49th Armoured Division

[Olefin]

If the train network in Poland, a country that has been fought over by armies for four years by multiple armies and nuked a lot more intensively than the US was, plus literally thousands of conventional air strikes, was intact enough for a party of player characters to take a train across half the country a few weeks then MilGov can get trains to OK from Norfolk easily enough.

Or you can take ships to LA and then go from there overland easily enough, even if the reinforcments originally particpated in the Ozark operation and then went on from there to OK with New America out of the way.

Or they could have gone by train to Chicago and then from there followed the same path that the 400 guys sent by the 194th followed to get to Louisiana.

Or per the Ozarks module they could have gone to Memphis and then by road convoy to the 49th.

Sorry Leg but your arguments dont work here.

If they can reinforce the 85th from units in IL and Norfolk they can reinforce the 49th.

Oh and any ship that is carrying cargo can carry a lot of men - and the ships described in Red Star, Lone Star could clearly carry a lot of men. These arent fishing boats, they are freighters. If you can carry freight you can carry hundreds of men in its place.


And the 49th being out of communication as to them needing reinforcements is non-sensical. Especially considering the location of that division relative to the Colorado HQ and the fact that the division is providing fuel to the entire Midwest and Plains states.

[Legbreaker]

Sorry Leg but your arguments dont work here.

May I suggest reading this before opening your mouth

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=3130

Shifting people around has been discussed at great length before now and I'm not the only one who sees problems which can't be solved by waving a magic wand and simply wishing.

[Webstral]

I want to address two items: the identifiable need for reinforcements for 49th AD and the assignment of available Operation Omega troops by rational means (as opposed to catch-as-catch-can).

As of 01 JUL 00, 49th AD disposes 3000 troops and 23 tanks and light tanks. (I just cant bring myself to misuse the term oeAFV) The division is at something like 20% of its authorized manpower, although reductions in the number of uniformed support personnel probably place its infantry strength at a higher level. I dont think theres any question that the division needs reinforcements badly. Every formation in CONUS and Alaska needs reinforcements badly.

The command and staff running the CONUS side of Operation Omega are challenged to distribute the returning troops without knowing how many actually will return. As Legbreaker points out, not everyone who shows up in Bremerhaven is going to be available for dispatch as replacements. Nonetheless, Colorado Springs is going to want to have some system in place to distribute the troops who become available based on needs and feasibility.

Were I an operations staffer in Colorado Springs (in which case Milgov would be in genuinely dire straits), I would use a variation on a risk management matrix to help the bosses decide where Operation Omega troops should go. The vertical axis would be priority, and the highest value would be at the top of the column. The horizontal axis would be feasibility, and the highest value would be on the right side. Highest priority and highest feasibility would be found in the upper right of the matrix, while lowest priority and lowest feasibility would be at the bottom left. The most available troops would go to units located in the upper right. No one would go to units located in the bottom left. (If Fort Huachuca even appeared on such a matrix, it would be tucked into the bottom left corner of the graph.)

Units of Fifth US Army probably would be assigned high priority ratings because they are located along or near the Mississippi Watershed, the value of which I believe has been fairly well established. Although 90th US Corps is located well west of the Mississippi, a functional lock system along the Arkansas River will allow barge traffic to continue to move as far west as Tulsa. Since 90th US Corps is protecting the oil assets of Oklahoma, it seems reasonable to assume that the component formations of the corps will have a high priority rating. Units of First US Army probably would not receive uniformly high priority ratings. For instance, 49th MP Brigade isnt protecting anything important in western Massachusetts. Sure, it would be nice to control the Connecticut River for transport and agriculture, but nothing in New England measures up against the resource base of the Mississippi Basin.

Feasibility is another matter entirely. One can debate whether 78th ID is going to receive a high priority rating, but its got to be at the top of the list for feasibility. 100th ID in Colorado is at best middlin until the airships underpinning Operation Manifest Destiny become available. (I seldom forego an opportunity to plug for my own work.) Sixth US Army is only surpassed in terms of infeasibility by Ninth US Army.

The question really is whether the high feasibility of using Operation Omega troops to reinforce Milgov cantonments on the East Coast outweighs the high priority of using them to reinforce Fifth US Army in the all-important heartland. Obviously, this is not an all-or-nothing prospect. However, the matrix can help generate a ratio for the available troops; for example, 40% of the available troops will go to First US Army, while the rest go to Fifth US Army.

[Olefin]

very good and reasoned argument Webstral

and a lot better than the usual "the canon doesnt say so" that I hear so often

and also good to see that its not just me who thinks that MilGov would be rational when it comes to reinforcements and give some to the units that are protecting resources that even HW says are critical to their ability to survive

not too smart of any general to say these assets are super critical - and then not send them any men when they are available and available in large numbers

(i.e. 28000 men is a lot of men available to reinforce units that have 3000 left and are guarding critical cannot lose resources)

[LAW0306]

OLEFIN welcome to the dark side of the force. Check in with chico to draw weapons and Jason wiser for an intel dump.

[Olefin]

Intel already received when I first came here but thanks for the info LAW.

[pmulcahy11b]

Thanks, that is REALLY useful info, exactly the sort of info i need, bits will make it into the next draft. Do you want a fictional mention

Are the unit designations right It is a mix of different sources and a couple of educated guesses.

The unit designations are correct as I remember them.

At Annual Drills, we spent the better part of week simply trying to weld 1st Battalion back into an integrated unit. Even so, the "outlyers" (as we called them) had their ways of doing things, some of which were non-SOP. So you use that, instead of turning the Drill into Basic Training. Bravo and Charlie were used to operating alone, and they made outstanding scouts when you couldn't get the Scout Platoon to be assigned to a recon for you.

[Legbreaker]

We had a similar situation in the reserve units I was in. Platoons and companies tended to be able to work well enough with only a few days to a couple of weeks of training, but pulling anything more together was a long and intensive process of months.
The larger the formation, no matter what nationality it is, the longer it would take to get operational as a large unit. Elements should be able to operate effectively fairly quickly though, provided the individual soldiers knew their jobs and the small units of platoon and companies had been able to train fairly regularly in peacetime.

[Webstral]

Don't get me started on the inadequacies of the US reserve system to keep combat units in fighting trim. Don't get me started. Don't do it.

[Legbreaker]

Don't get me started on the inadequacies of the US reserve system to keep combat units in fighting trim. Don't get me started. Don't do it.

*Poke* *poke*
Go on, do it. you know you want too!

[Webstral]

*Poke* *poke*
Go on, do it. you know you want too!

Leg, there are times when I think you were born with a pot stirrer in your hand. For now, I must resist. I have been assigned a critical mission by my better half: clear off the desk in the office and put all that [expletive deleted] Twilight: 2000 stuff away!

[James Langham]

Expanded and revised version

I've tried to resolve the replacement issue now and added a few quotes.

[Olefin]

very nice additions - makes it an even better final product. Even though I dont agree with the final result as per HW, the additions you have made really bring the era of late 2000 to early 2001 to life. It does represent an attempt to explain a canonical event that I dont agree with but as always canon is what you make of it.

And for those who choose to stay to that canon what you have done is really bring the division and its history to life.

I would make one suggestion. Since it is written as a historical document you may want to extend it out and suggest a possible future for the unit. As mentioned eventually the unit has the BMP as a museum piece at its HQ at Fort Sill. Thus it doesnt die but continues and eventually survives as a division. That story would be a an excellent addition to what you have written.

[Legbreaker]

For now, I must resist. I have been assigned a critical mission by my better half: clear off the desk in the office and put all that [expletive deleted] Twilight: 2000 stuff away!

Ah, that is a critical task. Essential to continued survival even given the source of the orders!

[James Langham]

very nice additions - makes it an even better final product. Even though I dont agree with the final result as per HW, the additions you have made really bring the era of late 2000 to early 2001 to life. It does represent an attempt to explain a canonical event that I dont agree with but as always canon is what you make of it.

And for those who choose to stay to that canon what you have done is really bring the division and its history to life.

I would make one suggestion. Since it is written as a historical document you may want to extend it out and suggest a possible future for the unit. As mentioned eventually the unit has the BMP as a museum piece at its HQ at Fort Sill. Thus it doesnt die but continues and eventually survives as a division. That story would be a an excellent addition to what you have written.

Thanks, I haven't finished with the document yet but haven't fully worked out the future of the 49th. Personally I see it withering away leaving a headquarters made up of the command staff and little else (which is operating under greater and greater delusions) but I can be persuaded to do things differently.