Alternate British Armed Forces stuff...

[Louied]

Agree with Fusilier, not likely to raise the cap in peacetime. I believe the main reasons are that it would seem to be an army of "mercenaries" & it would let the government be more inclined to use the army when the troops & their families are not voters !!!
However once the balloon goes up all bets are off. If you read any of Patrick Delaforce's books you see that the British Army had many other nationalities. IIRC some that spring to mind are an American who enlisted in 1940 that was an Officer in the Hant's by '44. A number of Belgians in Bn.'S of the KRRC & RB. What really struck me was what seemed a whole Recce Plt. Of Eastern Europeans (I forgot which regiment).
As for the Commonwealth Rhodesian, South African, Australian, & New Zealanders served in RAF squadrons. While Irish from the Republic enlisted in their thousands for all 3 services.
Besides remember a couple of years ago when the POW suggested a Sikh regiment but was shot down by the PC crowd.

[Tombot]

I loved it. It gave me the inspiration to star myown T2k novella.

Thats cool Nate. When is it done Come on man, show it - and bring some of your
art along, as well! (Wanna read more good T2k stuff!)

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Does the British Armed Forces still recruit from the Commonwealth nations not recuirt troops to the Canadian Army, or Austrialian Army or Kenyan Army... but recruit them for the British Army itself

the reason I am asking, is that we know that the British recruits the Ghurkhas... couldn't the British also be using a similar program to recruit from the Commonwealth states

Recruits would gain dual citizenship status (Citizenship from their home country and British Citizenship) for their service

Quick answer: No
The Ghurkas are a special case, it's a hold-over from the days of the British East India Company and just as much a reward for Ghurka loyalty as it is for any military benefit to the UK.

As I understand it, the UK does not actively seek recruits from former British Commonwealth nations but they are not discouraged from applying.
Any personnel recruited from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Fiji, Kenya, Hong Kong or any other former British Empire nation/protectorate for the British military would join as a member of the British forces but as individuals joining the British military, not as large groups and certainly not as distinct units like the Ghurkas do.

Like New Zealand, Australia would be very unlikely to take over from British Far East and Near East formations. We simply do not have the manpower.
We had less than 20 million people as of 2006 for a standing army of approximately 30,000 personnel with approximately 17,000 reservists. So from that 47,000 you're probably realistically looking at approximately 12,000 actual combat personnel.

Unless there was a direct (and directly Australian) military/political need for Australian forces to relieve British forces in the Far East/Near East, it would be highly unlikely to occur no matter what else was happening on the world stage - we have too small a military with too large a country and too small a population for raising the taxes required for such an expansion.

Recruiting to enlarge the military would face all the problems that are being discussed for the British military in this thread but Australia faces a worse situation because we have a far larger country to cover and one of the longest coastlines of any nation on the planet (we're ranked 7th in the world being beaten by Japan, the Philippines, Russia, Greenland, Indonesia and Canada in the number one position).

A lot of our revenue is raised from exports. Once worldwide trade is impacted by a global war and we can no longer safely make money from shipping goods to other countries, we would have drastically less money available for enlarging our military.

The military could be enlarged by aggressive recruiting but like any Western nation, there are too many needs for personnel in civilian occupations and so the recruit base is going to be very small to start with and funding would have to come from elsewhere in the budget, something certain to make it unpopular with the civilian population. And with less money available we would have even less chance to build up the higher tech side of the military e.g. armoured, air defence and so on.

[Fusilier]

How so what caused the capping the number at 10%

In addition to the good answers given above, I think it also has to do with foreign employment. All governments are like this. I mean just the other day I was reading how people were upset that Obama was driving around in custom bus that was manufactured in Canada. Why employ foreigners when people at home live on welfare and can't get a job I think some criticism would come from that angle.

Checking into it, another reason seems to be people worried about diluting the military, and thus potentially endangering the customs and traditions of the service. It can also be see as embarrassing - "We need foreigners to man our ranks" kinda deal.

And finally, in my experience, the idea of arming foreigners is the last thing a government allows (impossible for people without citizenship to own firearms for example). This mostly applies to civilians, but I think it can extend to the military as well.

I guess my point is, it would be a hard sell by politicians who want to be reelected to deal with the many criticisms of opening up the military to foreigners.

[James Langham]

In addition to the good answers given above, I think it also has to do with foreign employment. All governments are like this. I mean just the other day I was reading how people were upset that Obama was driving around in custom bus that was manufactured in Canada. Why employ foreigners when people at home live on welfare and can't get a job I think some criticism would come from that angle.

Checking into it, another reason seems to be people worried about diluting the military, and thus potentially endangering the customs and traditions of the service. It can also be see as embarrassing - "We need foreigners to man our ranks" kinda deal.

And finally, in my experience, the idea of arming foreigners is the last thing a government allows (impossible for people without citizenship to own firearms for example). This mostly applies to civilians, but I think it can extend to the military as well.

I guess my point is, it would be a hard sell by politicians who want to be reelected to deal with the many criticisms of opening up the military to foreigners.

I plan to include a large number of Irish nationals that travel north to join the British Army who are in a huge moral dilemma when the South invades the North... Those in the UK are likely to be interred but those in Germany (or further afield) may have the option of still fighting.

[dude_uk]

I've been tardy posting the ORBAT. Hopefully this weekend since I'll be riding out Hurricane Irene I'll have time to send the draft out. I have to thank Rainbow for all his ideas, insight, and overall outstanding help as it fleshed itself out. I am also working on the IRL ORBAT of BAOR for June 1989, with all attached TA units. I've pretty much have everything down just a matter of typing it in. The only part that might still be "in progress" is the RE section. The official history of the RE vol. XII was supposed to be out this year covering 1980-2000 but it was put back to 2012. Also planning on (in the long term) doing a lineage book on TA units from 1908-2008.

A complete UK ORBAT for twilight Will it Include all those hard to find support units pre options I shall look forward to this coming bank holiday weekend.

I am still working on my complete UK ORBAT for June 1997 amongst other things.Doing the artillery at the moment and trying to work out if i get away without raising any more artillery units.

[James Langham]

A complete UK ORBAT for twilight Will it Include all those hard to find support units pre options I shall look forward to this coming bank holiday weekend.

I am still working on my complete UK ORBAT for June 1997 amongst other things.Doing the artillery at the moment and trying to work out if i get away without raising any more artillery units.

Great minds think alike, still working on mine...

Currently I have it at January 2001 before I start amalgamating and re-rolling units.

Can anyone see any new niches for units I have converted some units to NBC and added rehabilitation and demobilization units.

[natehale1971]

With how bad things are... demobilization might not be the best course of action right away. From what i've been told, Regiments in the British Army are drawn from various UK regions. Having these units 'garrisoning' their home town areas might allow for the reconstruction to go much faster with more central planning.

[dude_uk]

Can anyone see any new niches for units I have converted some units to NBC and added rehabilitation and demobilization units.

Training cadres Regiments becoming responsible for own their own training

Certain areas are going to need garrisons.

But of course the main thing once you have pacified all the marauders, outlaws and 'false presidents' is having them helping in the fields to bring the harvest in. Or would the army be exempt to keep morale high.

[James Langham]

With how bad things are... demobilization might not be the best course of action right away. From what i've been told, Regiments in the British Army are drawn from various UK regions. Having these units 'garrisoning' their home town areas might allow for the reconstruction to go much faster with more central planning.

Being realistic, can the UK afford all of the troops Certain units are not going to be necessary - electronic warfare, much of the artillery, air defence and heavy artillery for example. Also many service personnel are going to be unfit for service (blinded, missing limbs, etc) - these can be demobilized into jobs they are capable of. Some servicemen/women can also be converted into civil servants.

How many troops do you really need Until you reach Scotland (and possibly Wales) you are not going to meet significant conventional forces. A better model might be part time soldiers protecting their local area behind your borders with rapid response troops (similar to the late Roman Empire). I would also guess that non-violent methods would be the preferred option for reunification (e.g. trade, bribery (e.g. well if you join us we will need an MP until we can sort elections...), better standards of living). Very much the Roman or ink blot methods of gaining control.

Whilst at the start of the war troops would be very tied to locations, after four years of war this will be FAR less important when assigning troops (compare 1917 and 1944).

It helps that I partially envisage a Roman type demobilization - here's your land now go farm and protect it...

[Rainbow Six]

Great minds think alike, still working on mine...

Currently I have it at January 2001 before I start amalgamating and re-rolling units.

Can anyone see any new niches for units I have converted some units to NBC and added rehabilitation and demobilization units.

REME and Signals bods could be formed into salvage teams...so could surplus RAF and RN personnel.

Pioneer Corps would probably need to be expanded as well...

[Rainbow Six]

Until you reach Scotland (and possibly Wales) you are not going to meet significant conventional forces...

Unless the Scots and the Welsh form a Celtic alliance and invade England first...

[James Langham]

Unless the Scots and the Welsh form a Celtic alliance and invade England first...

Being Welsh... :-)

Not enough troops to do it (even with the Welsh having the Gurkha Coy from Brecon - that may confuse a few characters when they meet them!).

[James Langham]

REME and Signals bods could be formed into salvage teams...so could surplus RAF and RN personnel.

Pioneer Corps would probably need to be expanded as well...

There is (or at least was) actually a REME unit with salvage in mind - I have expanded this.

[Rainbow Six]

Being Welsh... :-)

Not enough troops to do it (even with the Welsh having the Gurkha Coy from Brecon - that may confuse a few characters when they meet them!).

Cymru am Byth...