military intelligence operations groups...

[ArmySGT.]

The men and women who are part of Stonycreek are all dedicated to the United States and it's constituion...

1) The is no Government on Earth that would fund an operation of this size and then give it autonomy.

2) There just People. They do a job that can be great fun, but they expect to be paid. Such altrustic souls you envision exist only in novels.

3) By arrogance, ignorance, or greed the secret would be out. You can't invite a few hundred into the room and expect a secret.

4) The Armed Services Committee wouldn't allow it. Besides our own Senators and Congress critters on that committee blew open black ops in Pakistan for talking points on sunday tv.

5) The CIA, the DIA, the NSA, and the NRO would fight against such an organizations creation. Such an outfit would take their funds, assets, and personnel.

[natehale1971]

Just because Stonycreek is not likely to exist in real life doesn't mean it can't exist in fiction or in RPG settings. Because in all honestly, the T2k setting after the nukes got thrown around, the world would have been hurting to damn bad to continue the fighting.

[pmulcahy11b]

1) The is no Government on Earth that would fund an operation of this size and then give it autonomy.

2) There just People. They do a job that can be great fun, but they expect to be paid. Such altrustic souls you envision exist only in novels.

3) By arrogance, ignorance, or greed the secret would be out. You can't invite a few hundred into the room and expect a secret.

4) The Armed Services Committee wouldn't allow it. Besides our own Senators and Congress critters on that committee blew open black ops in Pakistan for talking points on sunday tv.

5) The CIA, the DIA, the NSA, and the NRO would fight against such an organizations creation. Such an outfit would take their funds, assets, and personnel.

Yes...but then again, this is an RPG and not reality...

...But integrating some of those things into the game that unit is in could make for some interesting game play.

[Legbreaker]

I see existing organisations simply being expanded to fill in the gaps. What's the point in creating a whole new administrative framework and yet another organisation to compete for resources with those already existing.

[natehale1971]

They are not competing for resources anymore than say the US Army and Blackwater are competing for the resources they've got. There are private military intelligence companies that exist... the more i read about them, Stonycreek might just use that as their inital cover, and have them fullfilling contracts with the DoD... Something that is happening for real right this minute because there are things they need, that the CIA isn't providing and the DIA can't provide.

Stonycreek isn't a federal government agency, they get their resources form other methods. They use the money and assets of the people they've focused upon and have taken out once they've proven that they are bad guys.

[Legbreaker]

People. People are resources to.
The CIA, etc are all wanting as many people as they can get. Where is another organisation going to get the people they need when the government is either recuiting, or simply conscripting everyone within sight with the necessary skills
And don't forget the military are after people too to drastically expand their forces.

It's not all about the money...

[natehale1971]

if that's the case, why are people taking early retirement from the CIA because the're fed up with the burecratic BS Those are the people they are already loosing, that the Stonycreek would be focusing on recruiting after making sure that they would be out for doing the right thing, and not out just for a quick buck.

And for those who like to say, they don't exist... thank you for saying I don't exist. I volunteered for the Armed Forces out of a love of my country. Not out of a sense of 'What can I get' out of the armed forces. And i wasn't alone. and there are more people like that than you can imaigne. Do they get a paycheck yes, they do. They might not be getting the same amount they'd be getting by working for a Private Military Inteligence Company. But they get enough to cover their needs and many of their wants.

People on this list making complaints without offering constructive critism aren't looking at the fact i stated this wasn't for Twilight 2000.. it was for something that would be happening in a world like our own, full of threats that to many people are ignoring.

Stonycreek would be a group that the PCs would be working for in the Flashpoints or Brushfire Wars setting that i was creating. Based on something that COULD exist. Because I've seen Private Military Intelligence Contractor Companies and Private Military Contractor Companies coming into existance, namely due to the reasons that i've stated.

That there is so much redtape and bullsht that is keeping them from being the most effiecent and capable Sheepdogs to protect all of us from the Wolves nipping at our heels seeking out the weakest in the flock to rip into, that veteran CIA operatives, veteran Special Warfare Operatives and even veteran FBI agents are retiring early because they are so fed up with the fact that the burecrats are more concerned with covering their own asses than doing their job... PROTECTING the people of this country and our allies.

Don't believe me that's fine. But it's the truth. It's happening, and my idea of Stonycreek would work for what i've created it for.

[ArmySGT.]

Ok I'm done.

YOYO.

[natehale1971]

Ok I'm done.

YOYO.

Yeah... i'm a YOYO, this isn't a real thing...

http://www.privatemilitary.org/home.html

a site that shows you all the nice private miltiary companies, and private miltiary intelligence companies.

Oh.. there's the first one that pops up if you do a google search for private miltiary intelligence company.

http://www.executiveboard.com/index....0180000000ZOKx &sourceid=6

I'm a YOYO something is real and i bring it up and i'm a YOYO i get upset and say something no where near as bad and i get called to the woodshed for geting upset and cussing. but you can call me a yoyo for saying something that is true and using it for creating a group for a RPG

who's the YOYO

[ArmySGT.]

yeah... I'm a yoyo, this isn't a real thing...

http://www.privatemilitary.org/home.html

a site that shows you all the nice private miltiary companies, and private miltiary intelligence companies.

Oh.. There's the first one that pops up if you do a google search for private miltiary intelligence company.

http://www.executiveboard.com/index....0180000000zokx &sourceid=6

i'm a yoyo Something is real and i bring it up and i'm a yoyo I get upset and say something no where near as bad and i get called to the woodshed for geting upset and cussing. But you can call me a yoyo for saying something that is true And using it for creating a group for a rpg

Who's the yoyo

your on your own.

[Legbreaker]

Look, it's simple.
The Twilight war, regardless of your timeline, background, etc requires manpower.
There is only a limited pool of manpower.
The military are drawing on every able body they can lay their hands on.
The CIA, FBI, NSA, and every other alphabet organisation want people to expand to meet the needs of wartime.
NOBODY is going to be allowed to retire, resign, quit, etc while there's a build up going on. Therefore, there's likely to be a huge shortage of manpower.

That's T2K for you anyway. If it's not a global war situation you're talking about, then's it's a different matter, but you're still going to face extreme difficulties from the existing agencies who feel their turf is being threatened.

The other question is, where the hell is the money coming from Running an intelligence organisation doesn't come cheap and gold plated toilet seats only cover so many black ops...
Sure the start up cash might come from the example in your first post, but what about ongoing costs Maintaining the organisation is nearly as expensive as setting it up in the first place.

[natehale1971]

Stonycreek is something that i didn't bring up as bewing part of the Twilight 2000 world after nuclear exchanges. It's part of the first level of world going to hell.. Ie, Flashpoints... on a project that i've been working on for years.

The three levels that you can use for 'dail our own apoc' that i created for "World War IV: A World In Flames" goes like this...

Setting One. Flashpoints (the world after 9-11, full of intrige and plots)

Setting Two. Brushfire (two or more brushfire wars, wars like Iraq and Afghanistan, going on at one time)

Setting Three. Firestorm (the total global war... with every theather is active with combat operations going on)

I had thought of putting another stage between two and three... something that would bridge the gap between a couple of brushfire wars to an all out slugfest between everyone on the planet. I just couldn't think of a catchy title for it that fit in with the entire "WWIV: A World in Flames" naming.

I have already stated that Stonycreek has alot more than one way of getting its funding. These are just a few of the ways they'd get money.

1. Their PMC cover would be getting paid by fulfilling contracts (be they official government contracts from the DoD or State Dept, or private companies that have hired them).

2. Hackers and Forensic Accountants are tracking down the money networks that are fudning the terrorists, and they are swiping that money from their acccounts (something that i've been told Hackers are known to do for themselves, having the good guys break a terror network and then getting to use that money against the terrorist is just fitting).

3. The Other legit cover companies that came from absorbing the Giovanni Crime Family. The Crime family had been on the course pre-9/11 to go legit, focusing their attention on their legal activities... but post-9/11 they throw themselves into the Global War on Terror (something that happened in real life during WW2) by using their illegal network to help track down terror networks.

Believe it or not Organized Crime in the post-9/11 world have actually provided leads to Terror Networks IRL... smuggling (human or items) circles are pretty close... someone knows someone who knows someone.

Now, Stonycreek's basic premise is that they are to use the terorists own rules and resources against them. Something that alot of people have wondered why the government isn't already doing...

Case in point, the DEA and FBI have warehouses that are full of money that has been siezed from drug dealers, just sitting there waiting to be destoryed. not used to pay down the debt or provide a trust fund for the victims of the cartels or terrorist actions. It's just sitting there. Sometimes that money is used to help create stings operations. But the money is tracked to make sure it doesn't get back into circulation and is followed right up to the time and place it's burned.

The Congress could easliy act within the constraints of the Constitution to take all of that money that has been seized in the commission of crimes, they just haven't done it. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of billions of dollars that has been siezed that are awaiting to be destroyed.

Now who's to stay that money hasn't been officially 'destroyed' and not funneled into black operations funding

In the drumroll period before the world goes completely to hell, that's the time and place that Stonycreek would be the perfect agency for a group of PCs to work for. They'd be going around the world dealing with the kind of things that would be the Flashpoints that could push the world over the edge into total war.