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  • Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
    That is certainly a consideration. It may well be that the troopers words lacked context, or they themselves simply didn't know the true state of the country - the SAS are based in the west and the other side of the country is several time zones away after all....
    Nevertheless, my intention is to do as much damage as I can conventionally before applying any nukes. Hopefully none will be needed to finish the job so it can remain consistent with "G'day", but use of a few warheads certainly won't break canon either. To my mind though, nuking Australia is the lazy way out. Conventional methods make more logical sense, and should make for a better background story.
    Without targeting Australia with nuclear armed missiles it would actually be fairly difficult to do much damage to Australia's infrastructure and military capabilities.

    Other than landing hit teams of Spetsnaz commandos or their Indonesian equivalents who realistically are not going to do to much before they are found and wiped out, it would be very hard to attack and do that much damage to Australia with bombers, conventional cruise missiles etc because of the geography of the country and its distance from potential enemies.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RN7 View Post
      Without targeting Australia with nuclear armed missiles it would actually be fairly difficult to do much damage to Australia's infrastructure and military capabilities.
      Not at all actually.
      I'll be putting roughly a brigade in Korea where they may just get nuked, and if not there's still a huge number of Soviet/North Korean units to contend with.
      Meanwhile, you've got the MASSIVE (by comparison) Indonesian army attacking into PNG with only Australian and perhaps New Zealand troops to stop them (the PNG military is a joke).
      Then add in a lack of fuel to transport or evacuate troops, plus the inability of the military to supply those troops and many may die simply because they can't find enough to eat and drink! Outback Australia is NOT a place you want to be stranded in.
      Originally posted by RN7 View Post
      Other than landing hit teams of Spetsnaz commandos or their Indonesian equivalents who realistically are not going to do to much before they are found and wiped out...
      Any attack on Australia itself will be simply a diversion and will tie up a huge amount of troops in attempting to secure vital facilities. Also, given the multicultural nature of the population, it's extremely easy for Indonesians, or any nationality for that matter, to simply get lost in the crowd. Most, if not all Indonesians sent to Australia will be in civilian clothing and unless actively engaged in a raid, will have hidden their weapons away. The occasional over reaction of security forces will also contribute to the overall destruction (targeting citizens simply due to ethnicity for example usually has serious unintended consequences).
      Active, uniformed Indonesian troops will be very few and far between on the Australian mainland precisely because they'd be easily targeted and quickly wiped out.
      If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

      Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

      Mors ante pudorem

      Comment


      • In general, Australia is heavily reliant on road transport. Rail and maritime transport are important but do not reach the number of places that road transport does and in many cases it's because it is not cost effective for anyone to do so.
        You don't have to damage the infrastructure to cause major disruptions, you only need to damage the transport industries and in particular, road transport.

        Disruption of truck fuel supplies means many hundreds of rural towns will be without basic commodities and within a short time, without enough food. The residents will probably move to the cities for aid for (what they think is) the short term which will just add more strain on the limited ability of transport industries to deliver needed items.
        People get hungry, they start to grumble, when their kids get hungry, people get angry. One more problem for the government to try and fix. Interuption of electricity or fuel for a long enough time in Australia, will have a domino effect in a short period of time and because the distances are so vast with such a relatively small population, transport of aid, police, security forces etc. etc. in a timely manner becomes almost impossible.

        I believe this is the path that Legbreaker is taking (correct me if I'm wrong Leg).

        Comment


        • Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
          I believe this is the path that Legbreaker is taking (correct me if I'm wrong Leg).
          That's pretty much it, yes.
          Without petroleum fuels, nothing, NOTHING moves in Australia. People WILL die. Riots, especially in the cities will break out within a week or two.
          Not only are the cities and towns reliant on road transport for most of their supplies, the areas those supplies are grown and produced can, and often are, hundreds, even thousands of kilometres away. Even those towns in more rural areas will have food supply problems as in many areas the farms are essentially a monoculture. They may have an absolute flood of wheat for example, but next to nothing else.
          If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

          Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

          Mors ante pudorem

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
            Without petroleum fuels, nothing, NOTHING moves in Australia. People WILL die. Riots, especially in the cities will break out within a week or two.Not only are the cities and towns reliant on road transport for most of their supplies, the areas those supplies are grown and produced can, and often are, hundreds, even thousands of kilometres away. Even those towns in more rural areas will have food supply problems as in many areas the farms are essentially a monoculture. They may have an absolute flood of wheat for example, but next to nothing else.
            I think this is generally true of most parts of the First World. I think a lot of modern folks who are privileged enough to live in the First World either don't realize this, or choose to pretend that modern life is not absolutely dependent on fossil fuels and electricity. IMHO, this a very Pollyanna-ish worldview. I am glad that you are not one of those folks.

            In the U.S., only 2% of the population is comprised of farm and ranch families. No fuel = no food, and 90+% of any First World nation's population is totally screwed. The destruction of much of the world's fuel and fuel production capabilities during the Twilight War would lead to a massive die off in Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
            Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

            https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
            https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
            https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
            https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
            https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
              Not at all actually.
              I'll be putting roughly a brigade in Korea where they may just get nuked, and if not there's still a huge number of Soviet/North Korean units to contend with.
              Meanwhile, you've got the MASSIVE (by comparison) Indonesian army attacking into PNG with only Australian and perhaps New Zealand troops to stop them (the PNG military is a joke).
              Does the US not use nuclear weapons on the massive numbers of Soviet and North Koreans in Korea too And is Australia nuked or just left intact

              Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
              Then add in a lack of fuel to transport or evacuate troops, plus the inability of the military to supply those troops and many may die simply because they can't find enough to eat and drink! Outback Australia is NOT a place you want to be stranded in.
              Would the Australian government not introduce emergency measures in wartime after at least a year of global warfare, and would Indonesia be immune to fuel and transport shortages

              Is it Australian or Indonesian troops you are you are talking about in the outback

              Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
              Any attack on Australia itself will be simply a diversion and will tie up a huge amount of troops in attempting to secure vital facilities.)
              Attack by who Indonesia or the Soviet Union

              What vital facilities Oil refineries, pipelines, airports, power stations, arms factories You don't need tens of thousands of troops to secure these facilities.

              Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
              Also, given the multicultural nature of the population, it's extremely easy for Indonesians, or any nationality for that matter, to simply get lost in the crowd. Most, if not all Indonesians sent to Australia will be in civilian clothing and unless actively engaged in a raid, will have hidden their weapons away. The occasional over reaction of security forces will also contribute to the overall destruction (targeting citizens simply due to ethnicity for example usually has serious unintended consequences).
              Active, uniformed Indonesian troops will be very few and far between on the Australian mainland precisely because they'd be easily targeted and quickly wiped out.
              You know Legreaker Australia is hard place to get to by sea, and what about the RAN and possibly other allied ships patrolling the region. I think you are doing your country a disservice by suggesting that the Australian intelligence and policing services and military would not be aware of large numbers of Indonesian entering Australia and not being able to deal with Indonesian fifth columnists running about causing mayhem and then just melting into the general population.

              Are Asian-Australians not patriotic to Australia or are they just there to get revenge on Whitey when the times comes And the government would not mention Indonesian terrorists in news broadcasts and media because of PC policies and other non-Indonesia Australians would not be suspicious if not downright hostile to them

              Also although Australia's big cities are multi-cultured most vital facilities are not located downtown. They are on the outskirts of them or in remoter areas. Australian cities like American cities gets less multi-cultured the further you travel from the downtown core. In the suburbs, smaller towns and rural areas a bunch of creepy Indonesians acting suspiciously are going to stand out like a sore thumb. Also would Australian soldiers not be aware of the security threat or have their hands tied by PC BS when they are aware of an imminent threat from a potentially hostile group in the area.

              Also if Australia is not nuked than you have a functional RAAF well armed by the Americans and you also have functional Australian oil infrastructure to fuel it. The RAAF can strike any part of Indonesia and could and destroy or severely disable most of Indonesia's oil refining and electricity production capacity in 24 to 48 hours.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Does the US not use nuclear weapons on the massive numbers of Soviet and North Koreans in Korea too And is Australia nuked or just left intact
                Perhaps they do, perhaps they don't. Korea's more Raellus' thing.
                I'm still only in the early stages of this project though really and haven't done much in that area beyond assigning perhaps a brigade or so of Australians plus New Zealanders and maybe other nationalities - this was discussed earlier in this thread.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Would the Australian government not introduce emergency measures in wartime after at least a year of global warfare, and would Indonesia be immune to fuel and transport shortages
                Of course the government would, but by late 1997 they'll be essentially powerless to do anything all that meaningful over a wide area.
                As for Indonesia don't worry, I'll be screwing them up nicely as well. After all, I need to create a reason for them to attack into PNG...
                Indonesia actually has a small advantage over Australia - they're somewhat less dependent on food distribution and technology. Most islands are almost self sufficient as it is, so a lack of fuel for transport should hurt them too much. That said, they're also on the verge of overpopulation so any event that upsets the status quo is going to hurt them quite badly if they can't get outside help. At this point (and there's plenty more thought to be put into it) I'm thinking radiation from Pakistan/India coupled with volcanic activity, disease, storms, and so forth will decimate at least the western parts of the country forcing the government to look eastward.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Is it Australian or Indonesian troops you are you are talking about in the outback
                A bit of both really. Indonesian presence will be fairly light though and be more a diversion to keep Australian units occupied and away from PNG.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Attack by who Indonesia or the Soviet Union
                Besides the possibility the USSR sent some advisers to Indonesia, I can't imagine why they'd pay much attention to the region. MIGHT find a handful of individuals on the Australian mainland, but they're also more likely to stand out in a crowd than Indonesians.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                What vital facilities Oil refineries, pipelines, airports, power stations, arms factories You don't need tens of thousands of troops to secure these facilities.
                No, you don't, not if you know where the enemy are and where they intend to attack next.
                Also bear in mind the enemy actions will be designed to create the greatest amount of chaos possible. Not all the troops will be needed to guard facilities, many will be assigned to keep the hordes of civilians in check when the food runs out, etc.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                You know Legbreaker Australia is hard place to get to by sea, and what about the RAN and possibly other allied ships patrolling the region. I think you are doing your country a disservice by suggesting that the Australian intelligence and policing services and military would not be aware of large numbers of Indonesian entering Australia and not being able to deal with Indonesian fifth columnists running about causing mayhem and then just melting into the general population.
                The ocean is a BIG place and we've only got a limited number of ships and planes. With troops in Korea, some of those will likely be assigned there as well.
                I'm not talking about large numbers either. It really doesn't take that many people with explosives to damage, even destroy something like a refinery. As I think I mentioned previously, all it may take is one person pressing the wrong button at the right time to cause damage. Of course they're probably only going to be able to do it once, maybe twice before others figure out there's sabotage being carried out by one of the workers....
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Are Asian-Australians not patriotic to Australia or are they just there to get revenge on Whitey when the times comes And the government would not mention Indonesian terrorists in news broadcasts and media because of PC policies and other non-Indonesia Australians would not be suspicious if not downright hostile to them
                Some are, some aren't. The actual saboteurs and raiders I envisage being Indonesian soldiers who've infiltrated the country in the months before hostilities kick off. As there's quite a significant percentage of people who've immigrated from south east asia over the last few decades, it will be fairly simple for them to blend in provided they're not walking around with rifles over their shoulders....
                There may also be some who've been in the country all their lives who for one reason or another join with the Indonesians, but I really can't see them as being a sizeable number and probably best handled by GM's who want to include a traitor or two in their game.
                Censorship will certainly be in effect, but I don't think it's going to matter that much. I don't intend to have the hostilities kick off until late 97, perhaps early 98. By that time I can't imagine much electronic media will be left undamaged due to EMP and ASAT attacks.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Also although Australia's big cities are multi-cultured most vital facilities are not located downtown. They are on the outskirts of them or in remoter areas. Australian cities like American cities gets less multi-cultured the further you travel from the downtown core. In the suburbs, smaller towns and rural areas a bunch of creepy Indonesians acting suspiciously are going to stand out like a sore thumb. Also would Australian soldiers not be aware of the security threat or have their hands tied by PC BS when they are aware of an imminent threat from a potentially hostile group in the area.
                I've spent a number of years living and working in several Australian cities and am intimately familiar with Sydney's industry and demographics in particular. There are areas you don't go into if you're white, even in the outskirts. Even in the more European areas it's still not uncommon to see Asians, Africans, and just about every other ethnicity as well. The presence of a non-white face isn't out of place at all until you head out of the cities completely.
                I intend to open the war with a brigade already committed in Korea, and an Indonesian build up in West Papua to cause most of the remaining regular troops to be deployed there. The actual shooting would commence with a bunch of near simultaneous attacks on refineries, power generation, communications and whatever else seems to make sense. Initial response will be police only - the military won't be called upon for days or even weeks.
                Even when the military is called upon, with a brigade in Korea, and about the same in PNG, there's not much left at home. Reserve units generally run at around 10-25% strength - an infantry "battalion" might be able to scrape together a company plus support elements, but they're also spread over hundreds of kilometres. It will take time for more recruits to be enlisted, trained and equipped, and all while the attacks continue, and the governments trying to support forces in Korea and PNG.
                Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                Also if Australia is not nuked than you have a functional RAAF well armed by the Americans and you also have functional Australian oil infrastructure to fuel it. The RAAF can strike any part of Indonesia and could and destroy or severely disable most of Indonesia's oil refining and electricity production capacity in 24 to 48 hours.
                No.
                RAAF by that point will be quite damaged from action in Korea and oil supplies from overseas will have ceased. Yes, there will be attacks made on Indonesian facilities, but the RAAF's strength by that point won't be enough to stop them cold.
                Both sides need to still have some capacity for offensive action to fit with canon. Eventually though, perhaps in just 6 months or so, everything will grind to a halt from logistical reasons (just like is said in canon). Troops on both sides will suffer badly when they can't be supplied and potentially more deaths will result from starvation and disease than actual combat!

                Anyway, it's still early days with this project and everything's still subject to change. I'm sure during the process I'll find things that make no sense anymore and add, remove, and adjust things.
                I can promise I won't publish until I'm 100% CERTAIN it all makes sense and I'm convinced I've done as much background work as I possibly can to make it as believable as it possibly can be.
                If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                Mors ante pudorem

                Comment


                • The Use of Nuclear Weapons on the Korean Peninsula

                  Originally posted by RN7 View Post
                  Does the US not use nuclear weapons on the massive numbers of Soviet and North Koreans in Korea too And is Australia nuked or just left intact
                  The whole thing only costs $2.99, but I'll give you the answer from my Korean Peninsula Sourcebook for free.

                  "As Soviet and Allied units clashed in North Korea, the Stavka, responding to the perceived existential threat posed by NATO forces crossing the Soviet frontier in the west, roused the dozing genie of nuclear warfare, unleashing it once again on mankind, first, haltingly in Europe, then, on a massive scale in East Asia. Of all belligerents, China was hit hardest; much of the PLA was vaporized in the first week of the atomic barrage. Under heavy nuclear and conventional attacks, the Northern Chinese Front disintegrated. The headquarters of the Chinese 28th Army was obliterated by a tactical nuclear strike, and the remains of U.S. 2nd ID found themselves on their own, cut off from the rest of 8th Army.

                  "On 10/21, 'Tropic Lightning' was hit by no less than six tactical nuclear weapons; it was subsequently overrun and annihilated by Soviet mechanized forces- only 1,000 survivors from the 25th ID made it back to Allied lines."

                  [The above two paragraphs are based on specific v1.0 canonical references. The next two were approved by Marc Miller.]

                  "Through September and October, U.S. 8th Army countered Soviet tactical nuclear strikes with several of its own, buying some breathing room and inflicting heavy casualties- the Soviet 12th MRD, caught in a bottleneck at a river crossing, was annihilated by a well-placed Lance battlefield nuclear missile.

                  "In an attempt to end the campaign in one fell swoop, or at least prevent a timely Allied counteroffensive, Stavka authorized the destruction of several strategic targets in the Republic of Korea: Seoul, the capital city, Incheon, a major port close to the Allied main line of resistance, and Kunsan, another west coast port and home to a major USAF airbase (and the only nuclear weapons storage site in the ROK), were all slated for destruction. On November 4th, a single SS-17 Spanker ICBM launched from southern Siberia released four MIRVs high over the Korean Peninsula. 500 kiloton warheads detonated over Seoul, Incheon and Kunsan, wreaking havoc and killing, in total, hundreds of thousands of civilians. Fortunately, the fourth warhead (also targeting Seoul) failed to detonate.

                  "To impede the arrival of additional reinforcements from the U.S.A. by way of Japan, the east coast ROK port cities of Busan and Ulsan were also targeted for destruction. In the early dawn hours of November 8th, the Echo II class SSGN, K34, surfaced in the Sea of Japan and launched two nuclear-tipped P-1000 Vulkan cruise missiles, one each at Busan and Ulsan. Several minutes later, the 350 kiloton warhead aboard the first P-1000 detonated over Busan, wrecking the port and badly damaging the eastern half of the city. The missile targeting Ulsan suffered a critical engine failure soon after launch and crashed into the sea well short of the Korean coast (the warhead did not explode). A JDF P-3 Orion, on routine ASW patrol over the Sea of Japan, spotted the smoky missile launch signatures on the western horizon and closed at speed to investigate. K34 had difficulty retracting one of its missile launch tubes, delaying its escape. It was attempting to submerge just as the JDF P-3 arrived overhead. The P-3 dropped two Mk. 46 homing torpedoes, both of which tracked and hit the crash-diving K34, sinking it along with all hands.

                  "The United States responded to the strategic nuclear attacks on South Korea by obliterating the Soviet Union's Pacific port of Vladivostok with a Trident SLBM. As the year wore on, use of nuclear weapons by both superpowers expanded. U.S. military bases in Japan and the Philippines were destroyed; U.S.8th Army was becoming increasingly isolated."

                  Bergesen, Alf R.
                  The Korean Peninsula: A Twilight 2000 Series Sourcebook
                  2nd Edition
                  Far Future Enterprises, 2018
                  Watermarked PDF

                  Last edited by Raellus; 12-01-2018, 09:41 AM.
                  Author of Twilight 2000 adventure modules, Rook's Gambit and The Poisoned Chalice, the campaign sourcebook, Korean Peninsula, the gear-book, Baltic Boats, and the co-author of Tara Romaneasca, a campaign sourcebook for Romania, all available for purchase on DriveThruRPG:

                  https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...--Rooks-Gambit
                  https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ula-Sourcebook
                  https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...nia-Sourcebook
                  https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...liate_id=61048
                  https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/...-waters-module

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Raellus View Post
                    The whole thing only costs $2.99, but I'll give you the answer from my Korean Peninsula Sourcebook for free.

                    "As Soviet and Allied units clashed in North Korea, the Stavka, responding to the perceived existential threat posed by NATO forces crossing the Soviet frontier in the west, roused the dozing genie of nuclear warfare, unleashing it once again on mankind, first, haltingly in Europe, then, on a massive scale in East Asia. Of all belligerents, China was hit hardest; much of the PLA was vaporized in the first week of the atomic barrage. Under heavy nuclear and conventional attacks, the Northern Chinese Front disintegrated. The headquarters of the Chinese 28th Army was obliterated by a tactical nuclear strike, and the remains of U.S. 2nd ID found themselves on their own, cut off from the rest of 8th Army.

                    "On 10/21, 'Tropic Lightning' was hit by no less than six tactical nuclear weapons; it was subsequently overrun and annihilated by Soviet mechanized forces- only 1,000 survivors from the 25th ID made it back to Allied lines."

                    [The above two paragraphs are based on specific v1.0 canonical references. The next two were approved by Marc Miller.]

                    "Through September and October, U.S. 8th Army countered Soviet tactical nuclear strikes with several of its own, buying some breathing room and inflicting heavy casualties- the Soviet 12th MRD, caught in a bottleneck at a river crossing, was annihilated by a well-placed Lance battlefield nuclear missile.

                    "In an attempt to end the campaign in one fell swoop, or at least prevent a timely Allied counteroffensive, Stavka authorized the destruction of several strategic targets in the Republic of Korea: Seoul, the capital city, Incheon, a major port close to the Allied main line of resistance, and Kunsan, another west coast port and home to a major USAF airbase (and the only nuclear weapons storage site in the ROK), were all slated for destruction. On November 4th, a single SS-17 Spanker ICBM launched from southern Siberia released four MIRVs high over the Korean Peninsula. 500 kiloton warheads detonated over Seoul, Incheon and Kunsan, wreaking havoc and killing, in total, hundreds of thousands of civilians. Fortunately, the fourth warhead (also targeting Seoul) failed to detonate.

                    "To impede the arrival of additional reinforcements from the U.S.A. by way of Japan, the east coast ROK port cities of Busan and Ulsan were also targeted for destruction. In the early dawn hours of November 8th, the Echo II class SSGN, K34, surfaced in the Sea of Japan and launched two nuclear-tipped P-1000 Vulkan cruise missiles, one each at Busan and Ulsan. Several minutes later, the 350 kiloton warhead aboard the first P-1000 detonated over Busan, wrecking the port and badly damaging the eastern half of the city. The missile targeting Ulsan suffered a critical engine failure soon after launch and crashed into the sea well short of the Korean coast (the warhead did not explode). A JDF P-3 Orion, on routine ASW patrol over the Sea of Japan, spotted the smoky missile launch signatures on the western horizon and closed at speed to investigate. K34 had difficulty retracting one of its missile launch tubes, delaying its escape. It was attempting to submerge just as the JDF P-3 arrived overhead. The P-3 dropped two Mk. 46 homing torpedoes, both of which tracked and hit the crash-diving K34, sinking it along with all hands.

                    "The United States responded to the strategic nuclear attacks on South Korea by obliterating the Soviet Union's Pacific port of Vladivostok with a Trident SLBM. As the year wore on, use of nuclear weapons by both superpowers expanded. U.S. military bases in Japan and the Philippines were destroyed; U.S.8th Army was becoming increasingly isolated."

                    Bergesen, Alf R.
                    The Korean Peninsula: A Twilight 2000 Series Sourcebook
                    2nd Edition
                    Far Future Enterprises, 2018
                    Watermarked PDF

                    https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ebooksrc=fp_u5

                    Yes Raellus I bought your sourcebook last year. A good read!!

                    And thanks for confirming that the US retaliated with nuclear weapons in kind against the Soviets in Korea and the Soviet Far East.

                    Comment


                    • How can I NOT include this
                      Halfway through the book now, and I want to shoot them!
                      Nothing short of treason.
                      If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                      Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                      Mors ante pudorem

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                        How can I NOT include this
                        Halfway through the book now, and I want to shoot them!
                        Nothing short of treason.
                        https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/201...DK7Zv9Fe9TpTeY
                        The scum & vermin who worked the docks pulled the same shit during the Vietnam War. My father (who served there) told me how some Australian units had to locate tools, jerrycans, jacks, towing cables and so on (even bulbs from headlights sometimes) in country at times, because the dock worker scum in Australia had stolen all those items before loading the vehicles onto the ships for transport to Vietnam.
                        Now, with the unpopularity of the Vietnam War, you could, I suppose, argue that it was a political protest rather than the blatant theft and corruption that it really was.
                        However, during WW2 when the country itself lived in fear of a Japanese invasion When there's recorded incidents where their theft caused the death of Allied personal
                        That was nothing less than undermining the Allied war effort. Those bastards should have been arrested and tried for treason. Personally, I believe they should have been conscripted because as much as I would have liked to shoot them, it's too damned quick and they didn't deserve a quick, clean end.

                        Although they're supposed to be under more scrutiny now, the scum still pull the same shit even today albeit at a lesser level. One of my co-workers said some family members moved to Broome for work and had their car transported by ship. When it arrived, the windscreen wipers, the petrol cap and some other items were missing - they weren't missing when they delivered the car to the wharf for loading. This happened some time in the mid-2000s.

                        Now in terms of what you're proposing Leg, it's an interesting twist and an effective way to tighten the screws on Australia. Particularly as it could very well lead to street fights between wharfie scum and people with relatives serving in the military. With the history of wharfies using violence, intimidation and other criminal means (I'm looking directly at you Painters & Dockers Union) I could easily see it becoming a serious police problem that could even possibly escalate to armed clashes.

                        Can you tell I have no love for Australian dock workers

                        Comment


                        • What a fun document to fill in......
                          Last edited by Legbreaker; 04-29-2021, 04:56 AM.
                          If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                          Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                          Mors ante pudorem

                          Comment


                          • One positive about WWIII breaking out in late 1996 - no gun buy back scheme for Australia in 1997!
                            Semi-automatics, etc will still be quite widespread throughout the country unlike the real world situation where even gel blasters and (in some cases) paint ball guns are illegal.
                            If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                            Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                            Mors ante pudorem

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                              One positive about WWIII breaking out in late 1996 - no gun buy back scheme for Australia in 1997!
                              Semi-automatics, etc will still be quite widespread throughout the country unlike the real world situation where even gel blasters and (in some cases) paint ball guns are illegal.
                              Just a few notes about that. In Western Australia, semi-autos were restricted from the early 1990s. Specifically any semi-autos that fired centrefire ammo were no longer allowed for civilian possession. From memory we're talking before 1994 (it was during the time Carmen Lawrence was Premier of WA).
                              Farmers, roo shooters etc. etc. could argue for the need for such semi-autos but they would've been a tiny portion of the West Aussie firearms community.
                              Any military styled firearms (such as the .22LR M16 lookalikes, AR-15s, HK94s and so on) were not available for civvy ownership for decades before. I don't know specifically when that came about but I knew about it in the mid-1980s but WA had essentially banned them from civvy ownership for some time before the gun buyback.

                              Paintball guns were illegal in Western Australia until sometime in the mid-to-late 1990s. Some politicians were convinced they could be converted into "real" guns while other politicians claimed that letting people use paintball guns would teach them how to use "real" guns. It took years of public lobbying before they were finally accepted for club sports and then finally private ownership (which requires a firearms licence, it's a Category E "firearm")

                              But anyway... while the WA rulings against semi-auto centrefires came into place in the early 1990s, I think you could argue that the circumstances leading up to it might have been overshadowed by the world stumbling along the path that would lead to WWIII. However there were far fewer of them in WA compared to what could be found in the Eastern States.

                              However...
                              That didn't mean there weren't any "interesting" firearms to be found in WA.
                              The WA police confiscated a fully working .303 Bren Gun from a farmer some time in the 1970s or earlier. It was inherited from a relative who had apparently acquired it during WW2.
                              I saw a Pakistani made G3 that was owned by some dodgy associate of a friend. Another friend who was in the ARes told me about his unit digging up a crate of AKMs when on exercise in the top end of WA during the 1980s.
                              A former manager of mine who had been ARes told me of going shooting on a farm owned by the QM of his unit. This QM had a thing for the .50 and had apparently assembled a complete weapon from parts he'd pilfered over the years and enjoyed shooting it on his property.
                              One of my former associates used to go hunting with an M1 Carbine during the 1990s.

                              So yeah, there's a few things to consider or disregard as you need.

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                              • The other thing about WA is that it's big. REALLY BIG!
                                Unless actually in a city or larger town, there's a very good chance you could get away with owning and using prohibited firearms if you were relatively careful about it.
                                If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                                Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                                Mors ante pudorem

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