1st US Army / XII Corps

[Legbreaker]

Leg I am starting to think if someone said they totally agreed with you and you had done an outstanding job of posting information your would find something about your own post to nag about...

If we all agreed with each other all of the time, what would be the point of discussing anything As long as everyone is civil to each other there's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreement - it's healthy and promotes growth of the game we all love.

Pulling apart other peoples ideas and theories and breaking them down is a good thing. It's how we learn and improve. One person alone makes mistakes, overlooks vital information and generally has a bias towards their own way of thinking. The more people who are involved in developing an idea, the more rounded and comprehensive the result is likely to be.

The key to it all though is keeping a cool head and realising that there is no malice behind anyones comments. We're all here for the same reasons.

[kota1342000]

Kota - care to share that OoB

Yes, and sorry about that Kalos, I got put under a couple of "hurry up" loads and then had a breakdown so I couldnt get net service for a bit. This might be messy as I havent done any editing but I have to make up for not getting back sooner LOL

1st US Army
411th Engineer BDE, 800 Men, Allentown PA
The 411th is just another nearly unknown Brigade in the order of battle that may have prevented the East Coast of the United States from decades of total anarchy. Originally assigned to transportation and logistical support for movement of essential military traffic in Pennsylvania, the Brigade HHC personnel were at the Pentagon receiving orders at the beginning of the November Massacre. The Brigade XO promptly assumed command and set to work.
The Engineers first established fortified aid and recovery locations at several road junctions on Interstates 76, 78, 80, and 476, the Brigade collected as many survivors as possible and immediately instituted a food for work program to replace the collapsed currency system. Centered on Allentown Pennsylvania, the 411th doesn"t just grow crops but also groups of people that are capable of surviving and thriving in a post-technology enviorment. The Brigade runs an improvised academy to teach steam power, farming, mechanics, fishing, hunting, alternative energy, and many other skills.
This alone is a major accomplishment, but in late 2000, the 411th received orders from its parent unit the 1st US Army to disband and disperse, with no reasons given. The CO of the 411th had no intention of doing this and there are packs of rumors that it was a group from the 411th that helped re-establish the 1st US Army headquarters.

12th Corps
In addition to
78th ID (Fort Dix NJ) and
43rd MP Bde (1 remaining loyal company in sporadic contact)

428th Field Artillery BDE, 300 Men, 6 M119A1 Newark NJ
The 428th is a formation made up of returning veterans, volunteers, and lately refugees who have decided to enlist as well. They had been prepared to deploy to Europe before Norfolk Virginia was struck by a nuclear weapon, and received instructions to move north to assist 1st Army in reconstruction and recovery efforts. Their presence in south Newark had been fairly low key, and spent most of the time assisting civilian authorities until marauders got out of hand. The 428th now controls a large strip of area centered on Newark Liberty International Airport and uses the NJ Turnpike as a major supply and transportation route. Moderate battles with marauders and the occasional pirate or UBF fisherman vessel serve to keep the 428th on its toes.

25th corps
27th Infantry Brigade, Camp Johnson Vt, 500 troops
The 27th was raised from the people of Vermont, with most of the troops coming from the towns of Montpelier, Rutland, and Burlington. They have been in combat several times with New American forces operating out of Maine and are holding the line at Camp Johnson, and protecting the civilian population. They are popular with the residents, as they are making it possible for reconstruction efforts to begin.
76th Infantry Brigade, Camp Keyes Maine, 600 troops
Raised in mid 2000 from refugees from Portland, Augusta, and Brunswick, primarily out of a desire to be rid of the New American forces in the area. Since they have been raised and activated, they have anchored themselves in Camp Keyes, and range all throughout the south of Maine, waging a guerilla war against New America.
89th Military Police Brigade, Manchester NH, 600 troops
The MPs original assignment in New Hampshire was civil relief and restoring order; instead they have found themselves fighting a guerilla war with forces of New America. They have gained the trust of the population all over the state, and has built up a much larger resistance than the New Americans realize.
23rd Infantry Division (medium), Bangor Maine, 2900 troops
The 23rd was the brain child of a refugee/old soldier moving south from Maine where New America had taken hold of several communities. He was able tomake his way south to the 78th Infantry Division, garrisoning sections of New York City, then convinced the local CG to allow him to build a military unit; he was a retired Colonel in the US Army. Refugees were convinced to join from Binghamton, Albany, and the suburbs of New York. They were then trained up by a cadre from the 78th, and then members began to collect, repair, and convert vehicles into light armored vehicles resembling the M20 and M8 armored cars. They then traded some of the newly recovered vehicles to the 78th Infantry for heavier weapons to arm them, and fought their way north through marauders and New American patrols back to Bangor Maine, and threw the New American garrison out on its ear. When word of this reached 1st US Army, messengers were sent with activation declarations for them as the 23rd Infantry Division, official orders, and a duffle bag full of shoulder patches. They have been active against New America ever since.

40th corps
155th Armored Brigade, Ft Lee VA, 450 troops, 8 M60A3, 10 M48A5
Getting tired of harassment from several marauder groups, gangs and paramilitary groups, the 151st Field Artillery (Milgov) and the 184th Infantry (Civgov), both holding Ft Bragg, decided to form up another brigade out of volunteers from the refugees that were coming in as well as cadre from returning European units. Once trained and equipped, the 155th pushed up I-95 to Ft Lee, and not only cleared the I-95 corridor, holding several crucial road junctions on the way, but also secured the western flank of Norfolk, and opened up a food supply route back to Ft Bragg.
87th Infantry Division (mech), Richmond VA, 2400 troops, 6 M48A5
The 87th is composed of several hundred veterans of the European theatre who were wounded and shipped back to the states. Most of the rest of the division are refugee volunteers from Washington DC, Richmond, Petersburg, Greene, all the way west to Bedford. They took charge of the next shipment of military equipment and vehicles that was supposed to have gone to Europe before plans were drafted for the evacuation of Europe. They have garrisoned the city of Richmond, and are using the surrounding area"s resources to feed and protect the local population.
151st Field Artillery Brigade, Ft Bragg NC, 500 troops
A pre-war reserve brigade, the 151st is composed of inactive reservists who have been recalled to duty and formed up. The 151st received older M114A1 155mm howitzers, and was ordered to perform civil relief operations in the area of Ft Bragg. They have since worked together with the 184th Infantry Brigade, a Civgov unit, against higher orders in the beginning. The unit has established a firebase at Ft Bragg, and has helped support civilian recovery in Fayetteville, Clinton, Lumberton, Raeford, and Lillington. They have also helped the 184th establish forward bases at MCAS Cherry Point, Seymore Johnson AFB, and Camp Lejune.

[Legbreaker]

With the demand for armoured vehicles in Europe, Korea, the Middle East, Alaska and South West USA, how do you justify the existance of useful tanks (the M60's and M48s) and artillery on the east coast
Omega as we know required all heavy equipment to be turned over to the Germans (and I'm sure the Americans wouldn't have been able to slip even one tank past them) so I can't see them coming from there.
Anything left in the US is likely to have either been shipped overseas, or towards Texas or Alaska where there's actual fighting rather than "simple" civil disorder.

[HorseSoldier]

27th Infantry Brigade, Camp Johnson Vt, 500 troops

Is that unit in addition to the 27th Lt Inf Bde out of New York that was 10th Mountain's Round Out brigade (and which GDW has going somewhere else, I forget where)

Anything left in the US is likely to have either been shipped overseas, or towards Texas or Alaska where there's actual fighting rather than "simple" civil disorder.

Agreed.

[kalos72]

Cause a GM cant play out a mission where the party finds some recently salvaged tanks sitting inside a warehouse on some lonely port... :P

[kota1342000]

Dog, your OOB is pretty extensive but cool. Ive had game groups that would be doing the "happy dance" if they were around that much protection. The inclusion of a pair of Marine Brigades warms my heart too.

With the demand for armoured vehicles in Europe, Korea, the Middle East, Alaska and South West USA, how do you justify the existance of useful tanks (the M60's and M48s) and artillery on the east coast
Omega as we know required all heavy equipment to be turned over to the Germans (and I'm sure the Americans wouldn't have been able to slip even one tank past them) so I can't see them coming from there.
Anything left in the US is likely to have either been shipped overseas, or towards Texas or Alaska where there's actual fighting rather than "simple" civil disorder.

LMAO
I kind of figured Leg would flip out
This OOB comes from a 2001 and 2002 time period, and is actually heavily influenced by actions by player groups over the years that REALLY took things in directions that I had to "paint quickly" to keep a story in front of them, and to tell the truth the results make for good follow on material.

First, the 155th received some of their armor from a player group that truly did the unexpected and ran a salvage operation off the coast of Norfolk where several RO-RO vessels had been sunk in the latter stages of Reforger. Without going into too many details, it started out as kind of a sideshow to a main event and then really began to show results so I let them go down that track...but they paid dearly for it. Heroes are heroes because of suffering.

Second, the way I run Going Home is with a larger TF24 (I know the book says TF34, but traditionally Second Fleet designates most of their task forces in the twenties series) and I have USAEUR bringing as much of their heavy equipment home with them. Several reasons for this;

1. Withdrawal from Europe is not a de facto surrender. Nor is the US Army and Air Force in Europe going to turn in all unit colors and call it a day. Reasoning for withdrawal is stalemate in Europe, inability or lack of desire for allies to assist, and need of those forces elsewhere.

2. The thought that Germany would demand compensation for being "abandoned" is totally outrageous. After more than 4 years of conventional and thermonuclear conflict, the fact that both the NATO and Warsaw Pact sides are near completely broken should be at least some testament that American involvement helped prevent a total German collapse. Not to mention that Germany basically started the European side of the Twilight war (version 2 book).

3. With very few remaining civilian authorities left to negotiate the how and why of military movements, it would fall to General Lewis (SACEUR) to make that decision. I think there's a strong possibility that removing a large portion of heavy equipment from the theater would help to let the battlegrounds cool off enough to allow for talk to begin on doing things other than throwing lead and explosives at each other.
On the other hand, imagine being commanders of Polish, Soviet, Italian, hell...even French units and seeing the Americans hand several hundred working armored vehicles over to the German Army and then taking off. Doesn't sound like a very stable situation to me...and SACEUR is an NPC, so I run him.

Third, "simple" civil disorder isn't what I read in modules like Kidnapped, Allegheny Uprising, and especially not Urban Guerilla. New America, the Sealord of Jacksonville, the UBF Fishermen, most of the 43rd MP Brigade, the Seminole Tribes, and these are just some of the major bad guys I can think of from the top of my head without referring to any of the books. I could see a Division or Brigade commander being granted a request for available armor if the situation warrants it. By the way, General Cummings who chairs the JCS is also an NPC.

...and if you don't like it, tough. My game, and look up and to the left for the "back" button.

[kota1342000]

[QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]Is that unit in addition to the 27th Lt Inf Bde out of New York that was 10th Mountain's Round Out brigade (and which GDW has going somewhere else, I forget where)[QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]

The 10th went to Norway and later was deployed by air to Fort Greeley AK to help form X Corps. But no Horse, not in addition to; I just use the 27th as a seperate Brigade.

[Legbreaker]

I've no problem in what you do with you game, I was just interested in the reasons behind it.
Salvaged tanks from a sunken transport Not a problem (unless you though such things as corrosion and water damage into the mix )

Note the Germans were not after compensation for the US withdrawal - it was a straight trade. The US was to hand over all heavy equipment in return for the fuel they need to get home.

Everyone's happy with the result. Less mouths to feed in Europe, less soldiers to equip with limited resources, and greater capabilities for those units left on the line. Even with the reduction in overall troop numbers, I'd think the front would remain just as secure - still just as many tanks, APCs and artillery peices ready to pound any enemy offensive action.

I agree that "simple" doesn't really describe the situation away from the front lines in continental US, however the opposition the Government forces face are unlikely to have tanks and other armour necessitating the retention of tanks away from the formal warzones. It doesn't seem logical for heavy equipment to be kept in the eastern states when there's a full blown war in the south and north west in which the US forces are underresourced and being pushed back. Your explaination of a salvaged ship though does explain why there may be armour in the east.

[stilleto69]

I agree with you Kota. In my game I had JCS General Cummings & SACEUR General Lewis make a deal with the German Military Government that would remain controversial after the war. The deal was that the Americans would be allow to retain their heavy equipment in exchange for several "captured/transferred" SS-20s (4) & 2 Pershing IAs. Thus allowing the Germans to retain a viable "deterrence" against French incursions & any possible Soviet/Warsaw Pact counteroffensives.

P.S. Before any canon "nazis" go crazy, in my game not every tactical nuclear weapon (i.e. Pershing IA/II or SS-20) was used. Some are still intact in fact there are several GLCMs still in the UK (Shhh... just don't tell HMG )

[Rainbow Six]

Some are still intact in fact there are several GLCMs still in the UK (Shhh... just don't tell HMG )

I used more or less the same scenario in my UK work, with a handful of GLCM's and their crews based in the South of England...they had no fixed location (for security they move around quite a bit). The only difference was that HMG know about it and have assisted the Americans by providing a small number of British troops to act as a security detachment.

With regard to the presence of heavy armour in the north east of the US (or anywhere else for that matter), I tend to think that a lot would depend on exactly when said armour was "recovered" (e.g. if it was on a ship, when the ship was salvaged, etc). Personally I would agree that anything found up until a certain period of time - I'd say the end of 1998 / start of 1999 - would probably be transferred to either the Texan or Alaskan fronts, but I think that as you move into 1999 the capabilty to move armour across the country would pretty much cease to exist and anything recovered in the north east would stay in the north east.

[kota1342000]

I've no problem in what you do with you game, I was just interested in the reasons behind it.
Salvaged tanks from a sunken transport Not a problem (unless you though such things as corrosion and water damage into the mix )

Note the Germans were not after compensation for the US withdrawal - it was a straight trade. The US was to hand over all heavy equipment in return for the fuel they need to get home.

Everyone's happy with the result. Less mouths to feed in Europe, less soldiers to equip with limited resources, and greater capabilities for those units left on the line. Even with the reduction in overall troop numbers, I'd think the front would remain just as secure - still just as many tanks, APCs and artillery peices ready to pound any enemy offensive action.

I agree that "simple" doesn't really describe the situation away from the front lines in continental US, however the opposition the Government forces face are unlikely to have tanks and other armour necessitating the retention of tanks away from the formal warzones. It doesn't seem logical for heavy equipment to be kept in the eastern states when there's a full blown war in the south and north west in which the US forces are underresourced and being pushed back. Your explaination of a salvaged ship though does explain why there may be armour in the east.

Sorry about quoting the whole thing here; still learning the ropes with posting LOL

Oh corrosion was a very big deal with recovered equipment, and that worked out ok as a source of "busy work" for everyone.

The fuel from the FRG was the piece I forgot; knew I was forgetting something.
With my game and the way I see it, that's the weakest part of any trade. CENTCOM is pumping out fuel for military and recovery purposes, and I cant see who in the chain of command wouldn't think that moving EUCOM wouldn't be high priority.

As for the situation in the north for Alaska and the southwest, I have additional OOBs to help plug the gaps, but I also moved 7th US Army (NOTRHAG from USAEUR) to Colorado and 4th US Army to California. I haven't finished the full OOB for 9th US Army (Alaska), but heres for the southwest area, and again this is in addition to already established OOB for the area;

5th US Army

220th Military Police BDE, 250 Men
the 220th was responsible for security of the west coast embarkation points unitl the November massacre sparked large scale riots and civil unrest in the mid-west. The 220th repeatedly put down large riots in the major cities of Cheyanne, Denver, Detroit, Chicago, Albuquerque, and Dallas. The unit fought poorly during the Mexican/Soviet invasion, and currently resides near Salina KS. They are one of the least respected units; to the point that they had to become a 5th Army asset because the 90th, 110th, and 122nd Corps refused to have them under their commands.

420th Engineer BDE, 400 Men
the 420th was a national guard brigade detailed to operate with Southern Command in Panama until the Mexican/Soviet invasion occurred. They were airlifted to South Texas and performed a defense in depth using defensive minefields, and demolishing bridges across the front. They took appauling casualties, and was withdrawn to refit. They remain a 5th Army asset, and frequently operates with all Corps in the 5th US Army.

110th corps

256th Infantry Brigade (Mech) Camp Gruber OK, 500 troops, 10 stingray II
the 256th was raised from friendly civilian militia and veteran troops coming out of the hospital. Upon forming, the 256th moved forward and attacked both the Saltillo and Tampico regiments of the Mexican Army, destroying their ability to mount offensive action against the 110th corps, and helping to take pressure off of the 90th and 122nd Corps. They have remained on the front since, working out of Camp Gruber.

57th Field Artillery Brigade, Ft Riley KS, 400 troops, 22 M114A1
the 57th is a National Guard brigade that fought with distinction in Europe, but like the 631st, fell victim to a tactical nuclear strike, and was nearly destroyed. Many survivors deserted before the brigade could be moved back to the US for refit.
On arrival, the 57th was given older 155mm howitzers, and placed in Ft. Riley as a reserve group. They and the 20th Engineers were the first two units of the 110th Corps.

20th Combat Engineer Brigade (Abn), Liberal KS, 650 troops
The 20th is a curious amalmagation of combat engineer troops from recovered wounded from the 82nd Airborne, 6th Air Cav Cmbt Brigade, 173rd Airborne Brigade, and even some engineers from the Special Forces of various groups. With rejoining their units unlikely in the face of danger coming across the border to the south, they requested and granted permission to form their own brigade, which was activated in late 1998. They functioned as both conventional engineers and as sappers in combat, and worked closely with the 57th FA until the formation of 110th Corps.

29th Infantry Division (Mech), Ft Sill Ok, 2600 troops, 10 Stingray II, 6 M-60-2000
the 29th was activated by popular demand as the volunteers coming out of the occupied territories and from behind the friendly lines swelled. They were armed up with a recently acquired stock of arms, equipment and vehicles that had just been recaptured from the Mexican Army. They went fully active not long after the victory of the 256th, and moved forward in their wake, retaking Ft Sill and keeping the pressure on the Mexicans. They also faced off with forward elements of Division Cuba of the Soviet Army, and crushed the forward battalion in a surprise night action.

479th Field Artillery BDE, 450 Men, 10 M119A1
the 479th was recently reformed and given the colors of the 479th who had been vaporized by a tactical nuclear weapon in Europe. They are the most recent addition to the 110th Corps and have made a good account of themselves, to the point that they have been ordered several times to withdraw as they were close enough to the Tampico Regiment as to bring their howitzers into the direct fire role.

90th US Corps

103rd Field Artillery BDE, 600 Men, 11 M198
the 103rd had been directed to deploy to Europe, then cancelled and ordered to Iran, cancelled, orders cut for Korea, cancelled, had members pulled from the units as replacements, and when orders came up for Alaska, the Brigade CO blew up and asked if FORCECOM was actually sure this time. The next day, the Mexican/Soviet Invasion occurred, and was in the right place at the right time in Ft Hood to begin the first of the organized defense. They performed a defense in depth, using their howitzers sometimes in the direct fire with terrifying effect. The 103rd was assigned to 90th Corps along with the 49th Armored and 95th Infantry Divisions.

[Dog 6]

thanks Kota !

[HorseSoldier]

[QUOTE=kota1342000;25415][QUOTE=HorseSoldier;25410]Is that unit in addition to the 27th Lt Inf Bde out of New York that was 10th Mountain's Round Out brigade (and which GDW has going somewhere else, I forget where)

The 10th went to Norway and later was deployed by air to Fort Greeley AK to help form X Corps. But no Horse, not in addition to; I just use the 27th as a seperate Brigade.

Sorry, that sentence probably wanted to cohesiveness. What I meant is that in real life, 27th LIB was the round out brigade for 10th Mountain Division during the Cold War era. GDW has them being part of the 42nd Division instead, and I guess assumed that 10th Mtn was a full three brigade active duty division.

[Abbott Shaull]

One thing that justify it would be that the M60s and M48s were awaiting transportation overseas and never it over the pond. Much likely you would find these vehicle along East, West, and Gulf Coast with many of them in the west having been sent to California to reinforce units there....

[HorseSoldier]

Any at Gulf Coast ports not irradiated too badly would be a pretty easy haul to Texas via rail, and would have probably been sent to bolster 49th AD and other units there.