Infantry vs. Armored Vehicles. Questions about rules.

[kcdusk]

Ibut is you use a VHF-Hi (137 - 174 Mc) or better yet, UHF (400 - 512 Mc or even 800 Mc and up), you would generally have better comms in an urban environment,
Chuck M.

I know nothing about combat, radios or electricty. But having read a few after action reports of modern day urban confilcts, almost all spoke about the difficulties of being able to stay in contact with each other or home base.

I dont know what frequency or anything they were using. But hte impression i got was that even with "the best", having regular comms became difficult in an urban environment. So while i know nothing, even the USA has struggled in modern day times. So whether a UHF would improve things or not, i dont know. But from a game point of view, having PCs out of comms for a while isnt always a bad thing :-) and seems realistic compared to real life as well.

[bigehauser]

Sorry To Get Further Off Topic

To go a little more off topic, but still have context with the original post, I am a radio man in the US Army. I have not actually done my job in a tactical environment as of late, but I will say this. Short distance, tactical radios have gotten better by leaps and bounds. So much so that there doesn't even need to be an RTO standing next to a squad leader, or does there

The problem with having outstanding small, portable, ultra high speed radios like the MBITR (link to official sale points sheet), or a prick 152 is that it tempts the chain of command to no longer assign another man to be next to a leader and hold onto the radio. In THEORY, this could be great as a leader now is just a literal push of a button away from his higher ups.

HOWEVER, in any combat operation, ESPECIALLY the deadly urban environment, a squad leader would have to, if having his hands on the radio himself, take his mind off the situation at hand-his eyes too- get on his radio, ensure it is good for transmitting, then talk to whomever. The problems with that are obvious. His reaction time to receiving contact, or something else is greatly hindered.

That is just something I wanted to add concerning comms, and radio equipment. In today's world, comms are easy to establish, but they don't always stay that way.

[jester]

One problem is combat is a chaos enviroment. And the new fangled easy to communicate equipment of today, well people as we call it in the civilian side will be stepping on one another. The ease of use of equipment means it will be used more and more, often by those less skilled and disciplined. End result alot of folks will be on the radio making it difficult to get a message out. Or for HQ to determine who is who and what info is comming in and where the event is occuring.

Also,

Inside a town or city, you will have all kinds of tall buildings and metal which will interfere with your signal. And then all the other waves out there, other radio nets, enemy nets and freqs, scramblers, electronic interference, concussions and movement will all mess with your reception. And of course atmospherics as well <remember the movie A Bridge Too Far They mentioned that> Wet climates reduce verses dry, flat and open terrain easier, built up or mountainous is harder.

And today cell phones and walkie talkies work off of repeaters that bounce the signal allowing you contact. In a combat enviroment they won't be working, however, in one game I had a radio repeater or booster in one of the PCs vehicles which allowed them to increase radio transmission capability, as well as to listen at an even greater distance.

[Earthpig]

To go a little more off topic, but still have context with the original post, I am a radio man in the US Army. I have not actually done my job in a tactical environment as of late, but I will say this. Short distance, tactical radios have gotten better by leaps and bounds. So much so that there doesn't even need to be an RTO standing next to a squad leader, or does there

The problem with having outstanding small, portable, ultra high speed radios like the MBITR (link to official sale points sheet), or a prick 152 is that it tempts the chain of command to no longer assign another man to be next to a leader and hold onto the radio. In THEORY, this could be great as a leader now is just a literal push of a button away from his higher ups.

HOWEVER, in any combat operation, ESPECIALLY the deadly urban environment, a squad leader would have to, if having his hands on the radio himself, take his mind off the situation at hand-his eyes too- get on his radio, ensure it is good for transmitting, then talk to whomever. The problems with that are obvious. His reaction time to receiving contact, or something else is greatly hindered.

That is just something I wanted to add concerning comms, and radio equipment. In today's world, comms are easy to establish, but they don't always stay that way.

A squad leader usually has his handset clipped on his chinstrap with the earpiece wedged on his ear and the mouthpiece near his mouth(go figure) .He already has his freq's loaded and, at least on the PRC 126, turns the knob a number of clicks to the required channel (a squad leader only needs a Co. Freq and Plt. Freq in combat, and usually only the latter) this requires at most one free hand. Now with newer setups(I retired three years ago) it may be a different deal. It doesn't seriously affect his job as a squad leader.....in fact it enhances it. As a platoon leader or a company commander having a RTO is more of a necessity (bigger radio more freqs and more responsibility)

[Nowhere Man 1966]

I know nothing about combat, radios or electricty. But having read a few after action reports of modern day urban confilcts, almost all spoke about the difficulties of being able to stay in contact with each other or home base.

I dont know what frequency or anything they were using. But hte impression i got was that even with "the best", having regular comms became difficult in an urban environment. So while i know nothing, even the USA has struggled in modern day times. So whether a UHF would improve things or not, i dont know. But from a game point of view, having PCs out of comms for a while isnt always a bad thing :-) and seems realistic compared to real life as well.

I've always favored something like the "Family Radio Service" (FRS) radios mixed with GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) that uses if the 462/467 Mc bands on UHF for some comms, at least in my Morrow Project games, FRS radios supplement the regular radios and are used for short range tactical comms. I think FRS came out in 1996 so in a Twilight World, it might not be as far ahead as it is now, but certainly on a technical level, doable.

Chuck M.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

One problem is combat is a chaos enviroment. And the new fangled easy to communicate equipment of today, well people as we call it in the civilian side will be stepping on one another. The ease of use of equipment means it will be used more and more, often by those less skilled and disciplined. End result alot of folks will be on the radio making it difficult to get a message out. Or for HQ to determine who is who and what info is comming in and where the event is occuring.

Also,

Inside a town or city, you will have all kinds of tall buildings and metal which will interfere with your signal. And then all the other waves out there, other radio nets, enemy nets and freqs, scramblers, electronic interference, concussions and movement will all mess with your reception. And of course atmospherics as well <remember the movie A Bridge Too Far They mentioned that> Wet climates reduce verses dry, flat and open terrain easier, built up or mountainous is harder.

And today cell phones and walkie talkies work off of repeaters that bounce the signal allowing you contact. In a combat enviroment they won't be working, however, in one game I had a radio repeater or booster in one of the PCs vehicles which allowed them to increase radio transmission capability, as well as to listen at an even greater distance.

Vehicle Mounted repeaters are a good idea to, even some police cars have that. As to atmospherics, they have an effect too. I talked to Canada on 1 watt on my walkie-talkie across Lake Erie by standing at the shore. I once picked up out local police department on UHF as far away as Canton, Ohio because of ducting in the atmosphere. Then again, you have other factors you pointed out too. Then again, it could be up to the ref if the plot requires it and it somewhat plausible.

Chuck M.

[jester]

Vehicle Mounted repeaters are a good idea to, even some police cars have that. As to atmospherics, they have an effect too. I talked to Canada on 1 watt on my walkie-talkie across Lake Erie by standing at the shore. I once picked up out local police department on UHF as far away as Canton, Ohio because of ducting in the atmosphere. Then again, you have other factors you pointed out too. Then again, it could be up to the ref if the plot requires it and it somewhat plausible.

Chuck M.

I recall at Camp Courtney Okinawa, using a PRC 67 and a mast antena they were able to pick up the West Coast United States.

Then my uncle was a HAM, they would have a routine yearly radio weekend event at a local part. and with his walkie talkie handheld sized radio and some of the other folks they with some magic that only that sort of person understand were talking with folks all over the world.


Again what magic is contained in those little boxes and the witchery they preform I know little of.