*Post*-TDM armor production.

[Legbreaker]

Speaking of the M113, I once had a group of PCs find the M113 in Grenada. After getting it running they promptly drove into the heart of the Cuban controlled area and ended the conflict.

It's amazing what you can do with just one lightly armoured vehicle when nobody has any weapon capable of stopping you.

[HorseSoldier]

Sad thing is since the war the M1 Plant in Warren, MI had been fully decommission. We are selling off our goods and not being able to replace them. Both Iraqi campaigns have give us causes to be too lax. But that is another story...

Big ticket items that require specialized facilities and equipment are a hard sell whenever they aren't running multiple shifts cranking product out as fast as possible, and global just-in-time economics surely isn't helping.

[Legbreaker]

Found this while searching around for info to help round out my proposed Australian OOB for Korea.
And yes, that really is a 25mm AA gun on top of an M113....

http://www.australian-armour.com/vehicles-3cav.htm

[headquarters]

errr..

I wouldn't write off the Japanese reluctance to deploy abroad. Look at what happened when a medical unit was sent to the middle east a couple of years ago - it almost brought down the government even though they weren't combat troops but there for humanitarian reasons.

No, Japanese troops would remain firmly within Japanese borders unless something absolutely catastrophic occurred.

This isn't to say their produce wouldn't be exported or that western units wouldn't be welcome to spend R&R in the country (while transportation to and fro was still possible).

like T2K ...

Japan has oil and food for possibly 6 months - after that its lights out and starvation. Being the only stable nation in the region it would have to aquire some petrochemicals and foodstuffs somewhere.

Its said that Japan could start today and have a weaponized nuclear device before 6 months have passed. I think they could reverse engineer and improve something like an AFV in a lot shorter time than that. As for materials - they could probably scrap such enormous amounts of metal from domestic consumer and industrial stocks that they could build hundreds if not thousands.

I dont think Japan would adopt an irresponsible stance though - they could be seen as deploying military assets to get their way. But also I think they would seek influence through humanitarian projects - like the distribution of pharmaceuticals - a commodity moreprecious than gold in T2K

-all imho h for humble as always

[Panther Al]

Found this while searching around for info to help round out my proposed Australian OOB for Korea.
And yes, that really is a 25mm AA gun on top of an M113....

http://www.australian-armour.com/vehicles-3cav.htm

Umm.... that's a stock M2HB with a flash suppressor mounted on the muzzle. You can tell because the flash suppressor is pretty distinctive, and you can see the perforated barrel support/heat jacket of the fifty just past the armour plate.

[Legbreaker]

I do believe you are correct. It appears the author of the page got it rather wrong.
It wouldn't surprise me however if somebody did try something like that. During Vietnam a number of weapon fits were tried on M113s by the Australians including multiple .30 cals, .50 cals, and even one with an M134 borrowed from a Huey gunship. This last one didn't last very long as a viable option - it was apparently like firing 10 M60s all at the one location, and a complete and utter waste of ammo (but sooooo much fun!)

[HorseSoldier]

I've often wondered why no one tried fitting the 20mm commanders cupola from the M114 armored recce vehicle on an M113 ACAV in the Vietnam era, but I'm not aware of anyone trying it. Might be because that particular 20mm gun had reliability issues, or might have been tried and I just haven't heard about it.

[pmulcahy11b]

I've often wondered why no one tried fitting the 20mm commanders cupola from the M114 armored recce vehicle on an M113 ACAV in the Vietnam era, but I'm not aware of anyone trying it. Might be because that particular 20mm gun had reliability issues, or might have been tried and I just haven't heard about it.

There were prototypes with that cupola fitted to the M113 or various 20mm autocannons fitted to several different cupolas and turrets, but none of them got into production. Some never made it past the mock-up phase. Eventually, they skipped the whole idea and went on to develop what became the Bradley.

[Legbreaker]

Personally I prefer the Saladin and Scimitar turrets as fitted to some M113s here in Australia. How can you go wrong with a 76mm cannon on an APC

[dragoon500ly]

I do believe you are correct. It appears the author of the page got it rather wrong.
It wouldn't surprise me however if somebody did try something like that. During Vietnam a number of weapon fits were tried on M113s by the Australians including multiple .30 cals, .50 cals, and even one with an M134 borrowed from a Huey gunship. This last one didn't last very long as a viable option - it was apparently like firing 10 M60s all at the one location, and a complete and utter waste of ammo (but sooooo much fun!)

Not to mention pics of M-113s mounting 106mm or 90mm recoilless rifles.

An E-8 multiple tear gas launcher, mounted on the front slope.

Flamethrower mounted, both a field expident M-2 and something FMC was playing with...

There is also a pic of a M-113 mounting a 20mm cannon on the TCs mount.

Another with a Honeywell hand-cranked 40mm grenade launcher in the tail gunner's spot.

There is also a story floating around that the 11th ACR traded for a breech-loading 81mm mortar from the Coast Guard....never have seen pics but there are so many people claiming to have seen it.

[TrailerParkJawa]

In the v1 world the M113 factory in San Jose would certainly still be in production right up to TDM. The nukes that hit the Bay Area would not damage the factory as they are too far away. The problem after the nuke exchange is now where are they gonna get all the parts, metal, etc, from sub-contractors scattered all over the country as I doubt they made everything right there on the premises.

The factory, in my mind, might still be useful though since it would have lots of tools and expertise to help turn out technicals or home brew mods. Assuming you can provide power and keep the employees from scattering to the winds.

[Legbreaker]

My guess is the factory was actually a primary target rather than the city itself. Any damage to the city would probably be either a byproduct of the attack on the M113 factory, from another warhead in the MIRV, or both.

[rcaf_777]

I looked at TACOM (Tank-automotive and Armaments Command) and I would thinks that most of it's factories would be intact since the are away from major centers or places that nukes fell, they could also some materials or parts on hand I mean are looters going to try and haul a tank tranmission or oil and gas on the site given the sitution in Twilight I woud'nt be supprised if the workforce is nearby the plants formed into some sort of State Guard or Milita unit.

Here are TACOM Major Plants

Warren, MI
Red River, TX
Rock Island, IL
Anniston, AL
Watervliet, NY
Sierra, CA

[Legbreaker]

The list of targets in the book only shows the larger nuke sites. Valuable strategic targets such as these would almost HAVE to have been attacked, and probably by something that wouldn't be overkill.
Leaving them intact is just plain incomprehensible.

[schnickelfritz]

I would agree that the TACOM sites, especially the Watervliet arsenal (manufacturer of cannon barrels) would be on the hit list. However, it is also entirely possible that those responsible for making that call were incapacitated, had enough of the destruction, or the delivery devices were destroyed. The ICBM's may have been hit in silo, gone off course, or the SLBM's tasked with their destruction may be sitting in a debris field beyond crush depth. I believe the Soviets/Russians had problems with some of their solid fuel engines (SS-24, some SS-25, some SLBM), so you could have had misfires or duds.

With that said, it's your game to run as you like. If you want your game's "devastation setting" to be "at 11", wipe these sites out too.

I look at it that if the canon material doesn't say it's gone, it ain't gone. It may not be functional (lack of materials, personnel, or power), but it isn't irradiated debris either. I point to "Lima Incident" in Challenge Magazine as an example.

My $.05

-Dave