British 7th Armoured Brigade

[Louied]

Hey James,
Here are a couple of files that might help you
The first is from correspondence with the RAC Museum and the second is RAC deployments since 1948Planned Household Cavalry and RAC Deployment as at Jan 1992.doc

uk_armdregt_deploymentssince1948.pdf

[James Langham]

Revised version - thanks for the comments. Still happy to add further changes if anyone else spots faults.

[Raellus]

Really entertaining read. Very realistic and believable. Great work, James.

[95th Rifleman]

I noticed an ommision on the attached units list. A brigade tends to get an ADA battery attached. In '96 this would of most likely been a javelin LML battery which would of been replaced by a stormer battery carrying the starstreak HVM around the end of '97 beginning of '98.

[Legbreaker]

In '96 this would of most likely been a javelin LML battery which would of been replaced by a stormer battery carrying the starstreak HVM around the end of '97 beginning of '98.

Provided production post nuke could have made this possible. I'm sure a number of units would have been upgraded, but the newer weapons are likely to see service only around the front lines.

[95th Rifleman]

Provided production post nuke could have made this possible. I'm sure a number of units would have been upgraded, but the newer weapons are likely to see service only around the front lines.

The British army only had 2 armoured divisions in 96 (we are down to just one these days as most of the old tank regimenst have been either disbanded or converted to CVR(T)s). So I think both these divisons would get priority on equipment.

The infantry divisions would of gotten the cast offs, some may even end up with the old Blowpipes left over from the 80's.

[James Langham]

I noticed an ommision on the attached units list. A brigade tends to get an ADA battery attached. In '96 this would of most likely been a javelin LML battery which would of been replaced by a stormer battery carrying the starstreak HVM around the end of '97 beginning of '98.

I had assumed that these were at divisional level and attached as required. I'll have to look at 1st (UK) Armoured as a whole I think.

[95th Rifleman]

I had assumed that these were at divisional level and attached as required. I'll have to look at 1st (UK) Armoured as a whole I think.

ADA assets are attached at brigade level in the British army with each brigade assighned an ADA battery which is then assighned as needed by the Brigade commander.

British ADA is split into two catergories. You have the Rapiers which are used at higher level to defend HQ's, depots, fixed artillery and airfields.

The second catergory is the more portable SAMs used at brigade level for defence against low flying fixed wing aircraft and rotary wing aircraft. The British use the LML system (which is essentilay 3 shoulder-launched SAMs on a tripod). However it is also mounted on the Alvis Stormer which is the version used by the two brigades of 1st Armoured.

Back in the 80's we had Blowpipe ut that was replaced by the Javelin (no relation to the ATGM). In the late 90's Britain abandoned conventional heat seeking/radar guided systems for the Starstreak HMV which fires 3 high velocity darts and relies on kinetic rather than explosive force. They are guided via a laser beam fired from the launching platform (either the vehicle, LML or the shoulder launch unit).

Some of the confusion arises as an ADA regiment is assighned at divisonal level and then split up to be given to the Brigade before being chopped up further and assighned on to battlegroups. however they operate with the brigade and battlegroups and come under Brigade command.

[95th Rifleman]

Currently the 12th Regt RA handles Air defence for the brigades of the 1st Armoured (and 2nd armoured, our cost cutting is getting bad).

In the Gulf war 10 (Assaye) battery of the 36th Regt RA was assighned to the 7th Armoured Brigade (they had the javelin during the Gulf war).

I can't find info on which battery/regiment was assighned to the 7th in the late 90's.

[Rainbow Six]

I had assumed that these were at divisional level and attached as required. I'll have to look at 1st (UK) Armoured as a whole I think.

I have a book at home (today is first day back at work after two weeks leave ) called BAOR: An Organisational History 1947 - 2004, which is extremely detailed down to Battalion level and including Signals, Logistics, etc, so can post a full orbat for the 1st (UK) Armoured when I get home later. RAC Regiments / Infantry Battalions would vary due to Arms Plotting but it would give an idea of what the Division would look like.

[Rainbow Six]

Source for this material (with the exception of the TA) is The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after): An Organisational History 1947 - 2004 by Graham Watson and Richard Rinaldi. RAC, RA, and Infantry Regts / Bns assigned at any given time varied due to Arms Plotting.

1st (UK) Armoured Division, 1989 - 1992

1st Armoured Division HQ and Signal Regiment - Verden

1 x Armd Recce Regt - Wolfenbuttel (CVR(T))

3 x Royal Artillery Field Regts - Hohne x 2 (1 x M109, 1 x Abbot), Osnabruck x 1 (M109); Osnabruck Regt assigned to Close Support 12th Armd Bde, Hohne Abbot Regt assigned to 22nd Armd Bde, Hohne M109 Regt assigned to 7th Arm Bde

10th Air Defence Battery RA - Hohne (Blowpipe)

21 Engineer Regt, RE (1, 4, 7 Field Sqns and 45 Field Support Sqn) - Nienburg

1st Regt Army Air Corps (651, 652, 661 Sqns) - Hildesheim

1st Armd Dvn Transport Regt (2, 4, 33 Sqns and 74 HQ Sqn) - Bunde (merged into 1st Regt RLC after Options For Change)

1st Ordnance Bn, RAOC - Location unknown (merged into 1st Regt RLC after Options For Change) (Location may have been Verden)

1st Armoured Dvn REME (7 and 12 Workshops REME) - Location unknown (merged into 1st Bn REME after Options For Change) (7 Workshop may have been at Fallingbostel and 12 at Osnabruck)

1st Armoured Dvn RAMC - Location unknown (May have been Hohne)

7th Armoured Brigade (2 x Armd Regts (MBT), 1 x Infantry Bn (Warrior))

HQ and 207 Signal Sqn - Soltau
1 x Armd Regt - Soltau
1 x Armd Regt - Hohne
1 x Inf Bn - Fallingbostel

7 Armd Bde would also be reinforced by one light role TA Bn (4th Battalion, Royal Green Jackets)

12th Armoured Brigade (1 x Armd Regt (MBT), 2 x Infantry Bn (Warrior))

HQ and 212 Signal Sqn - Osnabruck
1 x Armd Regt - Osnabruck
1 x Inf Bn - Osnabruck
1 x Inf Bn - Osnabruck

22nd Armoured Brigade (2 x Armd Regt (MBT), 2 x Infantry Bn (Warrior)

HQ and 201 Signal Sqn - Hohne
1 x Armd Regt - Hohne
1 x Armd Regt - Hohne
1 x Inf Bn - Fallingbostel
1 x Inf Bn - Celle

Several sources also state that the three TA Para Bns (4, 10, and 15 Para) would be assigned to 1st Armoured Dvn as Division Troops.

As best as I can tell the basic structure remained relatively unchanged until the end of 1992, when Options for Change caused major restructuring

Hope this helps...I think there would have been an RMP Provost Company as well but can't confirm which.

[Rainbow Six]

I can't find info on which battery/regiment was assighned to the 7th in the late 90's.

I could only track down down one Regular Battery tasked for air defence for the entire 1st Division but there were a number of TA Air Defence Battalions which were definitely tasked with reinforcing BAOR in time of War so I think it's possible that one of them could have gone to each Division to provide additional ADA, although I can't confirm that 100%.

[95th Rifleman]

I could only track down down one Regular Battery tasked for air defence for the entire 1st Division but there were a number of TA Air Defence Battalions which were definitely tasked with reinforcing BAOR in time of War so I think it's possible that one of them could have gone to each Division to provide additional ADA, although I can't confirm that 100%.

Yeah, all i could find was pretty much the same. It seems that post-gulf war, the TA regiments where given the ADA role and apparently would be assighned to brigades on deployment.

[natehale1971]

Would any of our british members be willing to help me with an article i'm writing for my Twiligth 2000 project

I need some help with describing the British Armed Forces in my setting, that instead of the drawdowns in 1992... the expansion of the Cold War had caused somewhat of an expansion. That including new military production industry (for domestic consumption and export to the other British Commonwealth of Nations members).

And once the war started, the recreation of the Home Guard as the Territorial Army was being moblilzed for deploment overseas to support an expanded Regular Army that saw many regiments that had been disbanded being reconstituted...

All the things I've found online has been kind of confusing, and i really would like someone who knows about the subject to help me with my writing so it's not so blantantly obvious that i have no idea what i'm talking about.

[Louied]

In 1989 there were three seperate AD Bty.'s, one to each Ard. Div. Each consisted of a Bty. HQ and three Troops each with two sections of six Javelin/Blowpipe launchers, for a total of 36 launchers & 36 Spartan APC's (personnel total was 5 officers & 131 OR's). Basically, equipment wise, making it almost a regiment without the overhead.
- 10 (Assaye) LAD Bty.
- 21 (Gibraltar 1779-83) LAD Bty.
- 46 LAD Bty. (Lloyd's Company)

Additionally there were four tracked Rapier Bty.'s of 12 Tracked Rapier fire units each (two Bty.'s each to the two Corps AD Rgt.'s) which in wartime would be assigned one to each Ard. Div plus one as a Corps Reserve.