What to do with the 43,000 troops and dependents from Going Home?

[Targan]

I've now mostly completed my own index of the T2K articles contained in Challenge Magazine issues 51 to 77. I'll probably eventually include issues 25 to 50 because my index is a bit more comprehensive that the one contained in Challege issue 50 (I've included columns for a basic outline of the topic of the article, the type of article it is such as mini-module or new equipment for instance, and whether it's for T2K, Merc: 2000 or both, as well as issue number and page number).

The mini-module Westward Ho! in Challenge #57 is about a MILGOV-sponsored migration of the population of Jamesville, Kentucky to the outskirts of Memphis, Tennesee. So obviously during 2001 MILGOV was prepared to help move fairly large numbers of people around, for the purposes of consolidating and protecting loyalist populations (and moving people to areas where it is easier to feed them). I could definitely envisage arrangements whereby troops debarking in Norfolk might be encouraged to join local security forces (militia/police/sheriff's departments etc) engaged in protecting such movements of people, especially if the people being moved were from the same home areas as the troops being demobbed.

The mini-modules The Lima Incident (Challenge #56) and A Little Recon Mission (Challenge #58) are linked and are set in Ohio. They involve the PCs being formed into a Special Operations Group by CIVGOV. In the first adventure the PCs are tasked with securing a very valuable prize in Lima, Ohio. In the second the PCs are sent to infiltrate Wright-Patterson AFB to gather intel on a MILGOV operation in Kentucky (also with a valuable prize at stake). I won't reveal the goodies in either adventure in case players read this (and I don't know how to set up spoiler commands in this forum!).

[pmulcahy11b]

I don't see them being tossed out on their ear. The members of the military, however, will probably find out when they get to Norfolk that there is no discharge awaiting them -- they've been indefinitely Stop-Lossed. Many won't happy with that and there will be a rash of desertions -- and those will be written off as a loss. There will be a hard press, especially with troops that have dependents, that staying with the military will be the best way to take care of themselves and dependents, and to a large extent, that will be true. That press will start off almost immediately upon leaving Bremerhaven; the interior walls of the ship will have a lot of posters and notes to that end, and they'll hear a lot of counseling to that end.

[ArmySGT.]

I can't see Amtrak being much of a resource, as much as I love trains. If the infrastructure were still in good shape and there was fuel, sure. The railnet may be one of the first things to try to get running, IMO. What I can see would be big road convoys moving along the interstates to get to states further west. If someplace is not under control, then it might have to get bypassed.

While Amtrak is a craptastic .gov entity it rents time on the rails as those are private property. Even though a large rail hub may be nuked out of existence, there are all sorts of side lines that branch around a service small communities especially farm.

Alot of Rail road equipment and infrastructure will survive too as it is based in small towns too.

Rail would jump at the chance to become a people hauling entity again. There is something like 40 passenger cars in Puelbo sitting on a siding as it is not lucrative enough to run them.

The is even an operating Steam Locomotive that runs just for fans, the Toltec - Cumbres line.

[Legbreaker]

One of the main reasons I can see Milgov bringing people home for is to increase their legitimacy. 43,000 people who owe their lives to Milgov is a LOT of votes and they can count on about 99% of them should they be needed.

While it's true many of the troops will be retained in service, does the military really want to remain responsible for the crippled What about the civilians and the foriegn nationals Does the military really want to hang onto people who no longer have a military value such as UAV pilots Some yes, but only the best of them.

Milgov also can't feed that many people, and certainly can't transport them to Texas or Alaska where the war continues on a low level. Demobilisation in my mind is a better option than trying to hold on to everyone and instead loosing them all the desertion. Demobilisation strips away all the items of military value, desertion is a complete loss.

Many veterans will be happy to jump at demobilisation too. They've been fighting for roughly five years, most without visiting home even once, and none with a word from their familiy in years. Staying in the military and being ordered to go places and do things they really don't want to do isn't going to hold a lot of attraction when they have no idea if home is still in one peice of a smouldering crater.

[Webstral]

Chico and the DC Group addressed the demobilization issue essentially by claiming it wouldn't happen. We've had lengthy discussions about characters' motivations for staying versus leaving. We need to bear in mind that there is no precedent for the circumstances US military personnel find when they get home. Crispy as these critters are likely to be, they aren't going to get out of the service, go home, and sit by the window and drink for a year. As the first sergeant in the v1 rules remarks, this is worse than the A Shau (sp) because this is everywhere. Where exactly do the demobilized types think they are going to go, and how exactly do they think they are going to get there

All that said, I could see Milgov offering transport to New Jersey (thanks for bringing that up). Tens of thousands of relatively young and fit Americans who possess a variety of skills desperately needed by the society have a value beyond calculation. Let's be honest, too: the ones who do get out can expect to be drafted into the local militia wherever they go.

Paul, I agree that the propaganda machine will be working overtime to get as many to stay as possible. These people are gold. Thomason of Fort Huachuca would love to get his hands on five hundred of them, but even I cant imagine any way for that to happen. Deserters from Division Cuba have a better chance of reaching southern Arizona than OMEGA troops.

One of my inspirations is the soldier colonies the Romans used to pay off their veterans: you get land, but promise to keep your arms clean in case we need you (or your son, as the case may be).

Essentially, this means being oedemobilized into a reservist. This could be an okay deal. The chance to find a place in a surviving Milgov enclave, meet a woman, and worry about mundane things like getting enough to eat might be very attractive to veterans from Europe.

The idea of transporting veterans from Europe, addressed here and there in Howling Wilderness, brings up some questions. We know from Howling Wilderness that some veterans reach 78th ID in New Jersey. We know some reach the Milgov command along the middle Mississippi. This fact rather strongly implies that the Navy still has some ability to move men and supplies along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards. Ive always felt that the description of movement to New London, CT in The Last Submarine was overly dramatic. Fuel oil for small warships might be short, but surely the Navy would have gotten in the habit of oedrafting sailing vessels of all sizes fairly promptly after the TDM. Dropping a dozen men along the coast cant be that hard for a sailing vessel (depending, of course, on the coast in question).

The foregoing makes me think that the Navy must be maintaining a number of its bases along the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts as defended way stations, if we are to believe that traffic from Norfolk can reach Arkansas with any degree of reliability. There are some interesting implications in all of this. The Sea Lord of Jacksonville seems that much more of a problem in this light. He who can interdict sea traffic between the mid-Atlantic states and the Gulf is in a position to very seriously affect the future of the nation. Hm. Traditionally, Ive thought of the Sea Lord as an interesting creation of no real consequence. Suddenly, Im seeing him as a major threat in need of being dealt with. Perhaps we know what the first mission will be for those Omegamen who stay in the service.

[Targan]

Will it be 43,000 people dropped off in Norfolk anyway I can't remember off-hand whether that figure is the total shipped out of Bremerhaven (I'm pretty sure it is) or the total number that arrives at Norfolk. Somewhere in canon I'm pretty sure it says that many thousands of the TF34 troops are diverted to the Middle East theater as reinforcements. Also there would probably be small sub-convoys sent immediately out from Bremerhaven to bring reinforcements to some of the MILGOV enclaves up and down the east coast of the US.

Another subgroup of the returning troops that need to be considered are those who wish to remain as soldiers fighting for the US, but want to do it under the control of CIVGOV. Admittedly, most troops serving overseas would have had very little accurate information about the MILGOV-CIVGOV split. More information would be available once they got back to the US but it would be heavily skewed by MILGOV propaganda. Still, some service men and women would have deeply held ideological or political reasons for wanting to defect to CIVGOV. No doubt MILGOV authorities in Norfolk would have programs in place to dissuade returning troops from taking such a course.

[Legbreaker]

6,000 went directly to the middle east as reinforcements. Chances are they went directly there without going any further west than Wales.
My guess is that of the remaining numbers, there's no way they'd all be landed at the same location. The bulk of say 75% may have, but those units listed in canon as receiving reinforcements were probably the "port of first call" for those troops.
I believe Going Home states there was enough fuel for a one way trip (could be wrong on that) and the ships engines would be effectively ruined by running on the crude, which to me means most of the organisation about who was going where occurred back in Germany. It seems unlikely everyone would go to Norfolk only to be processed and re-board ships with limited to non-existent fuel for another port. Just considering food and shelter requirements for so many people in one previously nuked place puts that idea firmly into the realm of fantasy.

[Targan]

The idea of transporting veterans from Europe, addressed here and there in Howling Wilderness, brings up some questions. We know from Howling Wilderness that some veterans reach 78th ID in New Jersey. We know some reach the Milgov command along the middle Mississippi. This fact rather strongly implies that the Navy still has some ability to move men and supplies along the Atlantic and Gulf seaboards. I've always felt that the description of movement to New London, CT in The Last Submarine was overly dramatic. Fuel oil for small warships might be short, but surely the Navy would have gotten in the habit of "drafting" sailing vessels of all sizes fairly promptly after the TDM. Dropping a dozen men along the coast can't be that hard for a sailing vessel (depending, of course, on the coast in question).

Once again I direct your attention to the mini-sourcebook A Rock in Troubled Waters in Challenge Magazine issue #42. It talks directly and in some detail about these issues, including land routes being used by MILGOV to move troops and materiel between Norfolk and the New Jersey enclave, and what fighting vessels MILGOV regularly operates up and down the east coast post-OMEGA.

It's a wealth of information on how MILGOV on the east coast organises things. There is some really good, specific info on the New Jersey enclave controlled by the 78th ID and also on the (really quite powerful) MILGOV assets operating out of Cape May Naval Base (formerly a USCG facility). The New Jersey State Militia is quite a powerful force and A Rock in Troubled Waters has pretty good descriptions of its size, capabilities and component units. The NJSG even has an armored rapid reaction force, the 2nd Cavalry Squadron, NJSG, 50 troopers operating 10 armored bank trucks. The article says "Under New Jersey law all males between the ages of 17 and 25 are liable for service in the state reserve militia, in the event the Governor declares an emergency. The NJSM will under no circumstances venture outside the state".

The Cape May Naval Base is an amazing hub of military might (from a T2K 2001 perspective). It would take me too long to manually type it all out here but let me give you some examples of the resources the MILGOV commander at Cape May has at his disposal:
* The USS Hyman Rickover (formerly the barkentine Gazela of Philadelphia, a sailing vesel with 3 tons of cargo capacity and mounting a 3"/54-cal pedestal-mounted deck gun, 2 x .50 cal HMGs, 2 x Mk19 AGLs and 2 x 81mm mortars;
* USS Bigelow (DD942);
* USS Confidence (WMEC 619);
* 1 X ocean going tug, 4 x inshore patrol craft (PCF), 2 x Cape May/Lewes ferries, 2 x LCM 6 (expedient monitors each armed with 1 x forward turret containing twin-20mm Vulcans, a 20mm or 25mm AC and a Mk19, a midship weapons "bucket" containing an 81mm mortar and a pair of 7.62mm MGs, and a rear turret armed with either twin .50 cal MGs or a 5.56mm minigun/Mk19 combo), 2 x LCM 6 (expedient armored troop carriers), 8 x patrol boats riverine (expedient, 4 with sail/motor and 4 with motor);
* 1 x 10,000-ton tanker (immobile);
* The Red Dragons, a mercenary group of 100 Chinese-American refugees who were formerly a Philadelphia street gang, trained by a cadre of ex-military members (this group is fiercely loyal to the Naval Commander at Cape May and are used as an amphibious strike group);
* Piseck Commando, 18 ex-SWAT members from the Philadelphia and New Jersey State Police (deployed as an amphibious commando unit reporting directly to the Naval Commander at Cape May);
* 301st Independent Battery, 80 ex-military "graybeards" recruited from among refugees who operate 3 x M202 howitzers and 6 x 120mm mortars salvaged from NG and AR armories (provides fire support for CMNB);
* B and C Flights, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 3 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes each rigged with a 7.62mm MG and 2 x Bell 47G (ex-cropduster) helicopters (it specifically states there is sufficient fuel to fly these aircraft for critical support missions) operating out of CMNB;
*HQ and A Flight, 112th Naval Aviation Squadron operating 2 x P-3 Orions and 2 x O-2 Cessna twin engine spotter planes (the P-3s are unable to fly due to a lack of fuel but are in flyable condition).

I haven't included the extensive regular and militia ground forces at the CMNB commander's disposal.

[Targan]

I believe Going Home states there was enough fuel for a one way trip (could be wrong on that) and the ships engines would be effectively ruined by running on the crude, which to me means most of the organisation about who was going where occurred back in Germany. It seems unlikely everyone would go to Norfolk only to be processed and re-board ships with limited to non-existent fuel for another port. Just considering food and shelter requirements for some many people in one previously nuked place puts that idea firmly into the realm of fantasy.

It's true that there is very little fuel available for the larger naval vesels post-OMEGA. As well as USS Bigelow at CMNB, MILGOV operates USS Mamley (DD940) and USS Blandy (DD943) out of Norfolk post-OMEGA but A Rock in Troubled Waters does specifically state that they rarely put to sea due to a lack of fuel.

[Webstral]

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like Im patting myself on the back, its remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I dont feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but its clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidons Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

I love the detail Ive read so far. I love the thought process. I love that GDW has differentiated so distinctly between locales. New Jersey is a natural place for a large slice of the Omegamen to go.

Regarding shipping, Im inclined to agree that dropping in excess of 40,000 troops in Virginia Beach over the course of a week may strain local supply. On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

Here I go referring to my own work again One of my struggles with Poseidons Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (oeRifle River). Very specifically, Ive had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. Its only years after I started writing Poseidons Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

[Legbreaker]

On the other hand, I wonder how much planning really is going to get done in Germany. The units that arrive early can be sorted. The folks that show up late Well, I suppose the folks who show up late just get sent to eastern Virginia for sorting later. The troops who arrive in a timely fashion may have the luxury of being grouped by destination.

I'd say a fair bit of planning will already have been done. I'm sure much of the organisational work will have commenced months before the order was broadcast across Europe (ok, maybe it wouldn't really have started until the 5th ID was confirmed lost and XI Corp cut off, so lets say early to mid August).
Sorting troops for their eventual destination in Germany is really the only way it can be done. Ship A goes here loaded with these people, Ship B there with those, etc. Late arrivals would be simply shoved onto a couple of ships assigned for the late arrivals and almost certainly sent to Norfolk for latter processing as you've said.

Its only years after I started writing Poseidons Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Works for me, however you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

[Targan]

I skimmed "A Rock in Troubled Waters". At the risk of sounding like Im patting myself on the back, its remarkable how similarly the original Twilight: 2000 crowd and I think. Of course, a certain amount of the similarity almost certainly originates from similarities in motive (creation of a post-apocalyptic world that blends realism with good story-telling), culture (Army pukes), and experience (Cold War with some high-temperature peacekeeping, anyone). My observations about militias backing the listed Army units appear to be borne out. I dont feel like my emphasis on explaining the relative prosperity of SAMAD is excessive. Blue Two (Second Naval Infantry Battalion, operating in San Francisco Bay) looks downright mainstream now. I could go on, but its clear that Thunder Empire, Poseidons Rifles, and Silver Shogunate have been moving along parallel tracks to the established material in "A Rock in Troubled Waters". Fascinating.

There's no need to be modest. I greatly admire your work and I long ago decided to add your Thunder Empire and Silver Shogunate work lock, stock and barrel into my campaigns.

Here I go referring to my own work again One of my struggles with Poseidons Rifles always has been balancing the presence of a pretty substantial military establishment on the coast of Maine with the material in The Last Submarine and the Challenge article on the US Coast Guard in Rhode Island (oeRifle River). Very specifically, Ive had to think hard about how to show that a couple of fairly powerful small warships belonging to First District can fit with the established canon. Its only years after I started writing Poseidons Rifles that the obvious answer for where USCGC Gallatin, the flagship of First District, is in 2000. As soon as Milgov makes the decision to withdraw US troops from Europe (before the summer offensive), Gallatin is picked to participate. Overhauling the ship, storing up the fuel, making the crossing, waiting waiting waiting The better part of 2000 might be eaten up with that sort of thing.

Your Gallatin idea makes perfect sense. I've always wanted to incorporate your Poseidons Rifles work into my campaigns but I have been hesitant because I'm not sure where it would conflict with canon.for better or for worse, I personally always try not to contradict canon (each to their own though, that's just my personal preference). I'm happy to fill in the blanks in canon with new material though. If your Poseidons Rifles work reaches completion and doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

[Legbreaker]

...doesn't conflict with what's in Rifle River and The Last Submarine I'll incorporate it wholesale as well.

I'm in agreement with that as a general statement. Anybodies work which expands on the canon without contradicting it is likely to see use in my hands.

[Webstral]

...you might want to hold off sending ships across the pond until August... Having the ships stuck in drydock somewhere during the early part of the year seems to be the best approach to avoid screwing around with canon too much (although it's your creation and you should do what you like).

I agree insofar as Gallatin, a 3250-ton cutter with a 76mm gun and other smaller armaments, has to be managed carefully in order not to upset the balance of things as given in The Last Submarine and oeRifle River. Looking back through my notes, I see that Ive addressed this concern already (and quite forgot about it). Gallatin serves as convoy escort to the movement of 70th Infantry Division to Europe in 1998. While in Europe, Gallatin and her squadron are diverted to Norway to intercept Soviet raiders on their way back to Soviet-held territory from Trondheim. During the fighting, Gallatin shares credit for sinking a Tarantul-class corvette and receives full credit for a Nanutchka. Gallatin takes multiple hits from enemy autocannon during the engagement. She makes the Atlantic crossing and spends more than a year in drydock and at anchor in Bath (Maine). Shortages of fuel keep her from participating in any but the most important missions after she is declared fit for service. Gallatin participates in two actions against oepirates operating along the coast of the Maritime Provinces in late 1999. In spring 2000, she participates in a pre-OMEGA to withdraw American troops from Iceland. Gallatin has no more sea time until crossing the Atlantic to escort the OMEGA fleet to the US.

Fuel shortages and repairs should suffice to explain why the strongest naval combatant in New England is sidelined for most of the post-Exchange period through April 2001.

[Legbreaker]

Most, if not all Coast Guard vessels are painted white, is that correct Would they have received a naval grey coat at some point