Western Mediterranean OOB

[Mohoender]

There was little information on that part of the world but someone put some element at some point and of course I collected it. As a result, I came up with something that I use as a base for my own.

First there is Italy

Italian Army
Tenente-Colonello Roberto Falvi

1st Italian Army
1st Aviation Group
Railway Engineer Regiment
1st Anti-Aircraft Command
1st Chemical Battalion

III Corps – Milan
Centauro Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Cremona Infantry Brigade (Motorized)
Corps Troops
4th Infantry Battalion
7th Infantry Battalion
3rd Aviation Group
3rd Artillery Group (155mm Towed)
3rd Anti-Aircraft Group
3rd Engineer Battalion
IV Alpini Corps – Bolzano
Cadore Alpini Brigade
Julia Alpini Brigade
Orobica Alpini Brigade
Taurinense Alpini Brigade
Tredentina Alpini Brigade
Corps Troops
Aosta Alpini Infantry Battalion
Alpini Airborne Company
3rd Armored Cavalry Squadron
4th Aviation Group
4th Artillery Regiment (Heavy) (203mm SP, MLRS)
10th Artillery Battalion (155mm SP)
5th Anti-Aircraft Group
2nd Engineer Battalion
5th Engineer Battalion

V Corps - Venice
Ariete Armored Division: 4000 troops, 36 Ariete
Mantova Infantry Division (Mechanized): 4000 troops, 20 Leopard 1
Folgore Infantry Division (Mechanized): 900 troops, 6 Centauro B-1
Corps Troops
7th Infantry Battalion
48th Infantry Battalion
5th Aviation Group
27th Artillery Regiment (Heavy)(203mm SP, MLRS)
5th Anti-Aircraft Group
1st Engineer Battalion
3rd Engineer Battalion
5th Engineer Battalion
3rd Acquileia SSM Brigade
1st Artillery Battalion (Heavy)(203mm Towed)
9th Artillery Battalion (Heavy)(203mm Towed)
13th commando Battalion

Military Region 7 - Florence
Folgore Airborne Brigade - Livorno
Friuli Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Military Region 8 – Rome
Granatieri di Sardegna Infantry Brigade (Mechanized)
Acqui Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Military Region 10 – Naples
Pinerolo Infantry Brigade (Mechanized)

San Marco Marine Battalion Group - Brindsi

Military Region 11 – Palermo
Aosta Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Notes:
Italy maintains a nation police force which is paramilitary (Carabinieri) which numbers approximately 90,000 but is dispersed in Platoon Sized elements throughout the country.

Concerning the air force, the OOB is an idea of what could have survived. However, this is based on todays figure and the T2K figures would be highly different: http://www.scramble.nl/airforces.htm.
Aeronautica Militare Italiana
4o Stormo
Aircraft: 5 F-104, 3 MB-339, 3 Warrior.
31o Stormo
Aircraft: 5 G-222, 4 ATR, 2 Defender.
41o Stormo
Aircraft: 2 Atlantic, 1 AMX, 1 Warrior.
51o Stormo
Aircraft: 4 Tornado, 4 AMX, 3 MB-339, 3 Defender.
Marina Stazione Elicotteri
Aircrafts: 5 EH-101, 3 A-109
5o Reggimento Aviazione dell' Esrcito "Rigel"
Aircrafts: 2 Do-128-6, 2 Defender, 3 OH-58C, 3 A-129, 5 A-109, 7 AB-212

[Mohoender]

Then there is Spain and Portugal

PORTUGAL & SPAIN

Portuguese Army
Northern Military Region
1st Infantry Brigade (Composite, 1800 troops, 33 AFV)
1st Special Forces Brigade (800 troops)


Spanish Army
I Corps (Intervention Force)
1st Brunete Armored Division (4000 troops, 74 AFV)
2nd Guzman el Bueno Infantry Division (Mechanized, 5500 troops)
3rd Maestrazgo Infantry Division (Motorized, 3500 troops)
Roger de Lauria Parachute Battalion (350 troops)
Ceuta Artillery Brigade (1000 troops, 45 field artillery & AA)

Military Region I (Madrid)
I Territorial Infantry Brigade (2400 troops)
71st Anti-Aircraft Brigade (1000 troops, 48 AA)

Military Region II (Seville)
II Territorial Infantry Brigade (2000 troops)

Military Region III (Valencia)
6th Artillery Brigade (Mixed, 1700 troops, 35 field artillery)

Military Region IV (Barcelona)
4th Urgel Infantry Division (Mountain, 4000 troops, 72 field artillery & AA)

Military Region V (Saragossa)
Alpine Infantry Brigade (High Altitude, 2000 troops)

Military Region VI (Burgos)
6th Navarra Infantry Division (Mountain, 3000 troops, 48 field artillery & AA)

Military Region VII (Vallodolid)
VII Territorial Infantry Brigade (2400 troops, 12 AFV)

Military Region VIII (Coruna)
VIII Territorial Infantry Brigade (1500 troops, 15 AFV)

Military Region IX
IX Territorial Infantry Brigade (1500 troops, 35 AFV)

Balearics Command
23rd Infantry Brigade (2100 troops)

Los Guardias Civiles de los Ejercito do Madrid
Location: Madrid, Seville and other surrounding areas.
Manpower: 9,000
Vehicles: 12 EE-9 Cascavels, 100 Commando V-150, 1000 mounted troops)
The Guardia Civile is a state police force which mostly patrols the roads and highways, also mounting Trains as need be. They are commanded by Lieutenant-General Manuel de Torres, a man with pale eyes and Brutal tendencies. This force is fairly well disciplined with a good number of experienced personnel.


Royal Spanish Air Force
FAMET (Fazeras Aero Moviles des Ejercitos do Terra)
(Spanish Army Aviation Command)
Location: Madrid
Manpower: 300
Vehicles: 5 OH-58, 9 CH-47, 24 UH-1

Mando Aviaction Tacticale (Tactical Air Command)
Location: Zaragosa, Las Palmas, Tablada
Manpower: 550
Vehicles: 2 P-3 Orions, 4 KC-130, 4 C-130 Hercules, 9 C-212

Mando de la Defensa Area (Air Defense Command)
Location: Torrejon
Manpower: 650
Assets: 4 F-4s, 6 Tornado, 15 F-16s


Allied Naval Forces Southwest
Royal Spanish Fleet
Carrier Principe de Asturias (5 AV-8 Harriers, 6 Seahawk Helicopters)
Beleares Class Frigates Cataluna and Extremadura
Descubierta Class Frigates Diana and Infanta Cristina
Serviola Class Offshore patrol ships Serviola, Centinela, Vigia, Atalaya

I have not used this yet and as a result what I use for my own remain very similar to the general archive. Marc, I hope you'll find something interesting out of this.

[Mohoender]

First WMed archive (made by Fighting Flamingo)

Operations in Western Mediterranean (Summer 1997)

The entry of Italy into the Third World War as part of the Mediterranean Pact on 2 July 1997 in support of her Greek ally left the NATO position in Southern Europe in disarray. Much like the situation which had confronted the Allies during the Second World War, Italys geographical position dominating the center of the Mediterranean Basin threatened to sever NATOs sea lines of communication across to Turkey, Yugoslavia, and Romania.

Turkey and Yugoslavia were being supplied with fuel and some munitions by sea, and the were dependent on the sea lanes to support the war effort. Yugoslavia in turn was sending munitions across its border into Romania, to support their resistance to the Warsaw Pact invasion. With Italys entry into the war, Yugoslavias ports were closed to NATO shipping, and the convoy route to Turkey subject to naval and air attack until the Italian Navy and Air force could be neutralized.

When the 1st Italian Army entered into Austria and Yugoslavia, then pressed on into Germany, SACEUR needed to reopen the sea lanes and split Italian Recourses, perhaps even bring the Italian military to a logistical breaking point.

CINCAFSOUTH (WEST) had significant forces to bear against the Italians In the form of the I Iberian Corps (an amalgamation of the I Portuguese and I Spanish Corps), the 173rd US Airborne Brigade, and the 8th Marine Regiment, and the Canadian Airborne Regiment.

The Italian Army was heavily engaged at the time. The Italian III and V Corps were forcing their way through the Austrian Alps into Bavaria, while the V Corps was advancing through Slovenia attempting to link up with allied Hungarian forces moving into North Eastern Serbia. While resistance was fierce on both fronts, the Italian Army was moving forwards as the bulk of the defending forces were on other fronts and still redeploying to meet the Italian threat.

CINCAFSOUTH devised a plan to cripple Italian Naval and Air operations in the Mediterranean. On 29 July 1997 an carefully orchestrated air campaign was unleashed on Italy from Spain, and US Aircraft Carriers. US F117 aircraft operating from Spain attacked the air defense network in Sicily and Sardinia, followed by F111 strike aircraft which attacked airfields up and down the length of the southern half of the Italian Peninsula. US Naval aircraft searched for and attacked the Italian surface fleet. The Spanish and Portuguese Air forces where responsible to attack airfields in Sicily, and Sardinia respectively. Naples, Palermo, Cagliari, and Taranto were subject to attack by a rain of TLAMs. By the end of 2 August, the Italian surface fleet had lost most of its major units, including the Garibaldi which had been struck by no less than 7 Harpoon ASMs before she broke in half when her magazine exploded. What remained of the Italian Surface fleet began moving northward into the Adriatic.

Operation Carthaginian

Operation Carthaginian began on 1 August with the Airdrop of the US 173rd Airborne Brigade, and the Canadian Airborne Regiment outside of Messina, on Sicily. They were supported by the landing of the 8th US Marine Regiment at Marsala. On the morning of 3 August, the Canadian Airborne had seized the municipal airfield, and a stream of C130 and C17 aircraft began airlifting in the Espana Airmobile Brigade. Italian forces in Sicily were largely centered on the Aosta Infantry Brigade (Motorized) concentrated outside of Palermo, and 1 Brigade of Carabinieri disperced throughout the island in platoon sized formations in almost every town.

The morning of 2 August the Iberian Airborne Brigade Group (formed from the Espana, and Portuguese Light Airborne Brigade) dropped on Cagliaris airfield, and the Portuguese Marine Brigade made an unopposed landing at Alghero, and began moving at once on Sassari. By Evening of the 4th, all Carabinieri resistance had ended on Sardinia.

On Sicily, the Aosta Brigade began moving on Messina, ignoring the landing at Marsala. Meanwhile, on the mainland the San Marino Marine Battalion Group attempted an amphibious crossing of the Straits of Massina on the night of 3 August. The Italian Marines where decimated by the American paratroopers who where prepared for that eventuality. Later, at dawn of the 5th the Spanish Marines began landing at Licata, and began advancing towards Syracuse. On the 6th US Marines entered Palermo while greatly reduced Aosta Brigade battered itself to pieces against the American and Canadian paratroopers whom had been digging in to Messina for days. Enroute, the Italian Brigade had been under constant air attack by USMC and Spanish Harrier and USMC Cobra Aircraft. The North Coastal Road became a highway of death.
On the mainland, almost immediately the Pinerolo Infantry Brigade (Mechanized) began moving down the coast from Naples to link up with the San Marino Battalion. It too was subject to air attack for the majority of its journey down the coastal road. It was met in Villa San Giovanni by a tactical nuclear strike from the US (100kt) on the 7th, making it very clear to the Italian Government that no reinforcement from the mainland would be possible.

This strike marked the end of active combat operations in Sicily, following the strike, the Aosta Brigade surrendered to the NATO Forces on the Island and the Carabinieri had been overwhelmed, having been deployed piecemeal across the Island. The last major Town to fall under NATO control was Catania into which Spanish Marines moved on the 9th.
The US and Canadian forces were replaced in the next month by the remainder of the Iberian Corps following the collapse of the Turkish Front, due to the one sided use of nuclear weapons.

NATO Operation Carthaginian OOB

Sardinia
Iberian Airborne Brigade
Portuguese Marine Brigade
Sicily
Spanish Marine Brigade
Espana Airmobile Brigade
173rd US Airborne Brigade
8th US Marine Regiment
Canadian Airborne Regiment

[Mohoender]

Second WMed archive

Portuguese Army

I Corps
1st Infantry Brigade (Composite)
Cascadores Infantry Bn
1st Special Forces Brigade
Light Airborne Brigade
Fuzilerios Navais Brigade (Marine Infantry)

Northern Military Region
Porto Infantry Regiment
Chaves Infantry Regiment
Vila Real Infantry Regiment
Braga Cavalry Regiment
Espinho Engineer Regiment
Lancer Squadron

Central Military Region
Abrantes Infantry Regiment
Castelo Branco Infantry Regiment
Tomer Infantry Regiment
Viseu Infantry Regiment
Aveiro Infantry Battalion
Leira Artillery Battalion
Coimbra Lancer Squadron

Lisbon Military Region
Queluz Infantry Regiment
5th Infantry Battalion
Lisboa Artillery Regiment
Lisboa Engineer Regiment
Lisboa Lancer Regiment

Southern Military Region
Beja Infantry Regiment
Elvas Infantry Regiment
Faro Infantry Regiment
Estremoz Cavalry Regiment
Sul Lancer Squadron

Madeira Defence Command
Funchal Infantry Regiment
2nd Garrison Artillery Group
Funchal Lancer Squadron


Azores Defense Command
Angro do Heroismo Infantry Regiment
1st Garrision Artillery Group
Ponta Delgada Lancer Squadron

[Mohoender]

Third WMed archive

Spanish Army
1 January 1997

I Corps (Intervention Force)
1st Brunete Armored Division
2nd Guzman el Bueno Infantry Division (Mechanized)
3rd Maestrazgo Infantry Division (Motorized)
Espana Airborne Brigade
Espana Airmobile Brigade
Jarama Armored Recon Brigade
I Corps Aviation Brigade
I Corps Artillery Brigade

Military Region I (Madrid)
I Territorial Infantry Brigade
71st Anti-Aircraft Brigade
Royal Guard Regiment

Military Region II (Seville)
II Territorial Infantry Brigade
Straits Artillery Brigade (Anti-Aircraft)
4th Artillery Brigade (Mixed)

Military Region III (Valencia)
III Territorial Infantry Brigade
6th Artillery Brigade (Mixed)

Military Region IV (Barcelona)
4th Urgel Infantry Division (Mountain)
7th Artillery Brigade (Mixed)
72nd Anti-Aircraft Brigade

Military Region V (Saragossa)
V Territorial Infantry Brigade
Alpine Infantry Brigade (High Altitude)

Military Region VI (Burgos)
6th Navarra Infantry Division (Mountain)
1st Artillery Brigade (Mixed)

Military Region VII (Vallodolid)
VII Territorial Infantry Brigade

Military Region VIII (Coruna)
VIII Territorial Infantry Brigade
2nd Artillery Brigade (Mixed)
3rd Artillery Brigade (Mixed)

Military Region IX
IX Territorial Infantry Brigade

Ceuta and Melilla Command

Canaries and Balearics Command

Spanish Marine Brigade


Italian Army
1 June 1997

1st Italian Army
1st Aviation Group
Railway Engineer Regiment
1st Anti-Aircraft Command
1st Chemical Battalion

III Corps Milan
Centauro Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Cremona Infantry Brigade (Motorized)
Corps Troops
4th Infantry Battalion
7th Infantry Battalion
3rd Aviation Group
3rd Artillery Group (155mm Towed)
3rd Anti-Aircraft Group
3rd Engineer Battalion
IV Alpini Corps Bolzano
Cadore Alpini Brigade
Julia Alpini Brigade
Orobica Alpini Brigade
Taurinense Alpini Brigade
Tredentina Alpini Brigade
Corps Troops
Aosta Alpini Infantry Battalion
Alpini Airborne Company
3rd Armored Cavalry Squadron
4th Aviation Group
4th Artillery Regiment (Heavy) (203mm SP, MLRS)
10th Artillery Battalion (155mm SP)
5th Anti-Aircraft Group
2nd Engineer Battalion
5th Engineer Battalion

V Corps - Venice
Ariete Armored Division
Mantova Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Folgore Infantry Division (Mechanized)
Corps Troops
7th Infantry Battalion
48th Infantry Battalion
5th Aviation Group
27th Artillery Regiment (Heavy)(203mm SP, MLRS)
5th Anti-Aircraft Group
1st Engineer Battalion
3rd Engineer Battalion
5th Engineer Battalion
3rd Acquileia SSM Brigade
1st Artillery Battalion (Heavy)(203mm Towed)
9th Artillery Battalion (Heavy)(203mm Towed)
13th commando Battalion

Military Region 7 - Florence
Folgore Airborne Brigade - Livorno
Friuli Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Military Region 8 Rome
Granatieri di Sardegna Infantry Brigade (Mechanized)
Acqui Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Military Region 10 Naples
Pinerolo Infantry Brigade (Mechanized)

San Marco Marine Battalion Group - Brindsi

Military Region 11 Palermo
Aosta Infantry Brigade (Motorized)

Notes:
Once Italy enters war, IV Alpini Corps begins forcing passes in the Austian Tyrol, to allow III Corps to move into Bavaria and engage NATO forces. V Corps moves to Yugoslav border, then enters Slovenia. The Folgore Airborne Brigade and San Marco Marine Battalion Group are used as raiding forces along the Dalmatian cost.
The remaining 4 infantry Brigades from Military Regions 7,8,10, and 11 are dedicated for regional defense within the Italy, and have limited mobility.
Italy maintains a nation police force which is paramilitary (Carabinieri) which numbers approximately 90,000 but is dispersed in Platoon Sized elements throughout the country.

[Mohoender]

Fourth WMed archive

Joint Command Southwestern Europe (Subordinate to AFSOUTH)

Allied Air Forces Southwest
(Note: all air operations are restricted, and any number of rotary or fixed wing assets could
be grounded for lack of fuel or parts)
USAF
406th USAF Tactical Support Group
Location: Foix, France
(7 Kiowa Scouts, 4 AH-64s, 8 OH-58s, 9 UH-60 Blackhawks, 250 USAF personnel)

FAMET (Fazeras Aero Moviles des Ejercitos do Terra)
(Spanish Army Aviation Command)
Location: Madrid
Manpower: 300
Vehicles: 5 OH-58, 9 CH-47, 24 UH-1

Mando Aviaction Tacticale (Tactical Air Command)
Location: Zaragosa, Las Palmas, Tablada
Manpower: 500
Vehicles: 3 KC-130 Refueling Planes, 4 C-130 Hercules, 2 P-3 Orions

Mando de la Defensa Area (Air Defense Command)
Location: Torrejon
Manpower: 600
Vehicles: 4 F-4s, 15 F-16s

Allied Naval Forces Southwest

Royal Spanish Fleet
Carrier Principe de Asturias (5 AV-8 Harriers, 6 Seahawk Helicopters)
Beleares Class Frigates Cataluna and Extremadura
Descubierta Class Frigates Diana and Infanta Cristina
Serviola Class Offshore patrol ships Serviola, Centinela, Vigia, Atalaya

Royal Navy
Duke Class Frigate Montrose
Peacock Class Patrol Ship Plover
HMS Gibraltar (Gibraltar Defense Forces Naval Contingent, consisting of naval radar, signals and weather
And radar detachment, harbormaster, one company of Royal Marines and an aviation flight of 3 Lynxes)

USN
Avenger Class Minesweeper Gladiator

Land Forces Southwest

Royal Spanish Intervention Force (this is facing the French Rapid Reaction Force, which it has driven back past Toulouse. The 4th Airmobile Division, the 6th Light Armored Division, the 9th Marine Division, Foreign Legion Operational Group and the 27th Mountain Division are the main French forces opposing them)

Brunete Armored Division
Subordination: RSIF
Location: Beziers, France
Manpower: 4000
AFVs: 74 Leopard II
(Consists of the Villaviciosa Recon Battalion, 11th Artillery Btn, 1st Eng. Btn, 11th Mech Brigade (55th Uad Ras Mech. Btn, 6th Saboya Mot. Btn) 12th Armored Brigade (61st Alcazar de Toledo Armored Rgt, 31st Asturias Mech Btn)

Guzman el Bueno Mechanized Division
Subordination: RSIF
Location: Montpelier, France
Manpower: 5500
(Consists of the 7th Sagunto Recon Btn, 14th Artillery Btn, 2nd Eng. Btn, 21st Mech Brigade (16th Castilla Mech Btn, 2nd La Reina Motorized Btn) 22nd Motorized Brigade (19th Pavia Mot Btn, 22nd Alava Mot Btn) 23rd Motorized Brigade (9th Soria Mech Btn, Res Inf Btn)

Maestrazgo Motorized Division
Subordination: RSIF
Location: Toulouse and Mountauban, France
Manpower: 3500
(Consists of the 8th Lusitania Recon Btn, 17th Art Btn, 3rd Eng Btn, 31st Motorized Brigade (14th Tetuan Motorized Btn, 21st Vizcaya Mech Btn) 32nd Motorized Brigade (13th Mallorca Motorized Btn, 18th Espana Mechanized Btn)

1st Portuguese Independent Mixed Brigade
Subordination: RSIF
Location: West of Toulouse
Manpower: 1800
Tanks: 33 M60A4
(2 motorized infantry btns, 1 cavalry squadron, 1 artillery group, 1 Engineer Company)

Roger de Lauria Parachute Battalion
Subordination: RSIF
Location: various locations along the front in small units
Manpower: 350

Ceuta Artillery Brigade
Subordination: RSIF
Location: Toulouse, France
Manpower: 1000
Anti Aircraft and Field Artillery: 45 (Note there is a lack of materiel to make this unit fully
effective at the moment)


Territorial Defense Units

Region One (Madrid)

1st Territorial Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 2400

71st Anti Aircraft Brigade
Manpower: 1000
Anti Aircraft Artillery: 48

Region Two (Seville)

2nd Territorial Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 2000

Region Three (Valencia)

6th Mixed Artillery Brigade
Manpower: 1700
Anti Aircraft and Field Artillery: 35 (note: this unit is acting more as a motorized infantry unit,
Since it lacks shells and missiles, though a few are stockpiled in case of a desperate need)

Region Four (Barcelona)

4th Urgel Mountain Division
Manpower: 4000
Anti Aircraft and Field Artillery: 72 (unlike other similar divisions the individual vehicles are stocked
Enough for at least one engagement)
(Consists of the 41st Brigade of Infantry, 7th Mixed Artillery Brigade, 72nd AA Brigade)

Region Five (Sargossa)

High Mountain Brigade
Manpower: 2000 (light infantry)

Region Six (Burgos)

6th Navarra Mountain Division (61st Brigade, 1 Mixed Art Brigade)
Manpower: 3000
Anti Aircraft and Field Artillery: 48 (armed equivalent to the 4th Urgel Mtn Div)

Region Seven (Valladolid)

7th Territorial Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 2400
AFVs: 12 M60A4

Region Eight (Coruna)

8th Territorial Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 1500
AFVS: 15 M60A4

Region Nine (Granada)

9th Territorial Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 1500
AFVs: 35 M48

23rd Infantry Brigade
Manpower: 2100

Gibraltar Defense Force (British)

Royal Gibraltar Regiment
Location: Gibraltar
Subordination: Gibraltar Defense Force
Manpower: 700

26th Field Artillery Regiment
Location: Gibraltar
Subordination: Gibraltar Defense Force
Manpower: 250
Artillery: 35 SP 155mm Howitzers, 12 203mm SP Howitzers, 12 Rapiers

Los Guardias Civiles de los Ejercito do Madrid

Location: Madrid, Seville and other surrounding areas.
Manpower: 9,000
Vehicles: 12 EE-9 Cascavels, 46 Commando V-300, 54 Commando V-150, 1000 mounted troops)
The Guardia Civile is a state police force which mostly patrols the roads and highways, also mounting
Trains as need be. They are commanded by Lieutenant-General Manuel de Torres, a man with pale eyes and
Brutal tendencies. This force is fairly well disciplined with a good number of experienced personnel. The troops carry the
Following arms: M13A1 SMG, FN-FNC assault rifle, MAG GPMG, HP-35 Pistol. The Guardia Civiles generally wear olive drab uniforms with steel helmets, though the officers wear more well made BDUs or Class A uniforms when on headquarters duty.

Some post might be a little confusing, sorry about that.

[Marc]

I have not used this yet and as a result what I use for my own remain very similar to the general archive. Marc, I hope you'll find something interesting out of this.

Of course! This night at home I will give your information the careful look it deserves. I'm growing impatient. I'm sure your orbat will be an interesting matter to debate in one of my T2K groups. We tried to write an Spanish Orbat when you asked me for any suggestions about the matter in the French Orbat thread, but we lost our path enjoying from the conversation instead annotating anything.

[Mohoender]

Of course! This night at home I will give your information the careful look it deserves. I'm growing impatient. I'm sure your orbat will be an interesting matter to debate in one of my T2K groups. We tried to write an Spanish Orbat when you asked me for any suggestions about the matter in the French Orbat thread, but we lost our path enjoying from the conversation instead annotating anything.

The first one is what I came up for (first draft, it's often incomplete). However, the archives are not mine. As for all archives, it's a collection of what I gathered overtime. As I was not thinking about posting it back, I can't give it the proper credit. I'll be more than happy to see the true authors posting them or completing them.

[Marc]

Operation Carthaginian

Bona nit!

First of all, let me say that I like very much Operation Carthaginian (a very suitable name, by the way). The idea about a major airbone operation against Italy opens a new non-exploited scenario for me. And, as former Spanish paratrooper roughly by the time of the Twilight war, Operation Carthaginian gives me a lot of ideas based in my first hand experiences, in the case of a group of characters being members of the "Iberian Airborne Brigade Group".

The collaboration between Portuguese and Spanish paras seems to me perfectly plausible. Operation Carthaginian seems a good way to introduce Spain and Portugal as active NATO partners in the war. It seems credible to me that both countries probably would have rejected entering the war immediately after the opening of the hostilities between Germany and Poland, arguing that the Germans were acting on their own while attacking the polish and that they don't consider themselves tied by the NATO treaty in that case.

But with the unexpected Italian attack against the NATO fleet en route to Turkey, little can be discussed by Portugal and Spain without breaking the NATO treaty. And both countries (and especially Spain) would feel more comfortable fighting as the southern flank of the NATO than sending troops to Central Europe.

It would be interesting to think what would happen to the Spanish troops in Italy after the falling of the nukes in Spain and the low level civil war depicted in "Mediterranean Cruise" module that eventually allowed Catalonia to become independent.

[Marc]

About the fourth archive.

I'm curious to know about these Spanish units depicted as been in French soil. Any material about a NATO invasion of France The relationship between France and the NATO is a good point that I think is left somehow vague in the Twilight timeline.

[Marc]

About the Orbats

Mmmm... It's getting late. I will left the orbats for tomorrow. At first glance there are some mistakes. I'm doing a little research about the structure of that would have the Spanish Army in the Twilight War period but I'm only have fragmentary information. No problem to get this same information for the present day, but the Spanish Army have suffered a major transformation in its structure these past years.

[chico20854]

Fighting Flamingo from these parts is the author of the Carthaginian piece.

We in the DC Group are using the NATO 1989 orbat from tanknet.org (the latest version is at http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.p...c=20414&st=560 , second post has a link to the actual document) as the base for NATO forces in the Third World War wargaming we are working on to work out the conventional phase of the war. We are adjusting that orbat based on Cold War era plans for equipment modernization and, to a limited extent, changes in the force structure. It's a lot of work to unwind the post-Cold War changes that both the Pact and NATO forces went through in the 1990s.

I can't see NATO units on French soil, except as invading forces, after the French grab for the Rhineland. And given the disparity in strength, the plausibility of NATO forces invading French soil is nil.

For the recovery plan, we are operating on the basis that there is limited cooperation and trade between NATO and French forces in the Middle East and a low-level rivalry everywhere else. Neither side has the military strength or political will to push issues. From the American point of view, France is exploiting the world situation (and its prewar allies) for its own advantage, with its invasion of Germany and the Netherlands, support for Quebecois rebels and growing influence in the Middle East. From the French point of view, America is a broken land that is a dying power, no longer fit or deserving of a role on the world stage as important as it had before engaging in a reckless war.

And please, lets not turn this into a thread about RL Franco-American relations!

[Mohoender]

Thanks Chico I couldn't remember that and I had not writen down any names. I put his name next to the archive. This is T2K material and that's it. It was usefull to me and I hope that it could be usefull to others.

For my part I have mostly kept the OOBs, I hope that some of us might retain some of the texts and stories that were coming with them. Some were very nice.

[Badbru]

Joint Command Southwestern Europe (Subordinate to AFSOUTH)

The troops carry the
Following arms: M13A1 SMG, FN-FNC assault rifle, MAG GPMG, HP-35 Pistol.

Some post might be a little confusing, sorry about that.

Is that a misprint or an smg I'm not familiar with I'm guessing you mean the US manufactured World War Two era M3a1 Grease Gun smg but if there is such a thing as an M13A1 smg what is it and who makes it

[Mohoender]

Is that a misprint or an smg I'm not familiar with I'm guessing you mean the US manufactured World War Two era M3a1 Grease Gun smg but if there is such a thing as an M13A1 smg what is it and who makes it

I think it was a misprint and it is the M3A1 as you guessed. However, as it was an archive (and as I didn't care about the weapon they were carrying ), I never noticed. Nevertheless, as you asked, I checked and I have not found anything such as an M13A1 smg.