Olefin's Twilight 2000 Universe thread

[Olefin]

In my campaign the GM had more armor - but no unit was armor rich to say the least - he used the forces that MilGov and CivGov had available to them and interpreted the canon data with some changes to make his own world - one where the troops brought home were used against both the domestic enemy - New America - and the remaining foreign threats on US soil. As well as used hints in the RDF and Kings Ransom as to what was about to happen in Iran as well in the spring and summer of 2001.

And you will see how Airlords factored in.

What I thought was interesting is that my GM when we were playing had us doing a group in Iran and CENTCOM got reinforced there from Korea which allowed us to bring in characters who had fought there. Then what do I find out looking thru the archive - that Frank Frey in his notes was saying that there was supposed to be an evacuation from Korea of US forces to CENTCOM that they never got to release. So my GM's guess at the future of the canon in Iran while we were playing was better than he thought.

[kalos72]

Love the work Ole...really!

One problem I have always had is, the fact that we say we went through all this stock of armor in the war Or are these numbers wrong maybe


Overall Notes On US OOB

Note 1: US Equipment Holdings (included National Guard and Reserve)

This represents a compilation of equipment holdings from a variety of sources. In addition, it is likely the US held significant quantities of older material in war reserve.
Tanks: 2374 M1 Abrams, 894 IPM1, 2100+ M1A1 (deliveries ongoing), 5328 M60A3, 2659 M60A1, as many as 1800 M48A5 , 1334 M551 Sheridan, 630 M47s (stored in Italy this one surprised everyone after it was revealed in the CFE declarations.)
AIFVs: 4955 M2/M3 Bradleys (deliveries ongoing 600 odd M2A2/M3A2 delivered in FY89)
M113 Family: (per Janes 1992) 16,000 M113 APCs, 1950 M106 107mm SP mortar, 950+ M125 81mm SP mortar, 4000 M548, 5000 M577, 3300 M901 SP TOW, 1000 M901 FIST-V
SP Artillery: 2,400 M109A2/A3 155mm SP (likely significant quantities in storage), 1046 M110A2 203mm SP
Towed Artillery: 1000+ M198 155mm towed howitzers (possibly fewer), 526 M114 155mm towed howitzers, 150 M119 105mm (UK Light Gun), 1100+ M101, M102 105mm towed
MRL: 373 MLRS (deliveries ongoing)
Surface-to-Surface Missile Systems: 65 Lance launchers (more in storage)
Air Defense: 400+ I-Hawk, ~300 Patriot (deliveries ongoing), 30+ Avengers (deliveries ongoing), 600 Chapparal SP, 31 Roland (in storage), some Pedestal Mounted Stinger (deliveries ongoing), numerous Stinger, Redeye, 360 M163 20mm Vulcan SP, 220 M167 20mm Vulcan towed, 300 M42 Duster twin 40mm SP (NG only, phasing out)
ATGM: 7700 Dragon launchers, 7400 TOW Launchers (not sure what this includes)
Fixed Wing Aviation: 28 RU-21, 148 OV-1B/C/D, 30 RV-1D (plus numerous light transport and utility types)
Rotary Wing Aviation: 1041 AH-1F/S Cobra, 535 AH-64A (deliveries ongoing), 1840 OH-58A/C, 74 OH-58D (deliveries ongoing), 340+ OH-6A, 950+ UH-60 (deliveries ongoing), 3200+ UH-1B/H (likely more in storage), 212 CH-47B/C, 240 CH-47D (deliveries ongoing), 71 CH-54 Tarhe heavy lift (NG only), 20 EH-1H Quick Fix I, 20+ EH-60A Quick Fix II (deliveries ongoing)
Special Operations Aviation: (as of end FY88): 2 UH-60A, 45 MH-60, 34 MH-6, 20 AH-6, 23 UH-1, 16 MH-47 (D) (on order, being delivered, 51 MH-47E, 23 MH-60K)
Other Equipment: 2625 M88 recovery vehicles, 1,100 AVLB

[stilleto69]

Kalos - are you using the numbers from the NATO Order of Battle 1989 If so remember those number are for a OTL force reduction, not the V1 version of a longer Cold War. IMHO - the US could have built more vehicles and had more equipment.

[kalos72]

Yeah, NATO OoB 1989...

OTL

[stilleto69]

OTL - Our Time Line.

[Adm.Lee]

I wanna know what happened to the 630 M47s in Italy in T2k timeline!

Did the Italian government seize them when they joined the Pact Were they under guard Where were they
Did the It. army put them to use when they ran out of their 1st line tanks 630 is about 2 divisions' worth-- new formations or refitted old ones

I have a small soft spot for them, I once built a model of one, and there is one in a museum near my city that I have yet to visit.

[Olefin]

For that matter what happened to all the M47 tanks that Iran has

Iran got 400 and they still have 168 that are operational as of today. But there is nary a mention of them in the RDF. Shouldnt there be a few still operational there - I doubt they lost them all.

It actually should be a very common tank on the Twilight War battlefield - you would have had the following countries that could have operated them

South Korea, Iran, Iraq, Italy (the ones stored there), Greece, Turkey, Yugoslavia, Pakistan

[Olefin]

March 30, 2001

Ukraine

The 27th NATO Tank Division takes Ternopol after a two week siege, destroying what is left of the 13th Army in the process. The 27th sends emissaries to the various rebel Ukranian units to make contact.

March 31, 2001

Boomer

The SSN Corpus Christi makes a speed run down the Med in response to the information received from the resistance fighters. As it nears the Straits of Gibraltar it encounters the old French ASW frigate Commandant Bory (F726) on patrol. She manages to successfully elude her but is detected causing the French Navy to go on alert for submarines.

Western PA

The material found at the supply cache is loaded onto trucks and brought back to safety, meeting up with advance units of the 28th at Bedford. The unit bringing the material out was attacked by the White Death but was able to fight its way out. The five Bradley AFV found in the cache were crucial in defeating the White Death forces, their machine guns and 25mm cannon mowing down waves of attackers.

April 2, 2001

Germany

The DIA has been busy over the winter working with US units who refused to evacuate during Operation Omega and while not wholly successful in getting all the various remaining units to come back under US control, they have managed to bring three significant formations back under US MILGOV control.

The III Corps has been reformed and has what is left of the 1st US Cavalry Division, the 70th US Infantry Division and the 3rd US Armored Cavalry Regiment brought back together under its control near Neustrelitz, Germany. The remaining HQ troops from the XIII Corps have joined as well.

They are preparing for a joint operation with the III German Army to drive any remaining Soviet troops out of the area and then attempt a link-up with the US XI Corps in Poland in order to facilitate their withdrawal to friendly territory. They have managed to round up additional US personnel who missed the Omega evacuation, including some 5th Infantry survivors who have made it to Germany over the winter. The Germans have also agreed to hand over some tanks, vehicles and supplies left behind in order to add to their combat power with the proviso that any surviving vehicles and tanks will be handed back at the end of the operation.

III Corps

III Corps HQ
1st US Cavalry Division (2600 men, 54 tanks) - 10 M1, 20 M1A1, 20 M1A2, 4 M60A4
70th US Infantry Division (2000 men, 15 tanks) - 6 M8 Bufords, 9 LAV-75
3rd US Armored Cavalry Regiment (150 men, 4 tanks) - 4 M1A1

Boomer

The Corpus Christi stops at Portsmouth in order to complete her original mission and offload spare parts in order to repair the damaged Permit class submarine USS Gato (SSN-615) and allow her to travel back to Norfolk along with two torpedoes so she can defend herself on the way home. She receives more instructions from MilGov as well as six US Marines from the embassy detail as reinforcements for her landing party, leaving for Norway where they have been directed to meet up with the Norwegian King at the Norwegian naval base in Trondheim.

Korea

As part of the deal made with CENTCOM for fuel, a small convoy arrives at Pusan with the Republic of China's 66th Marine Brigade. This 3500 man strong force includes a tank battalion (with 36 M41D tanks), four infantry battalions, an artillery battalion and assorted support companies. With their arrival the USMC forces begin to embark for Iran, giving up their places in the line to the Chinese Marines.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Korea

As part of the deal made with CENTCOM for fuel, a small convoy arrives at Pusan with the Republic of Chinas 66th Marine Brigade. This 3500 man strong force includes a tank battalion (with 36 M41D tanks), four infantry battalions, an artillery battalion and assorted support companies. With their arrival the USMC forces begin to embark for Iran, giving up their places in the line to the Chinese Marines.

What's OOB of the Marine contingent Strength, vehicles, attached personnel, air power, etc.

[Olefin]

The 66th Brigade would not have an air contingent (the Taiwan Marines have always been very light on air assets like helos, with only 6 Defender 500's assigned for the whole Marine force). Its artillery battalion would be equipped with M109A2 SPG, while its anti-tank company would have a mix of TOW's and the M40A1 recoilless rifle. It would have a single air defense company equipped with the M42 Duster and the MIM-72/M48 Chaparral.

Small arms would be the T65K2 assault rifle and the T75 light machine gun and they would also have the SMAW bunker busters as well.

The four infantry battalions would be also be equipped with the CM-21 (Taiwanese versions of the M113), each at full strength consisting of 40 officers and 571 NCOs and enlisted ranks. With Taiwan having seen little fighting to date they would be at full strength.

[Olefin]

April 3, 2001

California

The long planned and long delayed general offensive in California to drive the Mexicans back to their border, Operation Idaho, is almost ready to launch. MilGov has managed to get several co-generation plants going again which has allowed them to put two of the three refineries in Kern County (Kern Oil & Refining and San Joaquin Refining) back into full operation over the winter, using the output from the Kern Oil Fields, which they have expended a lot of effort on since 1999 to bring back into operational status.

Conversion is almost completed on the vehicles in the MilGov forces back to run on diesel and gasoline and units have been reinforced by militia units that have been incorporated into regular forces, which have been properly trained as well. A further 2000 militia have been raised and properly equipped in order to allow MilGov to concentrate its forces on the offensive without leaving many men behind to guard depots, food storage and the like.

Depots have been thoroughly searched throughout CA for ammunition, spare parts and working vehicles and in addition to what has been obtained from Littlefield some two dozen M48A5 tanks and fifty assorted M113's have been made operational (using parts from dozens of long stored vehicles to get them operational, a process which has taken nearly a year) as well as over two dozen assorted artillery pieces, some dating back to the Korean War. Units have been reinforced with gun trucks that have been up-armored using armor plate culled from various battlefields and depots and armed with machine guns, mortars and grenade launchers as well.

Alaska

DIA agents have been working extensively to sow dissent in the units that have been cut off in Anchorage since 1998, organizing guerrilla attacks that have forced the units to use much of their remaining ammo reserve in driving them off. Many soldiers in those units are down to their last couple of magazines, with some forced to switch to captured civilian weapons. US trainers with the X Corps have now thoroughly integrated the 14th and 41st Motorized Rifle Divisions that defected to the US after being driven out of Juneau into the US force structure, with any men who did not wish to join the US Army being given a choice between POW camps or parole if they signed a loyalty oath. While the winter has been hard with the coming of spring the 1st and 2nd Infantry Brigades and the 10th Infantry Division, who had spent much of the winter dispersed into small parties to make the most of what hunting and fishing could be done, re-integrating their ranks, adding local partisan and militia groups to their strength in order to finally free Anchorage from the Soviet 11th Army. While the Soviet forces have a substantial advantage in tanks (47 operational tanks versus 6) they have very limited ammunition and fuel for them.

Arkansas
With the information gathered in West Virginia the 197th is ordered to distribute long stored anti-aircraft weaponry to its units as New America's possession of airships is now known.

Boomer

The Corpus Christi sails thru the English Channel, encountering the French ASW frigate Commandant Riviere that detects and attacks her. The destroyer is sunk by two torpedoes but not until after she manages to damage the Christi, knocking out her fire control system again. It can be repaired but the parts needed are back at Norfolk. Until she gets there she wont be able to use her weapons.

[lordroel]

Doe MilGov and CivGov use Technical in large numbers as pickups are very easy to find in The USA or mostly military vehicles.

[Olefin]

both of them most likely would be using gun trucks (i.e. technicals) - in canon the 278th was using gun trucks in Germany after they lost many of their vehicles on the trip over - you have to assume they continued that practice in the US

[lordroel]

both of them most likely would be using gun trucks (i.e. technicals) - in canon the 278th was using gun trucks in Germany after they lost many of their vehicles on the trip over - you have to assume they continued that practice in the US

So would anybody have control over one of the many car producing factories across the country, you can produce armored vehicles (armored plating and such) with not much problem.

[Olefin]

those factories really dont help much if you want to create home made armored vehicles - what you need is trucks you can modify - especially military ones or ones made for overland travel like Mack RD vehicles that were originally made to service the oil industry