all their forces destroyed in the early stages. This would then mean and entire nations forces could be brought to bear on the weakened Pact.

Far feteched Possibly, but never underestimate stupidity....

[Mohoender]

I feel that the Soviets are more likely to fire nukes at France than Nato as France were until very recent history a party to Nato.

If it was nuking France for the sake of it, yes. As it is to deny oil refining capability, I would say that chances are equals. Warsaw Pact might fear to have France refining oil for NATO and NATO might fear to have France sending oil to Italy and Warsaw Pact (through Italy and Austria).

The consequences would be very different as well. Warsaw Pact would use ICBM while NATO woud probably focus on cruise missile. That's up to anyone, then. The tex posted by Rainbow makes perfect sense.