Storing Food in T2K

[swaghauler]

Long Term Canned Goods

One company who's website should be visited is CMG. They produce canned meats with a shelf life of TEN YEARS (this is the same as "old school" MREs boys and girls). I have 4 cases of Bacon stashed away as I type this. Each can has a pound of Bacon in it, and it tastes EXACTLY like Sugardale Bacon. That's right, this "survival ration" is actually EDIBLE. The 10 year shelf life blows away the 2 year shelf life of normal canned goods. CMG has several foods available too.

[WallShadow]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be

[Apache6]

MREs underwater for 2.5 years are proably edible

Large numbers of MREs are usually shipped in CONEX boxes (8x20x8), which are usually waterproof. The individual packaging is pretty tough and I believe would survive 2.5 years underwater. The worst threat to MREs being stored is extreme heat, the underwater situation would at least prevent that.

If I'd been living on rat and dandelion stew for 2 years, I think that 3 year old MREs fished out of a sunken ship would be a delight.

I think salvaging a sunken transport could provide all kinds of great treasures for a PC group. The container next to the MREs might contain ammo, radio batteries and all kinds of other stuff.

Or it could be container after container of extreme cold weather gear destined for the Marines in Norway, which is not too useful for the PC group operating their coast guard cutter as a salvage ship out of the Florida keys.

[swaghauler]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be

Even normal canned goods (like Campbell's soup) are proofed against salt water immersion IF the food container is uncompromised. The cans can rust after about a year submerged in water but still be edible. The expiration date is a good indicator of how long it will take for a container to fail due to moisture. MREs are proofed HIGHER than canned goods against "moisture corrosion" or spoilage IF the package isn't punctured. They could sit on the ocean floor for 5 years and NOT SPOIL.

[WallShadow]

"Gold &^%(#&~*@)!% the gold! There's _FOOD_ in them thar hulls!"

[swaghauler]

"Gold &^%(#&~*@)!% the gold! There's _FOOD_ in them thar hulls!"

This forum needs a damned LIKE button.

[rcaf_777]

Interesting Canned Food

Canned Cheeseburger
Canned Rattlesnake
Canned Chicken
Canned Brown Bread
Canned Fried Chicken
Canned Creamed Armadillo
Canned Creamed Possum
Canned Sushi
The Candwich (Sandwitch in a can)
Spam
Spam with Bacon
Spam Turkey
Ribs in a Can
Canned Fish Mouths
Canned Silkworm Pupae
Aerosol Cheese
Canned Autralian Processed Cheese
Canned Butter
Canned Ground Beef
Ova Easy Egg Crystals
Yoder's canned meats
Dry Whole Milk Powder
Canned Chicken Breast
Preserved Dutch Butter (Salted Butter)
Canned Pulled Pork

[WallShadow]

I did a little research, the channels dredged up to the MOTB (Military Ocean Terminal at Bayonne) docks are indeed 50 feet.
And, with a little help from NukeMap v.2, the docks are within a heat flash radius that would cause 3rd degree burns to unprotected skin.
AND just to the south-by-west (that is, to the windward) there is a tank farm that is currently labelled "PDQ Plastics, Inc." A fire here would cast huge clouds of toxic smoke across the area.
If the Linden 1.25 M is off a little to the eastward, the whole thing gets even more ugly for the Terminal.

[swaghauler]

Just thinking aloud--what would be the effect on MREs of being submerged in shallow water for 2.5 years
At the time of TDM and Northern Jersey's refineries being hit, Bayonne was a major military logistical port. I imagine that ships moored at those docks would suffer major damage and probably sink.
Just how watertight are the MRE outer coverings Could they withstand a depth of 30-50 feet within a cargo ship's hold IF so, they would be kept cool and at a fairly even temperature range. And air would be excluded.
Any input from the MRE gurus as to how practical/silly this might be

I would ask Medic to chime in here as well, but most containers (and people) are pretty resistant to pressure down to 4 atmospheres (about 40 meters or slightly more than 135 ft in depth). Depending on the contents of a can, it could be pressure resistant to VERY SIGNIFICANT depths. As I have stated above, 1 Atmosphere is equal to 10 meters/33.9 (34ft) feet in depth.

[Bullet Magnet]

As I have stated above, 1 Atmosphere is equal to 10 meters/33.9 (34ft) feet in depth.

Actually, 1.0 atmospheres is sea level. However, you are correct that for each (approximately) 10 meters under the surface of the water, you add another 1.0 atmospheres. So, at 10 meters below water, it would actually be 2.0 Atm.

[swaghauler]

Actually, 1.0 atmospheres is sea level. However, you are correct that for each (approximately) 10 meters under the surface of the water, you add another 1.0 atmospheres. So, at 10 meters below water, it would actually be 2.0 Atm.

Glad you caught that. I was a little rushed as I was waiting to unload. It should actually be 1 Atmosphere INCREASE per 10 meters of WATER DEPTH. This is important because the Specific Gravity of a fluid can change the pressure (in Atmospheres) at depth. For instance, if you were to dive down a 100-meter shaft filled with a liquid chemical denser than water, the pressure would be greater.

[swaghauler]

Solar Dehydrating

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.

The best "homemade" dehydrator I ever saw was comprised of:

1 solar blanket
1 bug net
2 saw horses
2 old aluminum framed screen doors

The screen doors were laid flat on the saw horses to form a rack on which the food was "sandwiched" in between them on wax paper with 1" gaps between the lines of wax paper (for air flow). The solar blanket was attached to the back of the doors (where the hinges had been) and laid to the ground under the feet of the saw horses to reflect the sunlight upwards from underneath the two doors. The bug netting was laid over top of the two doors to act as an extra layer of bug/bird protection. The solar blanket would ramp the temperature up on the screen doors to over 120F degrees. The aluminum would absorb and hold the heat. It would dehydrate tomatoes in a day. It was also used to dry seeds for the following year's garden.

Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.

Dehydrating Food In Twilight2000:

Dehydrating food is a skill Easy(2 X Skill): Survival and takes 24 to 48 hours depending on the food item being dehydrated. If stored properly in a dry place at 72F/22C, the food will remain fresh for 1D6+6 months.

Temperature and Food Storage:

Most food using pre-industrial storage/preservation methods will last the longest when stored in a dry place at 72F/22C. A change in temperature of just 20F/11C will double or halve the shelf life of the food in question. At 52F/11C, the food will last TWICE AS LONG. At 92F/33F, the shelf life of stored food will BE HALVED.

[WallShadow]

trash into (edible) treasure.

Solar dehydrating is the most economical method of preserving food for the long term. Only smoking meat requires fewer resources to preserve food.
<SNIP>
Cars would also make good dehydrators. Just put racks in the cabin, crack the windows and cover them with bug nets to protect the food. The interior of a car will easily exceed the 105F to 118F heat needed for dehydration.

I sometimes dried my sage, basil, and catnip by placing them in the car in paper bags on a hot day. The bags allowed airflow but kept the sun directly off the herbs.

Hmmmm...with a little fudging and jackleg mechanic work---cut several panels out of the car roofs and trunk lids, insert scavanged windshields, maybe install a remote watering supply system--IV tubes or aquarium tubing leading to individual pots or beds. You can make mobile greenhouses to extend your growing/seedling-planting season. Mobile in the sense that if you release the parking brake, the greenhouse can be steered out of shadow into afternoon light.

[.45cultist]

I got that idea from the thread on Cuisine. We are all concerned about what to eat but what about storing it. With electrical power gone, you can forget about fridge.

Here are some methods I can think of:

- Salting or smoking would be the first one but that is working only for fish and meat.

- For the fruits you can make Jam, plunge them in alcohol or dry them.

- You can use canned food but finding the right container might quickly be a problem.

- For some fruits such as apple, you can store them in specific type of buildings (that's fairly simple) under proper conditions (that's also true for potatoes).

- Another interesting thing (providing that the weather gets colder) would be to build an ice well. A well (15-20 meters deep) that you slowly fill with water during winter. Then, you'll have ice during the warm period.

Of course, you also have to protect your storage from all type of scavangers (small animals, insects, humans...)

Do you have any more ideas or do you know any other method

Initially those Ball jars and lids will probably be the only thing left on the looted or cleaned out store shelves., later, people might be pouring wax on top of food in a variety of bottles and jars, paraffin and the like will be worth their weight to stash away.

[Draq]

https://youtu.be/E7_f-jmmGdQ I'm reposted this from cuisine thread in case someone missed it. There's a tone of these, and he's just one of many ration/nre reviewers. The us Korean war b1&b2 unit episode is the best. Best example of food keeping, and going bad.