The ANZACs in T2k

[dude_uk]

RN7 popped up the figures for 1996/1997. For the sake of completion I'll put up those for 1989. Give a rough idea of the Cold war mindset.

Australia

Total Armed forces
Active: 69600

Reserve: 27580 (Increasing)
Army: 25000
Navy: 12220
Air: 1360

Army (31300)

7 Military Districts

Command Troops
1 Air Defence Regiment
1 Engineer Regiment (Construction)
1 Aviation Regiment
1 SAS Regiment (3 Sqns)

1 Inf Division
1 Mech Brigade
(1 Armd, 1 Mech, 1 Para)
2 Inf Brigade ( 2 Inf Bn)
1 Recce Regiment
1 APC Regiment
4 Arty Regiment
(1 Med, 3 Fd (1 Reserve)
1 Engr Reg
1 AVN 93 Hel, 1 ac sqn)
(2 avn as hel transferring from Air force)

Army Reserves
2 Div HQ
7 Brg HQ
3 Recce reg
3 APC Sqn
17 Inf Bn
1 Cdo
6 Arty Reg (1 Med, 5 Fd)
3 Field Artillery Battery
4 Engineer Regiment ( 2 Field, 2 construction)
3 Regional Surveillance units

Army Equipment
MBT: 103 Lepard 1A3 (42 Centurion in store)
AIFV: 40 M113 with 76mm
APC: 725 M113
Towed Artillery: 105mm 142 M2A2/L5
18 Hamel 15500
35 M-198
Mortars: 81mm:284
ATGW: 10 Milan
RCL:
84MM: 574 Carl Gustav
106mm 73 M-40
SAM: 19 Rapier
19 RBS-70
Aircraft:
14 PC-6 Turbo-Porter
22 GAP N-22B Missionmaster
Helicoper:
14 S-70 (Army/Air force Crew)
47 OH-58 Kiowa
47 206B
Marine:
16 LCM
85 LARC-5 AMPH Craft


Before you go handing out the in storage Lee-Enfields. Bear in mind that Australia obtained for the license to manufacture the Streyer AUG. So if production was ramped up, you should be able to equip any new forces before the nuclear strikes.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Just some small things with the list you posted, the 47 OH-58 Kiowas and 47 Bell 206B are referencing the same helo. They were the 206B civilian models modified for military use and retained the civilian designation.
We never had the OH-58 version.

And yes, we definitely had the licence for the AUG in the 1980s, late 80s but still the 80s. If I can actually remember back that far, I think the first versions were being mass issued in early1989, they were definitely on show in 1988 as I saw a few of them when I participated in Army Tattoo 88 in Western Australia.
My last unit got them in 1991 I think, might have been 1992 but I was carrying one for a couple of years.

I was in an Army Reserve infantry unit so we were further down the food chain when it came to distribution of the new rifles but even still, they rifle was accepted for service in 1988 and most infantry units had been fully converted to the F88 Austeyr by 1992. Less than five years so that gives some idea of how quickly we could have got serious production going (however keep in mind we're not talking hundreds of thousands of rifles, I think we requested about 90,000 in total).

[Legbreaker]

I was in an Army Reserve infantry unit so we were further down the food chain when it came to distribution of the new rifles but even still, they rifle was accepted for service in 1988 and most infantry units had been fully converted to the F88 Austeyr by 1992. Less than five years so that gives some idea of how quickly we could have got serious production going (however keep in mind we're not talking hundreds of thousands of rifles, I think we requested about 90,000 in total).

41 RNSWR didn't get them until 93 - late 93 at that.
Did get the M16s and M203s 1RAR handed in though around 92.

[Targan]

16 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy - Irwin Barracks, Karrakatta, Perth
A Coy - Geraldton
C Coy - Kalgoorlie, (my last unit) was in transition from understrength Company to overstrength Reconnaissance Platoon. This would have been complete by the mid-90s
Support Coy included 81mm mortars and 7.62mm SFMG

11/28 Battalion, RWAR, Infantry
Now if memory serves me correctly, Targan was 11/28 so he would be the one to ask because I"m working from second-hand info.
HQ, Support/admin/etc. & B Coy (I'm uncertain of this) - Irwin Barracks, Karakatta, Perth
A Coy: -
1st Platoon - Bunbury
2nd Platoon - Albany
3rd Platoon - Katanning
I think HQ A Coy was in Bunbury but again, I am not certain
C Coy: -
I don't know but a platoon sized unit was based in Rockingham and I think this might have been the core of C Coy.
D Coy: - Irwin Barracks
I am not certain of the setup with 11/28 because at that time, some Reserve Infantry units were being strengthened with one Regular Army company

10 Light Horse, Armoured Recce
HQ, support/etc. and A Squadron - Irwin Barracks
A Vehicles included: - M113 LRV, M548 TLC, M113 Fitter's Vehicle, M577 ACV (no 76mm MRV from what I recall)

Other Reserve units in Perth at that time included, (note that I have no idea of strength, organization etc. etc.)
7 Field Battery, Medium Arty, at Irwin Barracks (I think they've been neutered and carry 81mm now)
Field Ambulance (don't recall designation), was formerly at the Artillery Barracks in Fremantle but then moved to Irwin Barracks sometime in late-80s or early-90s.

This all looks correct to me as far as I remember. I'm pretty sure 11/28 Battalion didn't have a regular company attached in the early to mid-90s. We didn't even get Steyrs until '93 IIRC.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

This all looks correct to me as far as I remember. I'm pretty sure 11/28 Battalion didn't have a regular company attached in the early to mid-90s. We didn't even get Steyrs until '93 IIRC.

Yeah, checking with a friend who joined 16 sometime in the early 90s, I am out of synch by quite a few years. From his recollection the plan to integrate ARes and Reg formations started sometime in the mid 90s so it would have taken a good few years before it was in place, like probably the late 90s or early 2000s.
That's the problem with relying on memory!

[Legbreaker]

I don't suppose we have any oil refining engineers in the forum membership do we

[StainlessSteelCynic]

No I'm not but, what info are you after

[Legbreaker]

The ability for Australian and New Zealand refineries to switch to light sweet oil (as produced in WA and currently shipped to Asian markets) rather than the heavier crude imports they've been using for the previous 50+ years. What sort of efficiency loss would there be, production delays during changeover, etc.
My own research seems to indicate there's only one refinery in the country in the 1990s that had the ability to quickly switch from one feed stock type to another (up to three times in a day apparently). The others don't seem to have that ability built in.
Knowing what problems and delays there may be is critical to deciding on what's going on throughout the country and may perhaps explain why Australia apparently avoided being nuked.

On another vaguely related topic, I just found this website a moment ago. http://australiansteam.com
Quote "This site provides an up-to-date listing of all surviving Australian steam locomotives, including their location and status. More than 600 locomotives are detailed, indexed by their state of origin and first user."
Going to be loads of fun trawling through there and figuring out which ones may be pressed back into service when diesel runs short.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Okay so just to get this straight in my own head, do you mean processing already refined sweet light oil or being able to process sour/heavy crude into sweet light
In "theory", any refinery that is processing sour and/or heavy oils could convert some of that output to sweet light oils but it requires some expansive and obviously expensive infrastructure.
There's a brief explanation of the processes involved on the following page: -

https://www.afpm.org/The-Refinery-Process/#process

How many refineries in Australia have these facilities Not many but I'm not certain for sure as I only know of two that would have been operating in the 1980s-90s period (the Shell refinery at Clyde NSW and the BP refinery in Kwinana WA). It's not like we have dozens of crude refineries though and they tend to be found in/near major cities.
I don't know if you are aware of the following site but it could be useful for you (and anyone looking to see where oil facilities are)

https://www.refinerymaps.com/

[Legbreaker]

Okay so just to get this straight in my own head, do you mean processing already refined sweet light oil or being able to process sour/heavy crude into sweet light

Crude that's been refined, is not longer refereed to as sweet, light, etc. It's referred to as the components it's been split into (kerosene, diesel, etc).
I need to know what efficiency loss there would be in using sweet crude as the feedstock for a refinery designed for heavy, thicker crude. What problems may arise which could potentially damage the equipment and restrict output.
Given we're told elsewhere that Australia wasn't nuked, I need to find a logical way of creating a serious fuel shortage for Australia and New Zealand. Part of the answer will be sabotage, but that can't account for all of it. A lot I'll need to attribute to engineering, supply and transportation limitations.

[Legbreaker]

Why does Indonesia invade PNG

I've spent the last hour or so looking at maps of the border region and noted there's really only two border crossing points - the main point on the north coast on the Vanimo - Jayapura highway at Wutung, and another VERY secondary point about 75km north of the southern coastline and the small town of Botar.
As can be seen in the two photos, the southern route is FAR from suitable as an invasion route, and the northern one, well...it's got more than it's fair share of problems too. Clearly water-borne transport is going to be the preferred method of supplying troops where possible, but that's very vulnerable to sea and air attack.
The border itself is extremely porous, but that's largely offset by the total lack of other roads beyond these two. Some river traffic is possible, BUT the majority of the rivers in the region flow more north-south rather than the needed east-west - their usefulness is most likely restricted to local transportation of patrols and smaller units/supplies, and totally unsuited to carrying the logistical needs of the invasion forces (or the defenders for that matter too).
So, given the terrain is so damn hostile to a large, land based force, what causes Indonesia to risk absolutely everything on what appears to be a "bridge too far" scenario
So far my thoughts are NBC attacks on more western areas of the country forcing them to find uncontaminated areas to move into, the discovery of badly needed minerals in the border regions, and perhaps even political stupidity.

Northern route


Southern route
Yes, it really is THAT bad!

[StainlessSteelCynic]

As we know, aside from nationalistic ambition where they had once decided that all of Borneo and PNG should be Indonesian you don't just launch an invasion without some sort of payoff.
There's plenty of mineral wealth in PNG and that would be an obvious temptation for Indonesia but the root cause still remains to be answered - what causes them to "need" whatever it is that can be found in PNG

Is the need more ephemeral, a quick distraction for whatever problems they're having at home (and it provides an easy reason to conscript the "trouble-makers" and have them shipped off to the war)
Is it something less materialistic, the need for more land for their own overpopulated islands for example

Could it be the spectre of starvation They can barely produce enough food for themselves (except for rice and even then, they were still importing rice until 2012 - they needed to grow at least 76 million tons of unhusked rice to enable them to cut back on rice imports). In 2012 they still needed to import 1.6 million tons of soyabeans, 2.3 million tons of sugar and 200,000 tons of beef.

Problems for agriculture include unpredictable weather (in particularl, heavy rains) and conversion of large amounts of land from ag use to industrial use.
All this has been going on for decades and includes millions of tonnes of material wastage due to corruption, inefficiency and neglect. Combine that with the rapid halt of much needed imports, it could be enough for a desperate government to try and grab some primary industry from PNG or to even try "pulling a Falklands" trick to distract the population from bigger problems.

Indonesia has relied heavily on imports from various Asian, North American and European countries, China being a big supplier. With what's happening between the Soviet Union and China, imports are going to dry up pretty damned quick.
Although this page is relevant for the current period, I think we could assume that Indonesia was building to this level of demand for a few decades before the late 2000s. It gives a good look at just what the Indos were wanting from other nations.

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top_indonesia_imports.html

As for the crude oil bit, yeah, just shows how little I know about it haha

[Legbreaker]

Yeah, all that's basically the way I'm thinking too, but given the poor nature of the only two roads, and the ease in which those roads, plus the sea routes could be interdicted (as little as a couple of men with a machinegun could cause everything to grind to a sudden halt, particularly along that southern land route) there's got to be a REALLY SOLID reason for them to risk it.
Part of it could be Australia's involvement in Korea giving them the impression they'd really only have the PNG defence forces to deal with - roughly a total strength of just 2,500 people spread across all areas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_..._Defence_Force
Some Indonesian units will undoubtedly be sent to Australia's mainland for low level insurgency and sabotage (prime targets including oil refineries) which based on Australian military exercises in the 80's and 90's could tie up in excess of a brigade just in hunting them down (perhaps three times that many, or even more, providing security at expected targets).
That may just give the Indonesian offensive some small chance of success, or at least enough that they think it's worth trying...

As for the crude oil bit, yeah, just shows how little I know about it haha

Don't worry, a week ago I didn't know all that much either! This has been a VERY steep learning curve!

[Targan]

How many refineries in Australia have these facilities Not many but I'm not certain for sure as I only know of two that would have been operating in the 1980s-90s period (the Shell refinery at Clyde NSW and the BP refinery in Kwinana WA).

And with Garden Island (home of the biggest naval base on the western side of the continent, and a submarine base) in line of sight across the water from the Kwinana refinery, that whole area is a great big juicy target. If it wasn't nuked in the Twilight War someone would have tried to wreck it some other way.

[Legbreaker]

And with Garden Island (home of the biggest naval base on the western side of the continent, and a submarine base) in line of sight across the water from the Kwinana refinery, that whole area is a great big juicy target. If it wasn't nuked in the Twilight War someone would have tried to wreck it some other way.

That one throwaway line in "What's Polish for G'day" is really screwing things up for me at the moment. Without nukes, just how do you damage a refinery to the point where it's production is seriously degraded for a period of at least a few years
The answer I think (and somebody PLEASE give me more options!) is sabotage and commando attacks.