OT: Women on subs

[pmulcahy11b]

...it won't take long for them to be sent to the Ranger School and Q-course. It all a matter of time.

In view of the probable existence of the Funny Platoon in Delta, I'll bet that's already happened -- or some Delta analogue of those schools.

[Matt Wiser]

There was a book a while back called Imperial Grunts (I think that was the title) where the author looked at the Army's experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He visited the 5th SFG's HQ, and found out that the SF liked having women be "attached" to their units for searching local women, talking to them (they got quite a bit of intel that way), and so on, and that the then-CO of 5th Group was already reccommending that SF find a way to get its own females, as units that had women "borrowed" for the SF complained about the poaching, and that the women were needed in their regular jobs! The females who had been borrowed, to the last woman, enjoyed their time with SF, and most wanted to join full-time, despite the prohibition. Even the current Army Chief of Staff has called for a review of the ban on women in combat units, and probably before the current president's first term is over, it will probably be gone.

[waiting4something]

There was a book a while back called Imperial Grunts (I think that was the title) where the author looked at the Army's experience in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He visited the 5th SFG's HQ, and found out that the SF liked having women be "attached" to their units for searching local women, talking to them (they got quite a bit of intel that way), and so on, and that the then-CO of 5th Group was already reccommending that SF find a way to get its own females, as units that had women "borrowed" for the SF complained about the poaching, and that the women were needed in their regular jobs! The females who had been borrowed, to the last woman, enjoyed their time with SF, and most wanted to join full-time, despite the prohibition. Even the current Army Chief of Staff has called for a review of the ban on women in combat units, and probably before the current president's first term is over, it will probably be gone.

I understand that women could be very useful at times, but I don't think them just hanging out with a Special Forces unit and doing what they do is the same thing. They would make great cops and interrogators when it comes to dealing with other females, but I can't see them carrying 150 pounds rucks. Maybe they could be used in the bravo teams, but I can't see them running around on the ground with a Special Forces A-team. As for them liking to hang out with Special Forces, well everyone does. They are not as anal and your not going to do what they do.

[Fusilier]

I think having women working besides you in a infantry unit atleast, would be dreadful. Dudes would be always trying to get laid instead of focusing at their job.

To me that sounds quite like there is a general lack of professional discipline, which isn't saying much about the unit. If that's the case, then having females in their ranks is probably not their most burning issue that needs to be addressed.

[waiting4something]

To me that sounds quite like there is a general lack of professional discipline, which isn't saying much about the unit. If that's the case, then having females in their ranks is probably not their most burning issue that needs to be addressed.

Maybe so, but all dudes talk about is sex, especially when they aren't getting any. Plus, you have to remember some of these girls that where average in the real world now can become the bell of the ball. Maybe it's just my view, because I never had to work with them directly. I stupidly chose to be part of a CJT(REALLY BAD IDEA!) and had my first semi dealing with them and it was not good. But, these people were the bottom of the barrel.
One time we had this female first sergeant call us to attention and we all burst out laughing and chuckling. Later she went around and took down all our t and a pictures. Then there was one that told people she liked getting it on with other girls, a captain and a corporal that hung out all the time until someone final mentioned it, and this one captain dressed up for the Christmas party with a outfit that showed off her tramp stamp and her ass crack. A male 1st Lt and female 1st Lt got sent home for getting it on. It was a joke of a task force, a total disgrace. More shit went on, but that will take too long to cover. I'm just saying what I have seen was not a pretty picture.

[Mohoender]

To me that sounds quite like there is a general lack of professional discipline, which isn't saying much about the unit. If that's the case, then having females in their ranks is probably not their most burning issue that needs to be addressed.

I agree to that. I also agree with W4S about the sex issue, especially as we are forced to send kindergarten kids to first line duty (no offense, I'm nearing 40 and if you were forcing me to do what these boys and girls do, I'll simply end up shooting a bullet in your back ). However, what the F... if they get laid down from time to time

The problem is when it goes too far. I have recently read that 7 women soldiers in Iraq got pregnant and were, off course, thrawn out of the army. However, I also read that the commander in chief back up and finally decided not to court martialed them and renounced to ask for prison time. That, IMO, is a huge mistake on the part of US command. As long as getting pregnant is against rules they should have been court martialed and punished along with the men who had slept with them (provided they were soldiers of course! If they were civilians, the fault lies entirely on the women's shoulders). Did I understood well or am I wrong

[headquarters]

Women soldiers

females serve along side our guys in all arms/branches in half a dozen overseas missions and in our forces on hometurf .

Sexual harassment,illegal pregnancies and failure to cooperate are minor issues if any at all .

In one engagement against Afghan insurgents a female CV-90 gunner recieved commendations for having engaged and "neutralized" 25-30 enemy.

Thats not to say there couldnt be problems - just saying that we are a western ,modern army ,we deploy to Afghanistan,Tchad,Somali waters/Aden bight,been to Iraq,Bosnia,Kosovo,kongo,Lebanon etc etc for over 30 years with women troops intermixed with the guys.

I had girlie -squaddies in two of my squads -one who deployed overseas with us .Pretty good with the .50 cal actually and the HK 40 mm GL

Yes - there were a few incidents of someone messing up with the girls in our battalion.But mostly the chicks were soldiers and treated as such -as well as acted as such.

I do realize that everyone takes different views though .I see it as working with our forces-some else might not agree when recollecting his own experiences.

[Rainbow Six]

The problem is when it goes too far. I have recently read that 7 women soldiers in Iraq got pregnant and were, off course, thrawn out of the army. However, I also read that the commander in chief back up and finally decided not to court martialed them and renounced to ask for prison time. That, IMO, is a huge mistake on the part of US command. As long as getting pregnant is against rules they should have been court martialed and punished along with the men who had slept with them (provided they were soldiers of course! If they were civilians, the fault lies entirely on the women's shoulders). Did I understood well or am I wrong

Am I following this correctly The US Army puts women in jail for getting pregnant

That surely can't be right Or have I misunderstood

[Abbott Shaull]

In view of the probable existence of the Funny Platoon in Delta, I'll bet that's already happened -- or some Delta analogue of those schools.

Oh I am sure the women of the Funny Platoon are going through some of the most grueling training to make sure they are up to it.

[copeab]

Am I following this correctly The US Army puts women in jail for getting pregnant

That surely can't be right Or have I misunderstood

Welcome to the military ...

Military justice is primarily concerned with maintaining good order and discipline. Anything that threatens those two things is punished.

[Abbott Shaull]

Am I following this correctly The US Army puts women in jail for getting pregnant

That surely can't be right Or have I misunderstood

Actually it not too far fetch in the Zero Tolerance social club of the US Army. With that aside, they tend frown upon you doing things that make you none deployable or cause you be expedited out of combat zone.

What is sad in the military all females are lump together in trying to get out of duty. Even if some of the may have sent over pregnant, without realizing or showing on tests at the time. There have been enough female troops and officers who have went out of their way to become pregnant so they could have free pass to stay home, while these women are in the minority. Yet, there enough to led some to paint with broad brush. As for the one who have gotten into the situation while base overseas, well it is one of the issues that units have to deal with.

Well as far as sex goes. Many of the women I had met in the military, they weren't actively looking to sleep with everyone. Yet, some of these issue that crop up are due to reflection of how they view society outside of the Military. It part of the culture why they have been kept out of so-called combat unit, and the t and a picture only keep the caveman mentality in some of those units.

I agree it lack of professionalism if all either a male or female troop was looking for was getting laid. On the other hand, I do understand that being human sometime you can't help/stop needs and urges with mix troops in such close quarters.

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks for the clarification guys...I can fully understand how a unit commander might be pissed off if someone either a) can't deploy or b) has to be sent home.

But to send someone to jail for getting pregnant...wow...

[Mohoender]

Am I following this correctly The US Army puts women in jail for getting pregnant

That surely can't be right Or have I misunderstood

No actually it didn't. They got pregnant while on duty. Of course, that is forbidden by the rule, for obvious reasons.

From what I understood they were thrown out and that's it (kind of in formal way). The commanding general, for a time, talk about court martialing them and putting them in jail. I agree that putting them in jail might be a little too much.

However, not pursuing them at all is as stupid. I'm more than supportive of women in armies but an army is in no way a democracy. I find perfectly understandable for women in the field to be forbidden of getting pregnant. Therefore, if they don't follow the rule they should be prosecuted as any soldiers. In that case along with the men as women hardly get pregnant by themselves. Then, I agree with rainbow, putting them in jail would certainly not be the best of choice. Nevertheless, I would find normal for the men to get some times in jail. Women in armies don't have to get a favored treatment.

However, another solution would be to allow them pregnancy at will. Still, that could quickly become a funny issue in a nuclear submarine, undersea for 6 month in a time like that of T2K.

One last think, I understand Rainbow but, in that case, these troopers are simply not doing their jobs. And I'm including the male with the female. Don't they ever here of condom, pills, abortion... Of course, they might be against these for religious reasons but, then, they belong to church and not to the army.

Here is the article

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34524436/

[copeab]

Don't they ever here of condom

Yeah, it's what you use to keep water out of your rifle barrel.

[Mohoender]

Yeah, it's what you use to keep water out of your rifle barrel.

LOL . And what you use to split that same water on the passing general