Aliens - 1986 movie (was Dog Soldiers)

[Raellus]

None of these things should affect the relationships between posters on this forum. Our mutual respect and long history as stalwart brothers in arms are much stronger factors in our relationship as brother cultures.

I agree. I wouldn't dream of alienating our Australian bloc of posters. You guys rock.

Having lived overseas for 6 years, I get how some people perceive the U.S. and it's a burden Americans have to bear. Like ALL nations, we've done some great things and we've done some sh*tty things. Unfortunately, those sh*tty things tend to stand out more.

I dislike stereotypes. They're usually crutches for the ignorant and small-minded. Unfortunately, they can't be escaped. I just wish that people would stop painting all Americans with the same broad brush. We're not all macho, jingoistic, boorish, materialistic, uncultured, loutes.

If someone has a chip on his shoulder about Americans, this isn't the place to to air those grievances. Like my mama used to tell me,

If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all.

'Nuff said.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I think the greatest irony in this current situation is that while some bad feeling has been generated due to the comments of some people analyzing the military (or non-military) conduct of the characters in Aliens, the fact is that Wayland-Yutani deliberately sent that specific unit to the planet with the sole aim of getting some or all of them infected with an alien egg.

They deliberately chose a unit (and it's equipment) that would not be able to achieve the military mission and while Cameron was most definitely telling a Vietnam War tale with all the badness that the Vietnam experience entails, I believe it cannot be overstated that the role of the Colonial Marines in the operation was to become infected so that the Wayland-Yutani Corporation could get its hands on what they thought could be a new bio-weapon.
The Marines in the movie were being f**ked over by big business, just like we all get screwed over by big business.
They were a disposable asset.
They were never allowed (or even meant) to achieve their military objectives so over-analyzing the personnel or their actions is ultimately fruitless - they were set up by higher authority right from the beginning to fail.

[Targan]

They were never allowed (or even meant) to achieve their military objectives so over-analyzing the personnel or their actions is ultimately fruitless - they were set up by higher authority right from the beginning to fail.

As was the crew of the Nostromo in the original Alien film. It seems that a prime directive had been secretly inserted into all the master computers in the Weyland-Yutani starship fleet in an effort to find alien technology. Of course once the Alien Vs Predator films came out we could understand why. Weyland Corporation knew of the existance of extraterrestrial intelligent life late in the 20th or early in the 21st century and then spent the next couple of hundred years looking for it off-planet.

[Legbreaker]

Alien Vs Predator - what a total and complete waste of time!

From my point of view the predator films are about as far from a canon Aliens universe as you can get.

It's a good point about the corporate meddling in the first two films and one I hadn't really thought about lately. Given the information the corporation had from the first encounter by the Nostromo and Ripley's subsequent report, if they were serious about safety, them more marines should have been sent - at least twice as many, preferably 10 times as many.

Yes, the unit had some heavy firepower at their disposal, but they also had insufficient numbers to cope with even light casualties and continue being combat effective. Gorman's tactical and strategic shortcomings notwithstanding, the lack of decent briefings and preparation doomed the mission from teh start.

On the other hand, if it had turned out to be nothing more than a downed transmitter, and a full company plus had been sent....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

...On the other hand, if it had turned out to be nothing more than a downed transmitter, and a full company plus had been sent....

The problem is though, Weyland-Yutani already knew what the likely cause was.
To paraphrase Ripley during the later part of the movie where she is talking to Burke about the Aliens, "I don't know whose worse Burke, you or them. You don't see them fucking each other over for a percentage"

[pmulcahy11b]

Gorman doesn't make every mistake that gets made. He isn't responsible for everything that goes wrong. That would be an unsophisticated approach emphasizing bombast over good story-telling. Gorman has a role to play in the story.

Webstral

Well, technically...he's in charge, so everything is his fault...so I was taught in ROTC, PLDC, and BNCOC.

[Legbreaker]

I don't own a copy of the Colonial Marines Technical Manual but I do have a copy of the Aliens RPG packed away somewhere.

Look long enough and you'll find anything online...

http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.phpt=69278&page=2

It's only a few excerpts, but it is cut and pasted word for word.

[Webstral]

Well, technically...he's in charge, so everything is his fault...so I was taught in ROTC, PLDC, and BNCOC.

I agree that ultimately the success or failure of the mission rests with the senior leadership. I'm trying to show Gorman a touch of sympathy because he is, after all, a new LT to the unit; and he can't be everywhere at all times. The whole business with an alien getting aboard the drop ship is a good example. It seems odd to me that the drop ship is sitting on the ground in potentially hostile territory with its ramp down. Shouldn't ramp up be SOP While Gorman might have the ability to check on this sort of detail, and while we might say he should have checked on this sort of detail, he is a new lieutenant with an awful lot on his mind. The drop ship crew let him down by allowing themselves to be very vulnerable and failing to prevent infiltration of the ship by the enemy.

Nevertheless, I can't dispute you that final responsibility for what does or does not happen in Gorman's command rests with Gorman.

Webstral

[Targan]

The whole business with an alien getting aboard the drop ship is a good example. It seems odd to me that the drop ship is sitting on the ground in potentially hostile territory with its ramp down. Shouldn't ramp up be SOP While Gorman might have the ability to check on this sort of detail, and while we might say he should have checked on this sort of detail, he is a new lieutenant with an awful lot on his mind. The drop ship crew let him down by allowing themselves to be very vulnerable and failing to prevent infiltration of the ship by the enemy.

Yes, yes, yes. Did I mention yes

[copeab]

Nevertheless, I can't dispute you that final responsibility for what does or does not happen in Gorman's command rests with Gorman.

I disagree. The ultimate responsibility for Gorman's command failure was Burke's greed.

[MajorPo]

Alien Vs Predator - what a total and complete waste of time!

I agree, an awful movie. I think AvP Reqiuem was pretty good though, and I think this is the movie that Targan is referring to in his earlier post. In the end of this we see an early Weyland-Yutani corp discover that alien life exists.

I thought the movie actually did a pretty good job of staying true to the feel of both Aliens and Predator franchises. It was even structured in a similar way to Aliens and some of the scenes were definitely paying fan-service to the original.

Obviously the corp knew what was going on out there when they organised to have the marines sent out. They had always wanted minimal surviors so they organised to have a small detachment (which also seemed to have a lot of discipline problems) with no chance of actually succeeding in the stated mission.

The only people who actually 'failed' to do what was expected of them were Carter Burke, who failed in getting Ripley and Newt impregnated and Ripley. Ripley was the traitorous dog who turned her back on her Corps plans and actively worked against them.

[Caradhras]

the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers 2nd battallion apparently had some use of the series Sharps Rifles with Sean Bean in educational purposes .

I remember seeing one or two of these when on exchange there at platoon seargent selction - selection course . ( Pre selection )

Selection was in Wales somewhere called the Breacons I believe .

Brecon Beacons in South Wales - where the SAS do a lot of training/selection - some bleak hostile terrain when the weather comes in.

[weswood]

I sometimes wonder how Australia is portrayed in popular American culture. I was playing Grand Theft Auto 4 the other day and in a radio advertisement in-game Australians were referred to as being "funny but militarilly inept". I was simultaneously amused and insulted by that, and it caused me to feel a bit defensive. I thought to myself "there are only 21 million or so of us and the proportion of GDP Australia spends on its military is comperable to other western nations".

There are only 21 million of ya'll Jeeze, ya'll need some more people, you want some Mexicans We got plenty to to spare here in the U.S., and you don't even have to go through the trouble of documenting them.

[pmulcahy11b]

I sometimes wonder how Australia is portrayed in popular American culture. I was playing Grand Theft Auto 4 the other day and in a radio advertisement in-game Australians were referred to as being "funny but militarilly inept".

In the US, all Australians are thought of as hot actors, actresses or supermodels who are good with a grill, making steak, or shrimp.

[Targan]

In the US, all Australians are thought of as hot actors, actresses or supermodels who are good with a grill, making steak, or shrimp.

Oh, ok. That's actually quite accurate.