Airliner Shot Down over Ukraine

[Cdnwolf]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.htmlhpt=hp_t1

Any thoughts

[kato13]

Been following it since the first hour of the story.

98+% sure it was the separatists. The tweet claiming they had shot down the AN-26 (which they later removed) and the intercepted radio/cell communication where the person on the ground pretty much said "It was 100% a civie" and "There are seats everywhere" all hit the web too quickly to be non planned fakes.

The other 2-% being that it was a planned action to shame the separatists.

The fact that the black boxes were collected and sent to Moscow also does not bode well for the truth coming out of that data source.

This is not what Putin wanted, and when he is disappointed bad things can happen.

[schnickelfritz]

Supposedly shot down at normal cruising altitude of 33,000ft. That narrows it down to the latest incarnation of the SA-8, or to the SA-10/11/12. The claim is a SA-11 fired by pro-Russia separatists.

If true, my guess is that they wanted to shoot down something after shooting down an Ukrainian An-26 over the weekend. How they did not see the IFF transponder code is a mystery. I'll give them the credit that this was a horrible accident...targeting the wrong plane because it was through to be, what, an IL-76

I'd say the crew needs to hand themselves over to authorities and that the launcher(s) need to be scoured from the Earth, but I'm not about to believe either will happen.

I find it unlikely that a Ukrainian Gov't crew would do this....it's not like the seperatists would have attack aircraft of any kind, nor would they fly at that altitude, deaf and dumb. It makes no sense for any potential target (say Russian aircraft) wouldn't be flying at anything but NOE.

My $.05

Dave

[schnickelfritz]

Black boxes sent to Moscow, for what, "safekeeping" I'm glad the old USSR era playbook wasn't lost, good God.

I mean, Holy crap, the souls of the ones slain and those who are left to grieve those lost deserve so much better I am at a loss for words.

-Dave

[Targan]

The Russian government and military have blood on their hands, no doubt about it. Maybe, just maybe, the pro-Russian rebels managed to take a self propelled SAM launcher from the Ukrainian armed forces. I guess it's possible they might have been able to comb their ranks for people with all the necessary skills and training to maintain and operate all those complex systems. But I think it most likely that the Russians handed the rebels several launcher vehicles and a bunch of missiles, spares and probably even trained personnel a couple of months ago, and now they're thinking "whoops".

It's a shocking, entirely preventable tragedy but in terms of the outcome of the insurgency in Ukraine, it doesn't matter anyway. The Russians are just waiting for Ukraine to be conflict-ravaged failed state and then they can roll in as "peacekeepers" and take those parts of Ukraine that they want. And in terms of military intervention, nobody will do a damned thing, and we all know why.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

There's no atrocity Putin won't sign off on.

[Targan]

This is what you get when you put a former KGB colonel in charge of a country like Russia. Putin is a fair dinkum nasty piece of work. A pox on his house and his junk.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

The Sovs - excuse me russians moved in and stole the black boxes from the site already. "To Moscow, for evaluation".

Jesus christ fuck those people.

[Olefin]

Frankly if our President has any balls he should tell the Russians that one more event like this of any sort and the US will consider the Ukranian "separatists" to be terrorists and deal with them accordingly with all the force that the US can muster - or that they will begin to escort all civilian airliners in the area and engage and destroy any threats that are detected

[mikeo80]

Frankly if our President has any balls he should tell the Russians that one more event like this of any sort and the US will consider the Ukranian "separatists" to be terrorists and deal with them accordingly with all the force that the US can muster - or that they will begin to escort all civilian airliners in the area and engage and destroy any threats that are detected

Ummm.... I understand your anger and frustration. As many have said before, there is very little the USA can (or will) do about this. NATO is a toothless old dog. I am wondering how long it will before people start shooting down airliners EVERYWHERE!!! There is almost NO way to stop a SAM from downing an airliner. Well, there is, but it would cost BILLIONS. Not going to happen. THat would interrupt profits.

My $0.02

Mike

[RN7]

Who's to blame

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

Most of the casualties are Western Europeans or people who hold European citizenship. Putin is in big trouble now, Europe will fully support American sanctions against Russia which are already strangling the Russian economy. The Russian separatists who fired the missile are going to disappear very quickly.

[Olefin]

Actually there is a lot we can do about this - escort the airliners using aircraft configured as Wild Weasels - if they detect the systems locking on they can launch and take them out. But it would require the US or Europeans agreeing to escort them - much like the US escorted tankers during the Iran Iraq War.

But it takes political will that Obama doesnt have and backbone that the Europeans dont have.

[stormlion1]

Just why in the hell are civilian aircraft flying over what is essentially a warzone I'm not surprised that this has happened, I'm surprised it hadn't happened sooner!

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Putin is in big trouble now,

he is in nothing now; our pResident is weak and ineffective, and Putin knows it. Russia waited for Bush to be very nearly out of office before starting shit in Georgia, they (correctly) assumed he wouldn't want to rock the boat prior to exiting office. Forty seconds after making an announcement about this yesterday, Obama was cracking jokes with the press about unrelated matters. All he cares about is pressing the flesh to try and stop the savage beating his party will take in the midterms, and the Russians know that.

Shit they could fly a TU-95 over NYC with the bomb bay doors open and a city-killer hanging underneath and we wouldn't do anything

[stormlion1]

Obama and his party know there in trouble at the moment and signs show there going to be reduced to a minority in the Senate and lose seats in Congress. And that is 100 times more important to them than a plane being shot down over the Ukraine. I have to ask though, don't Civilian Airliners have anything to detect a missile lock A warning light Anything I know the occurrence is rare but it has happened before.