Rules about tracers.

[Marc]

A post in the Firing Ports thread (the use of tracers in the M231's) has awoken my curiosity.

Is anyone using any houserule / rule covering the use of tracers

[Brother in Arms]

In what way for directing fire or damage Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

Brother in Arms

[Marc]

In what way for directing fire or damage Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

Brother in Arms

I was not thinking about the damage, but about the possibility of the firing character make corrections to his/her own fire. May be (I'm only know v2.2 rules) lowering one level in the automatic fire task (losing less bullets in a burst, the number depending of size of the burst). Or allowing the character to add a bonus to the "to hit" number in the following shot just after a tracer, in a SA weapon.

As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.

[Targan]

As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.

In Gunmaster if you are firing multiple rounds (whether it is autofire or other) and you can see the fall of shot the bonuses you get effectively help to negate the effects of recoil. Tracer rounds make that even easier.

[Marc]

It seems to me a good and reasonable solution. For Twilight v2.2 automatic fire rules, the completely negation of all the recoil effect seems to me a little to much, but a partial negation of these effects will work. Thanks for the suggestion, Targan!

[Haven]

FYI - I'll be the Targan to Twilight 2013 here


So far what i've seen in the Twilight 2013 rules is tracer ammo:

Increases 'threat level' for those that you are shooting at if you're trying to suppress an area. Seeing the bullets overhead as well as being shot at.

This comes into play for the CUF (coolness under fire) and you can supress the enemy and the enemy can suppress you - causing inaction or 'breaking'.

Also....

Using tracer ammo in consecutive attacks increases the chance of sucess by a little bit for each round you shoot at the same target using tracer ammo.

I think they are both Stage III rules

[Marc]

Thanks Haven. In the v2.2 set of rules, a danger zone is the area affected by a burst during an entire turn. In my house-rules based in the v2.2 set of rules, when a characters is voluntarily trying to cross a an active danger zone created by a burst, a coolness roll is needed to simulate the effect of suppressive fire. If failed, the character stays in place and can't attempt to cross. The same is valid if, per example, the character is getting out of cover to return fire from a position affected int he same turn by a danger zone. The roll is 1d6 versus the initiative. I think that I could adjust to 1d6+1 versus initiative if traced involved. Again, thanks for your suggestion. Good to have the 2013 point of view.

[Haven]

CUF is its whole mechanic in Twilight 2013 so it comes into play a lot.

Especially if you're using 'Squad' Rules which are neat.

[Tegyrius]

I'm hoping that the morale rules get a workout. My own group doesn't tend toward Stage III combat complexity, so I haven't gotten to toss around threat tokens.

Keith posted our suppressive fire rules (excerpted from the full morale rules set) on the 93GS LiveJournal back in May.

- C.

[Legbreaker]

What's the thoughts on tracer availability in 2000 after several year of war and almost every round having been reloaded several times
While the normal mix is 1 in 5, several years in, my guess is that's dropped significantly, and possibly to the point of near uselessness. Perhaps tracers are saved for special needs only

[leonpoi]

I was not thinking about the damage, but about the possibility of the firing character make corrections to his/her own fire. May be (I'm only know v2.2 rules) lowering one level in the automatic fire task (losing less bullets in a burst, the number depending of size of the burst). Or allowing the character to add a bonus to the "to hit" number in the following shot just after a tracer, in a SA weapon.

As you've said, the major drawback could be lowering one level any observation attempt against the firing character. Or turn it to an automatic task depending of the visibility conditions.

I use v2.2 rules. For tracers I give +1 to hit with automatic fire after the first action of shooting. I find +1 is fine and given that automatic fire is 1/4 skill it adds a bonus without being overpowering.

[Arrissen]

Perhaps tracers are saved for special needs only

Yeah for like marking specific targets by a team leader so as to concentrate firepower or maybe for indicating when your getting to the last few rounds in your magazine in order to facilitate a quick mag change, during an ambush. They are useful in certain circumstances but as stated already they can be a double edged sword, like using an IR laser if the enemy is using night vision.

[Abbott Shaull]

In what way for directing fire or damage Because a tracer should do as much damage as a ball round except with the possibility of catching dry materials on fire.

As for directing fire every 5th round in a belt of machine gun ammo is supposed to be a tracer. The draw back to tracers is people can see where you are shooting from as well.

The 231 uses straight tracers as that is the only way to direct fire for it when its in the firing port. It's really cool to remove from the vehicle and use with beta C mags

Brother in Arms

Oh, NO. Not remove the M231 from the vehicle to use as weapon. Runs and hide before that debates starts...lol

[HorseSoldier]

Tracer ammo is, I would think, exceedingly scarce by 2000. Probably to the point that most units just don't have any available at all or maybe keep some (and other pre-nuke small arms ammo) set aside for major conventional combat ops and use lower quality reloads for marauder suppression and small scale raids and such.

Machine gun sights are mostly pretty crappy if you're free gunning and not working a T&E on a tripod. MGs overcome this by using tracers -- so I wouldn't give a bonus for tracer use, I'd give a penalty for it's absence. The solution would be a spotter with optics calling fall off the shots and making adjustments.

[dragoon500ly]

What's the thoughts on tracer availability in 2000 after several year of war and almost every round having been reloaded several times
While the normal mix is 1 in 5, several years in, my guess is that's dropped significantly, and possibly to the point of near uselessness. Perhaps tracers are saved for special needs only

That's my thinking as well, with smalls arms ammo being reloaded, tracers would become a seldom if ever seen item.

A bit o'real life, almost all SAA tracers have different ballistics than normal jacketed rounds. I was always taught that you watched for the dust from the impact and then walked your rounds in, it was faster and thus used less ammo.

Besides, if you pull the tracers from the belt and then make a belt of nothing but tracers, the light show was impressive!