US National Guard books (1985-1989) recommendations?

[Webstral]

I had rather the same experience as Cavtroop in the California National Guard. Upwards of 90% of my light infantry unit had active duty time. About 75% of the unit had been infantry in the Regular Army. (I was an exception. My RA time was in combat engineering and MI.) The reason we performed at all was due to the experience base. Certainly, the Title 32 training* was hopelessly inadequate. Our Title 10 training# was not that much better. The most valuable stuff we learned during our train-up happened off the Big Armys clock, when the guys with the right knowledge base taught us what they had learned in their previous lives. Very sad.

(*) Title 32 refers to a National Guard unit under the control of its parent state
# Title 10 refers to a National Guard unit mobilized for federal service

[Graebarde]

The listing below reflects the NG units and their real-life intended missions:

47th Infantry Division, MN/IA-NG
These were pure infantry outfits with 1 tk, 1 mech and 7 inf battalions. Generally had Korean/Vietnam-era equipment and were considered to be low-readiness divisions. Not intended for service in NATO, not even intended for overseas duties! There were reports that these were intended for Home Defense only.

There are a couple of articles that the 26th and 47th IDs may have been shipped to Alaska. Considering that these two divisions had little or no aviation support and only 2.5 & 5-ton trucks for transport, they would have been almost immobile in the Alaskan countryside. I would have to stamp that article as a very low probability...

Not sure when the 47th reverted to 34th ID, but I do know that there was at least a brigade that was training for possible deployment to Norway as early as the mid-late 70s. They even had some troops training in Norwegian language and had some folks that spoke it brokenly. We ARE talking Minnesota after all.

[dragoon500ly]

All-
Is there anything out there that would show US Army Reserve Mechanized Infantry and Armored formations...if they even existed...in the 80's-90's

I was at Ft Custer in Michigan a number of times from 99-03 and remember seeing some stuff posted there for an Armored unit.

Thanks!
Dave

Best source would be "Armies of NATO's Central Front"

26th ID: 1-110 ARM, 2-181 INF(M), 1-26 CAV

28th ID: 1-103 ARM,1-109 INF(M), 1-104 CAV (Trp A carries the lineage of the Troop of Philadelphia City Cavalry, the oldest US unit in continuous service)

35th MID:
NE-NG: 1-195 ARM, 1-134 INF(M), 2-134 INF(M), E-167 CAV
KS-NG: 1-635 ARM, 1-137 INF(M), 2-137 INF(M), E-114 CAV
KY-NG: 1-123 ARM, 2-123 ARM, 1-149 INF, A-240 CAV

38th ID: 1-246 ARM, 2-152 INF(M), 1-238 CAV

40th MID: 1-185 ARM, 2-185 ARM, 3-185 ARM, 1-149 ARM, 2-159 INF(M), 1-160 INF(M), 2-160 INF(M), 3-160 INF(M), 4-160 INF(M), 1-184 INF(M), 1-18 CAV

42nd ID: 1-127 ARM, 1-108 INF(M), 1-101 CAV

47th ID: 1-94 ARM, 2-133 INF(M),1-101 CAV

49th AD: 1-112 ARM, 2-112 ARM, 3-112 ARM, 4-112 ARM, 5-112 ARM, 6-112 ARM, 1-141 INF(M), 2-141 INF(M), 2-142 INF(M), 3-144 INF(M), 1-124 CAV

50th AD: 1-102 ARM, 2-102 ARM, 3-102 ARM, 5-102 ARM, 1-172 ARM, 2-172 ARM, 1-113 INF(M), 2-113 INF(M), 3-113 INF(M), 1-114 INF(M), 2-114 INF(M), 5-117 CAV

30th MIB: 1-252 ARM; 1-179 INF(M), 1-180 INF(M), E-145 CAV

32nd MIB: 1-632 ARM,2-127 INF(M), 1-128 INF(M), E-105 CAV

48th MIB: 1-108 ARM, 1-121 INF(M), 2-121 INF(M), E-348 CAV

81st MIB: 1-303 ARM, 1-161 INF(M), 3-161 INF(M), E-303 CAV

218th MIB: 2-263 ARM, 1-118 INF(M), 4-118 INF(M), B-713 CAV

256th MIB: 1-156 ARM, 2-156 INF(M), 3-156 INF(M), E-256 CAV

30th AB: 3-109 ARM, 4-109 ARM, 4-117 INF(M), B-230 CAV

31 AB: 1-131 ARM, 2-152 ARM, 1-167 INF(M), E-31 CAV

155th AB: 1-198 ARM, 2-198 ARM, 1-155 INF(M), A-98 CAV

107th ACR: 2-107 CAV, 3-107 CAV, 1-150 CAV (WV-NG)

116th ACR: 1-116 CAV, 2-116 CAV, 3-116 CAV (OR-NG)

163rd ACR: 1-163 CAV, 2-163 CAV, 3-163 CAV (TX-NG)

278th ACR; 1-278 CAV, 2-278 CAV, 3-278 CAV

The Guard also has several independent battalions:
2-120 INF(M) NC-NG; 2-136 INF(M) MN-NG; 2-117 INF(M) TN-NG; 3-141 INF(M) TX-NG

1-152 ARM AL-NG; 1-210 ARM NY-NG; 1-221 ARM NV-NG; 2-252 ARM NC-NG; 1-263 ARM SC-NG; 1-803 ARM WA-NG; 1-108 CAV MS-NG

Finally, no list is complete with mentioning the TLAT battalions, these are "infantry" battalions equipped with 48-72 jeep-mounted TOWs, needless to say, trying to nail down their TO&E is HARD!!!! (subtle hint for any assistance in nailing it down)

2-128 INF(TLAT) WI-NG; 1-249 INF(TLAT) OR-NG; 2-180 INF(TLAT) OK-NG, 1-122 INF(TLAT) GA-NG

[Adm.Lee]

Best source would be "Armies of NATO's Central Front"


107th ACR: 2-107 CAV, 3-107 CAV, 1-150 CAV (WV-NG)

Odd, I'm pretty sure the 107th elements are Ohio NG, it's the 150th that's in WV.

[Louied]

Dragoon,

I have an article on the TLAT Bns (I forget if it gives an exact TO & E)
I'll post it when I get home. Also the info in Isby's book are a little dated. by 1989 42 ID fielded 3 Armd Bns. I have a list of all Armd/Cav units I will post also.

Louie

[dragoon500ly]

Odd, I'm pretty sure the 107th elements are Ohio NG, it's the 150th that's in WV.

You are correct sir, of the 4 NG ACRs at the time, only the 278th was "purely" TN, 107th was OH/WV; 116 was ID/OR; and 163 was MT/TX/UT. All three used the older ROAD TO&E with 3 armd cav sqns, two troops of avn and a engineer company.

[dragoon500ly]

Dragoon,

I have an article on the TLAT Bns (I forget if it gives an exact TO & E)
I'll post it when I get home. Also the info in Isby's book are a little dated. by 1989 42 ID fielded 3 Armd Bns. I have a list of all Armd/Cav units I will post also.

Louie

The TLATs were supposed to be organzied with a HQ and 5 line companies with equipment ranging from 60-72 jeep/TOWs, later replaced by Hummer/TOWs. There are also articles claiming that they had as few as two and as many as six line companies. I've also found articles that give a different TO&E for each of the 4 battalions! Of intrest is that two of the battalions were slotted to go to the 82nd/101st, one to the 9th ID and one to the 7th LID. It's an intresting little tidbit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the two extra tank battalions come about when the decision was made to de-activate the 50th AD

[Louied]

The TLATs were supposed to be organzied with a HQ and 5 line companies with equipment ranging from 60-72 jeep/TOWs, later replaced by Hummer/TOWs. There are also articles claiming that they had as few as two and as many as six line companies. I've also found articles that give a different TO&E for each of the 4 battalions! Of intrest is that two of the battalions were slotted to go to the 82nd/101st, one to the 9th ID and one to the 7th LID. It's an intresting little

IIRC, that's basically what the article I have touches on.

[Louied]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the two extra tank battalions come about when the decision was made to de-activate the 50th AD

AFAIK the answer is no. I have the a lineage book of ARNG Armd/Cav Regts and the two extra Armd Bns seem to have been stood up in the late 1980's. I believe this was due to the attempt to reconfigure the ARNG Inf Divs to a "Medium" TO&E as described in Romjue's history of the 1980's Army that I posted on an earlier thread. As for the 50 Armd Div, I did read somewhere (of course I can't find it again !!) that one DOA plan was for it to fold in the 42 Inf Div which would alleviate that Div's recruiting problems (they were having a hard time forming a third Bde to replace the 27 Inf Bde which had become a RO Bde). So by the mid 90's (pre-fall of the Wall plans) 42 Inf Div would be Mech in NY/NJ/DE, 26 Inf Div would be Medium in MA/CT/VT and a new Armd Div would be formed somewhere in the South (I would guess utilizing TX's 36 Bde)

[Louied]

The TLAT Bns

[cavtroop]

All-
Is there anything out there that would show US Army Reserve Mechanized Infantry and Armored formations...if they even existed...in the 80's-90's

I was at Ft Custer in Michigan a number of times from 99-03 and remember seeing some stuff posted there for an Armored unit.

Thanks!
Dave

I know there *were* Reserve armored/cav units, but only because when the local reserve armored cavalry unit disbanded (around '94 if my memory serves), about 30 of the guys came over to our NG armored cav unit. For the life of me, I can't remember what unit designation they had before they got disbanded though...

[The Rifleman]

The listing below reflects the NG units and their real-life intended missions:

26th Infantry Division, MA-NG
28th Infantry Division, PA-NG
38th Infantry Division, IN/MI-NG
42nd Infantry Division, NY-NG
47th Infantry Division, MN/IA-NG
These were pure infantry outfits with 1 tk, 1 mech and 7 inf battalions. Generally had Korean/Vietnam-era equipment and were considered to be low-readiness divisions. Not intended for service in NATO, not even intended for overseas duties! There were reports that these were intended for Home Defense only.

29th Infantry Division (Light) VA/MD-NG
Forming during this period and in search of a mission. Was supposed to be the NG "roundout" for the RDF, Norway reinforcement, Korean reinforcement, you get the idea.

35th Infantry Division (Mechanized) NE/KS/KY-NG
40th Infantry Division (Mechanized) CA-NG
The 35th MID had a NATO role (60-90d). The 40th MID, depending on who was in office, was either NATO or Persian Gulf.

49th Armored Division TX-NG
50th Armored Division NY/NJ-NG
The 49th had a NATO role (60-90d) and the 50th was also slatted for NATO (90-120d).

The Separate Infantry Brigades:
29th IB HI-NG was augmentation for the 25th LID
33rd IB IL-NG was another stay-at-home unit
39th IB AR-NG was affiliated with the 101st AAD and was considered to be a future RDF unit.
41st IB OR-NG was augmentation for the 7th LID
45th IB OK-NG was a possible NATO unit
53rd IB FL-NG was a stay-at-home unit
73rd IB OH-NG was a stay-at-home unit
92nd IB PR-NG was a stay-at-home unit
207th IB (Scout) AK-NG was a stay-at-home unit

The Mechanized Infantry Brigades
30th MIB NC-NG was a NATO unit (45-60d)
32nd MIB WI-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d), possible Norway
48th MIB GA-NG was augmentation for the 24th MID
81st MIB WA-NG was augmentation for the 9th ID(M)
218th IB SC-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d)
256th IB LA-NG was augmentation for the 5th MID

The Armored Brigades
30th AB TN-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d)
31st AB AL-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d)
155th AB MS-NG was augmentation for the 1st CD

The Armored Cavalry Regiments
107th ACR OH-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d)
116th ACR ID-NG was a NATO unit (60-90d)
163rd ACR MT-NG was "slotted" for Korea, but would have been most likely committed to NATO
278th ACR TN-NG yet another NATO unit (60-90d)

The "at-home" units were intended to be shifted to cover the border with Mexico and to cover FL and PR from any attempt by Cuba to liberate those areas. There are a couple of articles that the 26th and 47th IDs may have been shipped to Alaska. Considering that these two divisions had little or no aviation support and only 2.5 & 5-ton trucks for transport, they would have been almost immobile in the Alaskan countryside. I would have to stamp that article as a very low probability...

It all gets rather confusing, especially after 1993 when the NG downsized, reflagged and reorganized most of these formations. You were pretty much spot on with everything except....

you left out the 86th Armored Brigade, Vermont National Guard. During the early 80s it was with the 50th Armored Division, thus that formation should read NJ/VT NG. Sometime in the late 80s, the 50th was moved to the 26th ID thus splitting up the neat TOE by giving an infantry division 2 armored battalions and a mec infantry battalion from the 86th Brigade. Then, in 1993 the 26th ID and 50th AD closed. The 86th Brigade went to the 42nd ID, along with the remainder of the the NJ assets of the 50th Armored Division. The 42nd was an infantry division in name only, but in reality had the composition of and armored division. Meanwhile, the remaining units of the 26th merged with the 29th ID.

The problem with any discussion of organization is that the army is constantly opening and closing units or in the case of battalions, renaming them. Its an effort to give all the "flags" a chance to be alive for a while.

[dragoon500ly]

And let's not forget, that if you don't like your unit designation....just wait a year, the U.S. Army will change!!!!

Next up, I Troop, 3rd Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment has just been reflagged as the 9356201st Underwater Mess Kit Repair Team (Stryker)!

[The Rifleman]

And let's not forget, that if you don't like your unit designation....just wait a year, the U.S. Army will change!!!!

Next up, I Troop, 3rd Squadron, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment has just been reflagged as the 9356201st Underwater Mess Kit Repair Team (Stryker)!

LOL, yea. Too many general officers with good ideas... you look at the UK, they can trace their lineage right to who's great grandfather formed what regimement and where it went....