Horsemen of the Apocalypse

[dragoon500ly]

Pulled this from some old Cavalry Journal articles...interesting!

Horses require 12 pounds of grain per day (mostly corn).

A wagon, pulled by a 6-mule team can haul roughly 2,000lbs.

Wearing pack saddles, the same 6 mules can carry only 200lbs each, total of 1,200 pounds. Mules require 10lbs of grain per day.

Terry's Column (Little Bighorn Campaign) numbered some 1,131 personnel and 1,694 horses and mules required eight tons of supply per day, carried by 150 wagons...even when rolling four abreast, the wagon column stretched over a half mile.

[therantingsavant]

Has anyone seen Twelve Strong

Chris Hemsworth movie about the 5th Special Forces group that travelled Afghanistan on horseback just after 9/11.


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[Legbreaker]

Not a bad movie, but they downplayed the part the Afghani's played a bit I thought.
Certainly more entertainment value than educational even if it is basically a true story (I believe they switched a few events around and changed who got hurt, when and how badly).

[therantingsavant]

Certainly more entertainment value than educational even if it is basically a true story (I believe they switched a few events around and changed who got hurt, when and how badly).

Found this, was interesting to compare to the movie.

[Raellus]

https://warisboring.com/us-cavalry-unit-commemorates-gen-pattons-order-to-save-hundreds-of-lipizzaner-stallions-from-being-eaten-by-soviets/

[rcaf_777]

Never going to happen in reality. As mentioned, my webbing alone often weighed about that. Add in pack, etc and I doubt I ever came in at less that 50 kgs, and that at a time when I was only 65kgs myself!

That said, I could carry that load at a fast walk (about 8kph/5mph) pretty much all day long. Make me run more than a few paces though and I was done.

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry what's next are you going to whip it out too

[Olefin]

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry what's next are you going to whip it out too

lol

[Targan]

Don't make me whip it out. The weather's been cold lately and I won't be looking my best. I'll bet Tassie is colder at the moment, but maybe Leg's got length to spare

[Legbreaker]

Is there a point here or is this just you bragging about how much you can carry what's next are you going to whip it out too

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

[Olefin]

Don't make me whip it out. The weather's been cold lately and I won't be looking my best. I'll bet Tassie is colder at the moment, but maybe Leg's got length to spare

LOL

[swaghauler]

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

In my basic, We had to carry 80lbs (or 75% of body weight if less than 80lbs) for 20 miles under time (6 hours) to graduate basic. The grunts had to do it in like 4 hours. When I was with the Mountain, we had to do 30 miles in 6 hours with "Full Ruck" every month. My combat load as a 60 gunner was 118lbs. Then you see something like this making the news and you just shake your head...

https://youtu.be/2F_3MKYiF_c

[Legbreaker]

Then you see something like this making the news and you just shake your head...

https://youtu.be/2F_3MKYiF_c

Medics. Explains it all really. How often do they have to leave the aid post carrying much more than a first aid kit and water bottle
Seems pretty obvious to me that "Captain" had a bit of a heart condition. Bet she recovered real quick once she dropped her pack and the cameras stopped rolling.

[swaghauler]

Medics. Explains it all really. How often do they have to leave the aid post carrying much more than a first aid kit and water bottle
Seems pretty obvious to me that "Captain" had a bit of a heart condition. Bet she recovered real quick once she dropped her pack and the cameras stopped rolling.

YEP. Look at the guy at time index 0.31 Seconds. He looks really "beat" by the course. Looks like he's on patrol.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

While the idea that soldiers should carry no more 32% of their total body weight is a great idea, it's like the saying "No plan survives contact with the enemy." It all works in theory but practical necessity says otherwise.

I think in the 1800s when armies marched for several days to reach a battlefield, it would have been realistically achievable (and completely necessary). They would only have needed to carry fighting order and the baggage trains would carry the rest.
But from the 20th century on, I doubt infantry soldiers in most modern armies would be carrying less than 40% of their body weight. Distances to the battlefield are shorter now because transport drops you as close as possible - there is no baggage train to carry all your extra gear, you carry it all in with you.

Take even a brief look at what the British Paras did in the Falklands and you'll see that infantry units are capable of such feats. Those guys were carrying closer to 80% of their own bodyweight
Even in more modern conflicts like Afghanistan, infantry (of whatever flavour) are carrying bulk ammo and water and plenty more medical supplies than usual, plus all the commo gear and body armour - those troops are not carrying 32% or less of their own bodyweight, it'd be more like 40-50%.

Reminds me of a saying that was common in the Australia Army during the 1970s-90s...
The infantry doesn't want racehorses, it wants packhorses.

[rcaf_777]

Of course there is. Real world example of why the figures are rubbish.
I'm sure any other infantryman could say basically the same thing.

I am was infantry and these figures are not. I carried huge loads of distances and guess what I was in no condition to fight when I reached the end of my route.

remember there are three loads that you see dismounted soldiers carry

Battle Load: Ammo (about 5-6 mags total 200 rounds) and food+water (one meal and two canteens) additional items could include belted ammo, grenades and maybe M-72, helmet and body armor are worn

Extended Load: Battle load with a small pack (with additional food, water, and ammo) and e-tool will also be carried I also carried a ranger blanket

Administrative Load: This is the soldier's rucksack and is not carried into battle due to its size and weight, additional food and water are carried along with sleeping gear and a spare uniform and sundries. Rucksacks are left in an assembly area with the units non-combat troops.

In game terms, PC that are dismounted will become fatigued if they carry too much as will pack animals that why we load limits