Rules about tracers.

[dragoon500ly]

Oh, NO. Not remove the M231 from the vehicle to use as weapon. Runs and hide before that debates starts...lol

Sound of hatch slamming shut and a paniced scream of "NOT THE DISMOUNTED 231 AGAIN!!!!!!"

The horror, the inhumanity!!!

[Abbott Shaull]

Sound of hatch slamming shut and a paniced scream of "NOT THE DISMOUNTED 231 AGAIN!!!!!!"

The horror, the inhumanity!!!

Yeah but it seems that GDW loved the idea. Strangely enough I would think many of these weapons that had survived would be stripped of anything that might be useful to keeping the M16s around operational.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Machine gun sights are mostly pretty crappy if you're free gunning and not working a T&E on a tripod. MGs overcome this by using tracers -- so I wouldn't give a bonus for tracer use, I'd give a penalty for it's absence. The solution would be a spotter with optics calling fall off the shots and making adjustments.

Machineguns aren't really meant to be accurate in the conventional sense so the sights don't have to be as good as an individual rifle, their purpose after all is to throw a whole lot of lead into an area in a short space of time.

As for tracers, with the chance that an area being gunned up is also kicking up a lot of dust, tracers can help you walk onto target. The Viet Cong and NVA used to have shooters with magazines of 1:1 tracer on either flank of an attack group and then shoot into the target so night attacks could be coordinated.

Tracer ammunition can also be made in your own toolshed if you have the right chemicals and tools. There's an article here about making your own tracers.
Keep in mind that I mention this strictly for educational purposes

[dragoon500ly]

Machineguns aren't really meant to be accurate in the conventional sense so the sights don't have to be as good as an individual rifle, their purpose after all is to throw a whole lot of lead into an area in a short space of time.

As for tracers, with the chance that an area being gunned up is also kicking up a lot of dust, tracers can help you walk onto target. The Viet Cong and NVA used to have shooters with magazines of 1:1 tracer on either flank of an attack group and then shoot into the target so night attacks could be coordinated.

Tracer ammunition can also be made in your own toolshed if you have the right chemicals and tools. There's an article here about making your own tracers.
Keep in mind that I mention this strictly for educational purposes

Never really had that many problems with dust kicking up on the target, we always had it hammered into our semi-thick heads to fire short bursts of 2-3 seconds duration, then reacquire the target with the sights and let fly again. At the time I was in there were a lot of Vietnam vets still in service and almost to a man, they loathed tracers. "Sure they let you track in on the target, they also let the target track in on you." was a common comment on the ole firing range.

Boils down to what the gunner wanted to use, if there was time to prepare the belts, then tracers would be pulled. The real question is just how much time a unit reloading its own brass would spend in making tracers.

[Legbreaker]

I'm fairly sure that reloaded tracers wouldn't have the same ballistics as factory produced ones also, so chances are they'd actually harm accuracy to some degree.
It's my understanding (based on what I learnt nearly 20 years ago and observed on the range) that tracers don't begin to glow until they've travelled approximately 100 metres (give or take). Only a fraction of a second, but in close contacts they're completely useless.

[dragoon500ly]

From the gunner's seat it always seemed that tracers would start almost as soon as they entered the periscope field of view. I would guesstimate the tracers are more likely to start in they 20-25 meter bracket.

Always enjoyed watching Ma Deuce tracers....because the damned things would go every where except where the ball rounds were striking. The M-240 stuff seemed a bit more accurate, but was still off by a margin.

[Adm.Lee]

Besides, if you pull the tracers from the belt and then make a belt of nothing but tracers, the light show was impressive!

On a different gaming forum, a fellow who claimed to be a Vietnam vet said that his whole company opened up a 'mad minute' with every M14 loaded with an all-tracer magazine. He said it looked like Star Wars, and really spooked the VC!

[Legbreaker]

There's obviously variations in between calibres, chemical composition and manufacturers, but as the eye can't register things moving very fast, I tend to believe what we were taught over what may have been observed.

[Panther Al]

Reminds me of a Gunnery at Carson years ago. We had to pull all the tracers from *all* the 30 cal in the troop and gather it up in one area to turn in at the end of gunnery since weather conditions indicated that tracers might start a fire. Well, at the end of gunnery (And personally shooting a 901) we had a few days of rain. Platoon Leader looks at me and says, "Hey, we still got all that tracer And do we still have that shoot out barrel" I think to myself: Oh, I like what he is thinking: So, we linked up a full 7k tracer belt, soaked a roll of TP in JP8, stuck it on a heat spike, and really gave the troop a show at our last night fire! At the end of the belt (Shot in a number of very long bursts) the barrel for the 240 was a smoothbore. Plenty of ass chewing from higher, but, to give the PL credit, he took the heat round, telling higher we did it as his instructions. He was safe: Daddy had stars on his shoulders.

[dragoon500ly]

On a different gaming forum, a fellow who claimed to be a Vietnam vet said that his whole company opened up a 'mad minute' with every M14 loaded with an all-tracer magazine. He said it looked like Star Wars, and really spooked the VC!

I've heard that story at several veteran conventions too....it's pretty much a universal standard that its 1 in 5...so when you some a hundred tracers flying your way.....I'd be thinking about those five hundred bullets I don't see too!!!

[dragoon500ly]

Reminds me of a Gunnery at Carson years ago. We had to pull all the tracers from *all* the 30 cal in the troop and gather it up in one area to turn in at the end of gunnery since weather conditions indicated that tracers might start a fire. Well, at the end of gunnery (And personally shooting a 901) we had a few days of rain. Platoon Leader looks at me and says, "Hey, we still got all that tracer And do we still have that shoot out barrel" I think to myself: Oh, I like what he is thinking: So, we linked up a full 7k tracer belt, soaked a roll of TP in JP8, stuck it on a heat spike, and really gave the troop a show at our last night fire! At the end of the belt (Shot in a number of very long bursts) the barrel for the 240 was a smoothbore. Plenty of ass chewing from higher, but, to give the PL credit, he took the heat round, telling higher we did it as his instructions. He was safe: Daddy had stars on his shoulders.

And that's game, set and match to the Looie!!!


We used to do the TP roll soaked in gas when we fired HEAT rounds...IMMPRESSIVE muzzle blast!!!!

[dragoon500ly]

There's obviously variations in between calibres, chemical composition and manufacturers, but as the eye can't register things moving very fast, I tend to believe what we were taught over what may have been observed.

Too true....

But I am reminded of hand grenade training back in basic...our drill sergeant told us that the grenade had a five second fuse. He pulled the pin, let fly the safety lever and threw....a minute later it finally blew. Base EOD got called in and they pulled the firing assemblies and inspected the fuses....instead of the correct fuse, the manufactuer had substituted a longer-burning fuse.

Training is good, but never forget that your weapon system is built by the lowest bidder!

And there is an excellent chance that the factory worker is hung over and having a bad day!!

[Legbreaker]

Australian troops early on in Vietnam had all their grenades pulled - apparently instantaneous fuses had gotten into the mix and after one had it go off in his hand....

Good news was they still had claymores - wire them up before going into an assault, throw into the enemy bunker and hit the trigger. MUCH more satisfying than a grrenade.

[Panther Al]

And that's game, set and match to the Looie!!!


We used to do the TP roll soaked in gas when we fired HEAT rounds...IMMPRESSIVE muzzle blast!!!!

yeah: you should have heard the tower spas out when we opened up, fireball bigger than the tank, the tracers loaded up like they was left a trace that looked more like a laser beam than anything else. Tower was totally spastastic.

[Abbott Shaull]

The wake up call for hand grenade training was how they express the fuse was suppose to be 5 seconds, but if you were cooking them off. Well if you got to 3 it was about time to get rid of the damn thing as they would state the normal fuse time was 3-5 seconds...lol That a wake up call they restated a few times even though they had just told us, the fuse were suppose to be 5 second fuses.

So yeah one of those time where we got the items were being made by the lowest bidder....