Gun questions

[kcdusk]

I normally dont get into weapon discussions. I dont know allot about them, and i really just limit myself to their game stats.

But now, i have two questions.

1) The british L85. Why does it only have a magazine capacity of 20 I thought 30 was the default amount. 20 seems kinda low for an assult rifle. Even the calibre is 5.56 - so i wouldnt have thought it was related to bullet size or anything. Anyone explain why the mag only holds 20

2) Kind of a gimmicky question, but genuine just the same. The MP-5 has always been portrayed as a superiour weapon. Special teams (SWAT) use them, they're kinda sexy. From my limted reading the weapon is reliable, a nice weight and it all helps the weapon perform "well". Yet its game stats are average, if you didnt know the names of guns, you coudnt pick the MP-5's stats off the page. Is the MP-5 all its cracked up to be And if so, which stats if any would or should stand out as being above average

[chico20854]

My understanding is that the L85 (and the FN-FNC and possibly the Steyr AUG) all were designed to accept the M-16 magazine, which is available in sizes from 5 rounds up to 100, although the 20 and 30 are standard in US military issue, the 20 much more rarely.

As for the MP-5, I think it has something to do with the sophistication of the action - its an elegant roller system as opposed to a simple blow-back system. What the practical effect is I can't say, but if game stats are based on things like barrel length and rate of fire I can see how it doesn't stand out from the crowd.

I'll wait for some of the real heavy-duty gun guys to opine more...

[Targan]

H&K weapons in general are known to be reliable and accurate. Those are the main reasons people choose them.

[Fusilier]

Where do you see that listed KC I've only seen 30 round listings... ala 30 round STANAG magazines.

[jester]

The MP-5 comes off as more accurate and reliable because of a reliable action with the delayed blowback.

And it is well balanced, can be configured in some many different ways, unlike most SMGs.

And it fires from a CLOSED BOLT position. This aids in accuracy and reliability. It operated more like an assault rifle than a SMG.

And it was bounds ahead of its day. Further, it came really when the SMG was going out of fashion. Since an Assault Rifle was a better weapons system that could do a bit more in addition to most of what a SMG can do. So, it was/is a very good design that had inovations at a time when the SMG was being phased out of most services.

Ask yourself a question, how many SMGs have been on the scene since And what was their roll and whom they were adopted by

The SMG was for the most part replaced by the assault rifle in most nations. There really haven't been any big ones since, just smaller Assault Rifles replaced them and were called Submachinegun like the AKR and Colt Comando.

But the MP-5 in my mind would have a better reliability, a bit more accurate, and a better range than most other true SMGs.

[kcdusk]

Where do you see that listed KC I've only seen 30 round listings... ala 30 round STANAG magazines.

Pretty sure v2.2 rule book has the L85 (IW) with a 20 round mag.

[Marc]

In the V2.2 rulebook, the L85(IW) is listed with a 20 cartridge magazine in the Small Arms Firing Chart (pag. 254) and in its own specific card (pag. 104). But in this same card, not in the game statistics line, but in the column just above it, it comes listed as use both 20 or 30 round magazines. So, I suppose that the L85 can use both type of magazines. I suppose the 30 cartridge version is the most used.

In Paul Mulcahy pages, (with permission ) the two versions of mag. are listed.

http://www.pmulcahy.com/assault_rifles/british_assault_rifles.htm

[pmulcahy11b]

You can put a 20-round magazine into an L-85 -- but the 20-rounder is relatively rare in military issue these days. (The last time I was issued one was in 1985 -- in the National Guard.)

[Marc]

In Spain, the CETME L Assault rifle comes with three type of mags. 10 rounds (or 12, i do not remeber), 20 and 30 rounds. But only the 30 rounds mag was normally used. The smallest was used in parade.

[copeab]

Yet its game stats are average, if you didnt know the names of guns, you coudnt pick the MP-5's stats off the page. Is the MP-5 all its cracked up to be And if so, which stats if any would or should stand out as being above average

This is largely because, at the level of detail T2K operates, there isn't that much difference between weapons of a particular caliber and type (eg, 9mm SMG, 5.56mm assault rifle). GURPS, which is more detailed, doesn't have a lot more variance.

[Raellus]

For what it's worth, I don't think that I've ever seen a picture of an L85 with a 20-round mag. I've seen plenty (like scores) of pics of what appear to be 30-round mags.

As for the MP-5, from what I've heard and/or read, it was a remarkably accurate and reliable SMG in its heyday. Now, with the 9mm round going out of fashion and newer, higher caliber SMG/carbine designs available today, the MP-5 seems to be on its way out.

[jester]

Well the MP-5 is decent for what it does. The police and special teams use it and still use it. Then again they tend to have a very specific mission like hostage rescue and similiar surgical strikes where they do not have to have a weapon that is broader in its use. And of course police are getting more and more apropriate weapons like a version of an MP-5 whatever its called in 40 S&W and .45 ACP and 10mm which are even better as they have greater stopping power and less penetration <save the 10mm> which is even more ideal for police operations.

This discussion even has me toying with the idea of a character who hefts an MP-5 as his primary weapon, its a sturdy system as long as you use it within its limits. I mean in an urban enviroment, or dense woods or similiar then I'd love one. In the open plains well I would just have to stay out of everyones range

I would think, the MP-5 for those nations who used it as a primary arm, it was issued more on par with a Carbine than a full sized battle rifle. Remember, those nations who used the MP on a large scale got the shaft when the US forced 7.62 Nato, and then after a short time we switched to 5.56. Alot of the European nations had invested in a 7.62 System mainly the G3 or the FN or a variant. And sometimes a full sized battle rifle is to much but a pistol just ins't enough. And thus, the SMG was issued. As I said similiar to the US and how we issue carbines.

[kcdusk]

So whats the reason for a 20 round mag option Seems a silly idea.

[Targan]

This is largely because, at the level of detail T2K operates, there isn't that much difference between weapons of a particular caliber and type (eg, 9mm SMG, 5.56mm assault rifle). GURPS, which is more detailed, doesn't have a lot more variance.

In 'The System That Shall Not Speak Its Name' that I use there is enough difference in the stats of H&K weapons such as the MP-5 that they are a popular choice. Mostly in the areas of accuracy, weight and the WQ (Weapon Quality) stat.

[pmulcahy11b]

So whats the reason for a 20 round mag option Seems a silly idea.

Once upon a time, when the US was using the M-14 and just introducing the M-16, they figured, "well, the M-14 uses 20-round magazines, so I guess that's big enough for the M-16." They also figured it would cut down on the weight an infantryman would have to carry, and also didn't anticipate the "spray and pray" firing that the troops in Vietnam would be using on a regular basis. So the first magazines made for the M-16 were 20-rounders -- oops, make that the first nearly 100,000. And more for foreign countries. And they still made more. And then they became popular with civilians and police departments using the AR-15.

The upshot of all that is that there are a LOT of 20-round magazines floating around in the world, and they would likely get issued out later in the Twilight War or be taken off dead enemy troops, civilians, police officers, etc. It's good to know that it will fit in your weapon.