This is welcoming home the troops?

[dragoon500ly]

One of the dirty little secrets of the Vietnam war is that it was largely a volunteer military that went. The mental image promulgated by the left of poor blacks being rounded up out of urban neighborhoods and used as cannon fodder doesn't track. Most of the vets I know did multiple (volunteer) hitches.

"Dirty Little Secrets of the Vietnam War " by James Dunnigan and Albert Nofi has the best research that I've seen on the so-called "Black Army" myth.

Their viewpoint is that the notion that the Vietnam War was fought by a "Black Army" was a myth created strictly for the political purposes of the anti-war movement.

Historically, Afro-Americans have been kept out of the military due to racism. When they were allowed to serve, they were placed in support services. Even at the height of World War II, black combatants numbered less than3% of the total manpower committed to action. When President Truman issued his order ending segregation in the military in 1947, these numbers began to change.

During the time in question, Afro Americans numbered between 10 and 12% of the total population, during the years leading up to Vietnam, the percentage of Afro Americans serving in the Army climbed to 17%. They were most visible in the volunteer specialties, such as airborne, who would receive additional pay for hazardous duty (thus resulting in the press reports of all-black platoons of paratroopers).

During the first two years of serious American involvement (1964-66), Afro Americans comprsied reoughly one fifth of those killed in action. Losses were particularly heavy among the NCOs. As the draft started to impact the military, the percentage of troops who were black fell, as more whites were drafted, or volunteered for the draft. Throughout the Vietnam War, the racial distribution of combat dead was this:

Whites 86%
Blacks 12.5%
Others 1.2%

Going by the numbers, the Afro-American population did not make up most of the Army and certainly, "all black" units were not the norm during the war.

After the Vietnam War, the numbers had changed yet again, with whites forming a substantial majority of the combat units while nonwhite troops were volunteering for the support services (and better access to technical training). By the 1980s, the military raised its educational qualifications for enlistment, thus making just about everyone eligible for technical training. Many recruits who would never have been able to afford to attend college used the military to gain access to higher levels training, thus putting to an end the often repeated refrain of "dying for the white man" to rest.

At least until the Gulf War.

There the media picked up on the laments of the anti-war movement that "black soldiers would suffer disproportionate losses." The Pentagon was quick off the mark pointing out that the situation had changed, but the media ran with their "story".

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Speaking of Black and special forces - James Marshall Hendrix (1942-1970) was an Airborne Ranger. By his own admission he was a poor soldier but he stood the watch and was honorably discharged after his hitch.

[HorseSoldier]

Once the military desegregated a military career was probably the best, and possibly in some cases, only, real avenue for upward mobility for a lot of black Americans. While the South was particularly bad in that era for civil rights issues, discrimination was pervasive nationwide.

While the casualties suffered might have been proportional to the overall population demographics in the US, those losses in the black community had a different cultural impact, first culling from the ranks of those with the drive and initiative to try and better themselves, and then, with draftees, killing young men at a point when improvements in civil rights provided the possibility that those killed might have been able to pursue civilian avenues of advancement had they lived.

There were those who used the situation to advance political agendas, but they were only able to do so by tapping into a significant sentiment in black culture.

[Graebarde]

http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm

I'm not sure of where their numbers come from. But if they're accurate, then it paints a far different picture than many would have you believe about what was going on "over there".

IMHO those figures are pretty accurate. A LOT of study went into the 'Nam Vets and statistics such as this. Much of it done by the VA.

[Graebarde]

Was with my grandfather and his brother in 1971 when a hippie and his buddy threw their drinks into the face of a returning vet who had just got back and called him a baby killer.

Lets just say what my grandfather and great uncle did to them could be termed one of the great beatings of the 1970's. (Grandfather and great uncle both being WWII combat vets, the great uncle being in the second wave on D-Day at Omaha)

Hehehe,

The only spiting type incident I saw was in SeaTac in early '70 when the dumb ass made the mistake of confronting a SF staff sergeant who was leaving the latrine/head/toilet. Let's just say the other four GIs in there blocked the exit while staff flushed the crap. Discretion is the better part of valor.. some people think they can do anything they want with our repercutions.

[Legbreaker]

If you want to blame somebody, blame the politicians who refuse to adopt a long term security policy, not to mention, their knee-jerk antics whenever a crisis blows up.

Hell yes. Although to one politicians credit, when I had a one one one chat with them a few years back they completely agreed with the idea of assigning the necessary resources (financial and manpower) to the military, but was hamstrung by the expectations of the voters. Many politicians know what's needed, but also know it's political suicide to actually DO it!

[dragoon500ly]

Hell yes. Although to one politicians credit, when I had a one one one chat with them a few years back they completely agreed with the idea of assigning the necessary resources (financial and manpower) to the military, but was hamstrung by the expectations of the voters. Many politicians know what's needed, but also know it's political suicide to actually DO it!

The sad fact is that for every politician with the balls to do the right for the troops, they are sadly outnumbered by the ones scrambling to get that ole "pork" for their districts and buy their way into reelection.

Thankfully, I don't have to interact (much) with the crop o'congressional jacka**es, but the ones that I do bump into, leave one with the feeling of having been well slimed!

[bobcat]

and here i am at a college that pays more Observance to a damned football game than veterans day or memorial day.

[The Rifleman]

and here i am at a college that pays more Observance to a damned football game than veterans day or memorial day.

I am a 20 year veteran. I'm also a police officer. I always work on weekends and I do get quite angry on veterans day because it seems like veterans are always working. It should be that in able to get the day off work, you have to be a vet, or going to an event to support vets.

The day that I really hate is memorial day. All weekend long I deal with drunken morons, enjoying a 3 day weekend. Its supposed to be about honoring the memory of our dead soldiers and instead they do stupid things and get all indigint like its their right to be drunk and stupid for the 'holiday'

[Panther Al]

I am a 20 year veteran. I'm also a police officer. I always work on weekends and I do get quite angry on veterans day because it seems like veterans are always working. It should be that in able to get the day off work, you have to be a vet, or going to an event to support vets.

The day that I really hate is memorial day. All weekend long I deal with drunken morons, enjoying a 3 day weekend. Its supposed to be about honoring the memory of our dead soldiers and instead they do stupid things and get all indigint like its their right to be drunk and stupid for the 'holiday'

So agree:


I honestly think the one thing that all sides in Sodom on Gammorah (Washington DC) could possibly agree on - and I won't place bets on it - is actually making Veterans Day a holiday that Vets - and only vets - get off as a paid holiday.

[The Rifleman]

So agree:


I honestly think the one thing that all sides in Sodom on Gammorah (Washington DC) could possibly agree on - and I won't place bets on it - is actually making Veterans Day a holiday that Vets - and only vets - get off as a paid holiday.

+1

I give big credit to Applebees and Denny's for offering free or reduced price meals to vets yesterday. I was working a 12 and had no time for either, but have in the past. Also, Ocean State Job lots gave a 30% discount to vets earlier in the month. I appriciate buisinesses for being generous.

[bobcat]

im not even asking for a day off. but only one of my professors even acknowledged the holiday. and yes i thanked him for his service as well.

[Graebarde]

So agree:


I honestly think the one thing that all sides in Sodom on Gammorah (Washington DC) could possibly agree on - and I won't place bets on it - is actually making Veterans Day a holiday that Vets - and only vets - get off as a paid holiday.

I agree with the Vets only for the paid holiday. But they'll do away with the holiday before they do that I think.

I worked for a company that gave every vet, and only the vets, $20 gift cards (might have been more just can't recall but at least $20) every veterans day. And of the over 500 employees at least 30-40% were vets. Of course it was a private owned company but it sure was the best company I ever worked for.

[Graebarde]

+1

I give big credit to Applebees and Denny's for offering free or reduced price meals to vets yesterday. I was working a 12 and had no time for either, but have in the past. Also, Ocean State Job lots gave a 30% discount to vets earlier in the month. I appriciate buisinesses for being generous.

There was a LONG list of places giving out free meals to vets yesterday. My hat is off to them as well. Note however the only one I know that was doing this before ODS and the great emphasis in this country to honor the vets was Golden Corral. Most have only been doing it since the most recent War on Terrorism.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

A few years ago, when I was flying back from Wisconsin at the Milwaukee airport there was a group of volunteers welcoming service personnel. I saw them welcome a couple of guys in BDUs (ASUs, now) who were just passing through. It was pretty inspiring to see.

Then on the flight home there was a soldier whom they gave a business class seat to and once we were airborne the steward got on the PA and said something like "Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you're all aware we have a celebrity on board; let's give it up for PFc John Smith!" (whatever the guy's name was, it's been a few years so forgive me not remembering) and the whole plane went nuts.

So yeah we civvies do our best. :]