Originally posted by raketenjagdpanzer
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Aliens - 1986 movie (was Dog Soldiers)
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sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
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Forward: Targan, I am not having a shot at you, I've been reading a lot of people's comments on Prometheus and there's a whole lot of haters out there. My comments are aimed at them in general.
As far as I know, Scott didn't say he had contempt for the AvP material, he just said that the two didn't mix. AvP was made simpy as a money maker for Fox, it has it's origins with Dark Horse wanting to make money out of the notion, just like the other comic crossovers like Batman vs. Superman or the old Universal Studios horror movies with Frankenstein versus Wolfman versus Dracula and so on. They may exist but it doesn't mean they are canon.
What started as a set-dressers little in-joke has been taken to heart by many but none of the film makers associated with the original Alien or Predator movies seriously considered doing a crossover. Dark Horse saw a way to make money and Fox picked up on it, it wasn't a film makers decision but a studio execs decision.
James Cameron had been working with Scott at one point to make further Alien movies and for various reasons and their other work, they didn't push ahead with it. Cameron was approached by Fox to continue the project and while he was interested, Fox wanted a money maker and suggested that the Predators be thrown in to make it more exciting.
Cameron said no because it destroys the integrity of both the Alien and Predator movies. Fox, seeing the chance to make a crowd pleaser and hence make lots of money, called Paul W.S. (Waste of Skin) Anderson in to make the AvP movie.
I've seen the first AvP movie and was not impressed, the leaps of logic and the lack of common sense displayed by the characters echoes all the criticisms that people throw at Prometheus. For example, one guy in the AvP movie decides that because (allegedly) the earlier civilizations used a decimal maths system, that the pyramid the characters are trapped in will change configuration every 10 minutes. Excuse me, what That's a leap of logic so wide even Evel Knieval couldn't cross it.
It stuns me that people will critize Prometheus because they claim real scientists don't act like that or the science doesn't make any sense or the characters did stupid things but Peter Parker can get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly climb up vertical surfaces and that's perfectly acceptable.
I work with "real scientists" (chemists, geochemists, geologists, geographers) and some of them are f**king morons, very smart in their selected field but completely stupid at real life. I've watched them drop cyanide powder and then stand around for minutes wondering what to do, I've watched them get sulphuric acid on their gloves then scratch their head then later complain that their head is itchy. Scientists are just like normal people and prone to all the same emotions and stupidities that normal people have. And in some cases they're worse.
After all is said and done, Prometheus is just a movie, not real life. It's a mythological tale of horror set against the backdrop of science fiction and it replicates, in fact parallels, the Alien movie, in some cases using exactly the same cinematography and music score. It's up to the individual what they get out of the movie but there is a lot more going on in this movie than can be seen on the surface.Last edited by StainlessSteelCynic; 06-12-2012, 08:13 PM.
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Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostAs far as I know, Scott didn't say he had contempt for the AvP material, he just said that the two didn't mix.
Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostFor example, one guy in the AvP movie decides that because (allegedly) the earlier civilizations used a decimal maths system, that the pyramid the characters are trapped in will change configuration every 10 minutes. Excuse me, what That's a leap of logic so wide even Evel Knieval couldn't cross it.
Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostIt stuns me that people will critize Prometheus because they claim real scientists don't act like that or the science doesn't make any sense or the characters did stupid things but Peter Parker can get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly climb up vertical surfaces and that's perfectly acceptable.
Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostI work with "real scientists" (chemists, geochemists, geologists, geographers) and some of them are f**king morons, very smart in their selected field but completely stupid at real life.
Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View PostAfter all is said and done, Prometheus is just a movie, not real life. It's a mythological tale of horror set against the backdrop of science fiction and it replicates, in fact parallels, the Alien movie, in some cases using exactly the same cinematography and music score. It's up to the individual what they get out of the movie but there is a lot more going on in this movie than can be seen on the surface.Last edited by Targan; 06-12-2012, 08:50 PM.sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
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SSC, I'd like to thank you for pointing out the link between Prometheus and At the Mountains of Madness. I am reading it now, for the first time, and it's readily apparent how many other authors and movie makers have drawn upon it for inspiration. I bought a big tome of collected Lovecraft stories a year or so ago, read a few of them (including the Call of what's-its-face that is so influential) and then put it back on the shelf. I wouldn't have thought to pick it up again if it weren't for you.
I don't agree that Prometheus is a b-movie. Perhaps I have a different understanding of what a b-movie is. To my mind, it's a very low-budget effort with minimal or nonsensical story and generally poor acting. I don't think Prometheus met any of those criteria.
I liked the first Predator film (now there's a b-movie, at least acting-wise), but I was 15 or so when I saw it the first time. I was 16 or 17 when I saw the sequel and I didn't particularly care for it. I also didn't much care for the third Aliens film and the fourth one, IMHO, was complete rubbish. In the right hands, I think the two universes could coexist quite well. From what little I've seen or heard, the first two attempts fell far short of the mark. I will confess that I haven't seen any of the AvP movies. Judging purely by the previews, I figured they would all be wastes of time and money and tarnish the fond memories that I have of Aliens, a film I loved as a teenager (I must have seen it at least 30 times by now), and still really enjoy.Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
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Ironically At the Mountains of Madness has been cited (in the AvP Wikipedia article) as being a major influence on the first Aliens vs Predator film. Raellus, the first Alien vs Predator film is worth watching. I remember being particularly struck by the founder of Weyland Corporation having Bishop's face (well vice versa really). That was an awesome touch IMO.sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli
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Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post...Peter Parker can get bitten by a radioactive spider and suddenly climb up vertical surfaces and that's perfectly acceptable.
After all is said and done, Prometheus is just a movie, not real life. It's a mythological tale of horror set against the backdrop of science fiction and it replicates, in fact parallels, the Alien movie, in some cases using exactly the same cinematography and music score. It's up to the individual what they get out of the movie...
Within a given film, though, there ought to be some internal logic that goes beyond advancing the plot and creating the types of scenes that define the genre. oeAvP is a perfect example of a film that revolved around creating a handful of fanboy-type scenes and shitcanned the integrity (if such a word is appropriate) of its source material by so doing. Ive always disliked the oeSuperman v Batman stories because they are more a reflection of idle discussion taken too seriously and punctuated by the occasional oeDude, dont bogart that than an attempt to tell a good story. Many of the characters of oePrometheus behave as though they are in a very different context. I would be willing to entertain the idea that the underlying message is that human beings are basically fools. This, however, seems inconsistent with the underlying message of oeAlien and oeAliens that human beings suffer as a result of decisions made by leaders who have serious flaws.
Still, one needs to get what one needs to get from a film. I love oeThe Wrath of Khan, but in reality the whole Star Trek universe is silly. The best that can be said is that a) everything shown is a metaphor adapted to its audience and b) when its at its best, internal logic is pretty good. When its at its worst, internal logic can be pretty shoddy.“We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.
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I haven't seen Prometheus yet, but I plan to. (I'm not concerned about spoilers either, already looked it up on the internet). I ended up seeing the #1 movie in America the past weekend.
Anyone here a fan of the American TV show Lost One of the creators of Lost is the screenwriter who edited the original script. If you've watched Lost, you will know there were a lot of plot twists and unresolved questions. I can see why there were a lot of mixed reviews, as I think a lot of people were expecting something similar to Aliens.
btw my comment about Prometheus being released early in Europe because of "some soccer tournament" was supposed to be a sarcastic type comment about the stereotypical American who doesn't pay attention to anything outside the USA.
-bdd
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Prometheus had much potential, and if Ridley Scott was still doing as much drugs as he was when he was making Bladerunner and Alien, it'd probably be better.
How do you throw away massive audience recognition and buy in of your visual design by saying that all the lovely HR Giger bits of the Space Jocky are his space suit, and he's really just a -Zendrati-, err, Promethian giant man thing.
Gah!Living reactionary fossil says; "Honor is the duty we owe to ourselves, and pity those who have nothing worth dying for, for what is it that they live for?"
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Originally posted by Raellus View PostSSC, I'd like to thank you for pointing out the link between Prometheus and At the Mountains of Madness...
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New Aliens Colonial Marines Video Game
This could be cool. Or not.
Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
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This is pretty neat.
Guess what? Neill Blomkamp was working on a secret Alien project that included Sigourney Weaver reuniting with Corporal Hicks, and the concept art is
Apparently, the Aliens survival-horror video game (Alien: Isolation) is pretty good. Conversely, the Colonial Marines game was supposed crap.Last edited by Raellus; 01-05-2015, 07:52 PM.Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
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Originally posted by Raellus View PostConversely, the Colonial Marines game was supposed crap.
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Good News
Personally, I could do without all the sequels after Aliens and I have mixed feelings about Prometheus and the other rumored pseudo-prequels, but I must admit that this news has me a little hopeful.
From the moment that District 9 and Chappie director Neill Blomkamp released his concept art for a possible Alien movie, we've been salivating over the
If this is true, I hope he doesn't eff it up.Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module
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Right there with you. My personal Aliens continuity has only two movies and a bunch of Dark Horse comics.
- C.Clayton A. Oliver • Occasional RPG Freelancer Since 1996
Author of The Pacific Northwest, coauthor of Tara Romaneasca, creator of several other free Twilight: 2000 and Twilight: 2013 resources, and curator of an intermittent gaming blog.
It rarely takes more than a page to recognize that you're in the presence of someone who can write, but it only takes a sentence to know you're dealing with someone who can't.
- Josh Olson
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