The ANZACs in T2k

[Legbreaker]

Well ladies and gentlemen, I've FINALLY got my grubby hands on the book I've been searching for over the last few years so an Australian & New Zealand sourcebook may just be happening.
As mentioned elsewhere, I'll be including a little information on the areas the ANZAC forces are deployed (Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Korea and Cypress prior to pulling out later in the war), but really only touching on the opposition - Indonesia for example has a MASSIVE military and would take me years to sort through.

So, anyone who's already worked up something for those units and areas, I'd love to hear from. I intend to incorporate what I can and alter only what doesn't fit the overall picture or come close to real capabilities.

[Green Monkey]

I have no firsthand experience at all to contribute but I am really looking forward to reading what you come up with.

I will look in my library at home and see whether I can find anything useful that you might not have and message if I find anything. I guess its forward looking publications about military affairs published in the 1980s

[Legbreaker]

Actually anything anyone else has already written up would be good.
I'm drawing as much as I can from the relevant PAMs (see image above for one example), filling out units with new recruits and equipping them with whatever I judge Australia would have been capable of producing (not a lot), purchasing (even less with war looming elsewhere) or pulled out of stores (older L1A1 rifles, M60 machineguns, etc and perhaps a few Brens and the odd SMLE for rear echelon units). Then I'll run the war forward a bit and apply loses of personnel and equipment.
Any work others have done already I want to have a good hard look at and see if it can be used either in full or part. The future of T2K in my mind is a collaborative effort.
[/2am raving]

[Legbreaker]

Also, happy to look at any artwork or photos anyone's willing to contribute.

[mcchordsage]

I can send a copy of a study on the NZSAS Squadron in the 60s (Borneo and Vietnam) if you'd like.

[Olefin]

There are two mentions of the ANZAC forces between my East Africa Sourcebook (details what happened to forces assigned to Sri Lanka as part of UN contingent that didnt get pulled out) and also Raellus in his Korean Sourcebook. Otherwise its pretty sparse - its too bad Challenge folded when it did - there was supposed to be an article about an adventure in Australia but have no idea if anyone ever saw it

[Legbreaker]

Anything anyone's got is welcome, whether that be from the already published books and magazines, or their own work.
Anything canon will be dealt with accordingly, and anything else assessed on it's merits and included if possible/logical.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

@Olefin, in regards to the adventure you're talking about, as far as I know, it was never seen by anyone outside the GDW office (and obviously whoever the author shared it with).
I made some inquiries a long, long time ago about the fate of that last issue and if I remember right, it never got to the printers (let alone onto the shop shelves) and ownership of the articles reverted back to the original authors.

I even tried to track down the author of that Australian adventure but without any success. As far as I remember from the very limited description in Challenge #77, it's quite likely it would have had only minor details on Aussie military capabilities.

@Legbreaker, as always mate, anything I might know or have is yours for the taking. I still have some publications & books about the Australian armed forces of the 1980s - early 1990s although I suspect much of the material they cover is now available online.
I don't have any of the training or organizational pams but I do have a couple of the "Navy Today" PR books from the early 80s as well as "Australia's Armed Forces of the Eighties". I know you probably have all the land forces stuff covered but for navy and air force I might have something you can use.

[Legbreaker]

I know you probably have all the land forces stuff covered but for navy and air force I might have something you can use.

Given the very limited naval and air assets in the rest of the world, I'll probably minimise Australian capability in those areas also. We already know Australian SAS used a French sub to get to Poland (scenario "What's Polish for G'day"), so it's likely there's no Australian assets capable of making the journey, and Australia's usual first contribution to any military action (Korea in this case) is usually air power. Against Soviet pilots and aircraft it doesn't seem likely many are left.
However, if you (or anyone else) has any suggestions in those areas, lets hear them.

[RN7]

Given the very limited naval and air assets in the rest of the world, I'll probably minimise Australian capability in those areas also. We already know Australian SAS used a French sub to get to Poland (scenario "What's Polish for G'day"), so it's likely there's no Australian assets capable of making the journey, and Australia's usual first contribution to any military action (Korea in this case) is usually air power. Against Soviet pilots and aircraft it doesn't seem likely many are left.
However, if you (or anyone else) has any suggestions in those areas, lets hear them.

I would say air assets would be an area that Australian could upgrade in T2K, and fairly quickly as well. They use mainly American equipment and America would have ramped up aircraft production leading up to Twilight. Australia is wealthy enough and is close enough of ally to have been able to buy new build or reconditioned fast jets, transports and helicopters. Maybe some from the UK and France as well.

BTW if you want some information about Australian forces at this time I can give you what I have. I've just come back to Europe from the States this morning and I'm really jet lagged, but I will have a look later in the week.

[Rainbow Six]

At one point in time (maybe around 15 20 years ago) someone (I dont know who) had a write up for an ANZAC (plus attached Pacific Islanders iirc) unit in Germany. The premise was theyd gathered together assorted Aussie / NZ / Fijian personnel that had been in theatre (UN peacekeepers, training teams, personnel on exchange postings, Australian Federal Police, I think even a couple of Defence Attaches, etc) and consolidated them into one Company sized unit. Obviously it was non canon.

I dont know if said site still exists and my google fu (admittedly restricted by being at work) isnt coming up with anything maybe someone else remembers it or has a link to it

[Legbreaker]

I would say air assets would be an area that Australian could upgrade in T2K, and fairly quickly as well. They use mainly American equipment and America would have ramped up aircraft production leading up to Twilight. Australia is wealthy enough and is close enough of ally to have been able to buy new build or reconditioned fast jets, transports and helicopters. Maybe some from the UK and France as well.

Lol!
You really don't understand Australian government procurement procedures do you Usually if the military wants something, it spends a good decade being argued about by the politicians and then MAYBE there's an order put in for delivery sometime in the following decade. By the time we actually get our hands on it, it's already a generation old!
Take our tanks for example, used M1s from the 1980 we received only a few years ago (albeit fully reconditioned and upgraded).
Also, Australia really isn't that wealthy, certainly not enough to be splashing loads of cash around. And then there's the small issue of WWIII being well under way by the time the need for additional planes is recognised - supply just wouldn't be there.

BTW if you want some information about Australian forces at this time I can give you what I have. I've just come back to Europe from the States this morning and I'm really jet lagged, but I will have a look later in the week.

Anything you've got is appreciated. Note there's no huge rush, right now I'm just gathering information which I expect will take me a few months to sort through and reorganise into something coherent.

At one point in time (maybe around 15 20 years ago) someone (I dont know who) had a write up for an ANZAC (plus attached Pacific Islanders iirc) unit in Germany. The premise was theyd gathered together assorted Aussie / NZ / Fijian personnel that had been in theatre (UN peacekeepers, training teams, personnel on exchange postings, Australian Federal Police, I think even a couple of Defence Attaches, etc) and consolidated them into one Company sized unit. Obviously it was non canon.

I remember seeing that myself. Struck me as a bit unbelievable and their ham-fisted homebrew method of including Australians and New Zealanders in the European war.
I may actually have a hard copy of that site floating about somewhere...

[RN7]

Lol!
You really don't understand Australian government procurement procedures do you Usually if the military wants something, it spends a good decade being argued about by the politicians and then MAYBE there's an order put in for delivery sometime in the following decade. By the time we actually get our hands on it, it's already a generation old!
Take our tanks for example, used M1s from the 1980 we received only a few years ago (albeit fully reconditioned and upgraded).
Also, Australia really isn't that wealthy, certainly not enough to be splashing loads of cash around. And then there's the small issue of WWIII being well under way by the time the need for additional planes is recognised - supply just wouldn't be there...

But in wartime they probably think like that, and especially with Indonesia just to the north becoming expansionist. Where is South Irian

Nearly everything Australia used at that time (and now) is American and they train with the Americans, I don't think there would be to much problem getting American aircraft. Not F-15's but certainly F-18's, some F-111's and a lot of helicopters and some C-130's and P-3s.

[Raellus]

A General Note on Expanding an Air Force

Something that is easy to forget when talking about expanding an air force (in general) is the time it takes to train pilots and ground crew. Learning to fly and/or service an advanced jet attack-fighter takes many man hours, with time in the classroom, simulators, gliders or prop-planes, and jet trainers.

So, Australia might be able to get a hold of more F-18s and whatnot, but it's also going to need qualified pilots to fly them, and technicians to service the greater numbers of aircraft (one would also need more radar operators, in-flight refuelers, etc.) and those factors are going limit the size and speed of AF expansion.

Similar strictures apply to the expansion of a navy as well.

[Raellus]

ANZUK Brigade

I included a reformed ANZUK Brigade in my Korean Peninsula Sourcebook. I researched likely units to include in the OOB, but my sources were rather limited and I wasn't particularly satisfied with what I came up with.

Legbreaker, IF you end up working up a more accurate Australian OOB for your planned sourcebook, I would be happy to include a revised ANZUK Brigade OOB in an updated version of the KPSB. You would of course receive a credit in said version for your trouble. Let me know.