Police Forces

[Legbreaker]

...to just be left locked in there cells.

You may even find some family members or sympathetic and/or misguided people take over from the guards by supplying food and other necessities. They may not have the keys to open cells or the equipment to break them open, but...
In the case of family or friends, they may understand that opening the cells and releasing the prisoner(s) could be a very bad thing, but given their personal ties, leaving them to die isn't an option either.

Could be a bit of an adventure hook there. For example a person approaches PCs for help in getting somebody out because they're no longer able to feed them through the bars. Person tells PCs the prisoner is wrongfully imprisoned/victim of marauders or some other sob story (could be true, could be total fiction). PCs help and release a serial killer into the world and then have to deal with the consequences.

[Raellus]

As an alternative to mass killings or locking up inmates and literally throwing away the key, I can imagine a few instances where prison populations are reduced to the worst of the worst (violent criminals, serial recidivists), freeing up a lot of prison space and reducing the number of guards needed to keep them contained. Within the prison walls, the inmates have free reign. The inmates can move freely among the cell blocks, and can use the "yard" to grow food, raise livestock. Local family and friends can supplement this prison-grown food supply if willing and able. If the inmates kill each others, so be it. As long as they don't try to escape, they can do what they please.

Guards maintain a fortified perimeter and are authorized to shoot on sight if prisoners attempt to escape.

[Legbreaker]

...Guards maintain a fortified perimeter and are authorized to shoot on sight if prisoners attempt to escape.

Possible, but I'm thinking that post nuke that will be the exception rather than the rule. How many of the guards, who shouldn't be forming anything more than a professional relationship with inmates, will stick around when supplies and their salary stops coming May be a handful who do it purely out of a sense of duty, however given many of the prisoners in the higher security facilities (especially) have and continue to express great hostility to the staff, in some cases through physical attacks, any sense of duty would likely be to the job, not inmates.

At least in a POW camp, the inmates, while technically hostile, aren't sociopaths, etc. They at least can generally be reasoned with, and both sides tend (not always of course) to have a level of mutual respect. Many of those prisoners could be released without great problem, provided of course they're aware of the general overall situation, and this is shown in the game by many units having integrated other nationalities which in a number of cases include some who were once enemies.

[Raellus]

Possible, but I'm thinking that post nuke that will be the exception rather than the rule. How many of the guards, who shouldn't be forming anything more than a professional relationship with inmates, will stick around when supplies and their salary stops coming May be a handful who do it purely out of a sense of duty, however given many of the prisoners in the higher security facilities (especially) have and continue to express great hostility to the staff, in some cases through physical attacks, any sense of duty would likely be to the job, not inmates.

That's a very valid question. I didn't mention it, but the scenario I presented assumed a prison still administered by a state- i.e. the guards are "paid" in some way by a government of some sorts. Maybe it's just food and fuel, but in a world where such things are no longer a given, it would probably be enough to keep showing up to work.

I agree that once pay stops, the guards are gonso. I can imagine a situation where a local community might take control of administering a prison rather than allowing the release of its inmates into said community, but this would be a very rare exception.

[Legbreaker]

I can imagine a situation where a local community might take control of administering a prison rather than allowing the release of its inmates into said community, but this would be a very rare exception.

Given even just the passive levels of security on prisons, it would take a fairly hefty effort to get inside in the first place just to check on the status of inmates. Far easier to just ignore the problem for a while until it's no longer a problem....

And we all know people in general usually take the easy path.

[Raellus]

Just abandoning a prison is tantamount to releasing the inmates into the community. Without active supervision, most U.S. prisons wouldn't be at all hard to break out of.

I also think y'all overestimate the psychological ease of welding prison cells closed, dooming those inside to a slow, agonizing death via dehydration. The same goes for lining up all the inmates and shooting them, or whatever. I'm sure it would happen, but I reckon it would be the exception rather than the rule.

[pmulcahy11b]

Just abandoning a prison is tantamount to releasing the inmates into the community. Without active supervision, most U.S. prisons wouldn't be at all hard to break out of.

I also think y'all overestimate the psychological ease of welding prison cells closed, dooming those inside to a slow, agonizing death via dehydration. The same goes for lining up all the inmates and shooting them, or whatever. I'm sure it would happen, but I reckon it would be the exception rather than the rule.

Hence the snipers stationed around the prison. Sooner or later, all the prisoners will be dead, one way or another.

And I would have no problem welding the prison cells shut, myself if necessary. As I said, we would empty out the prison of nonviolent prisoners, and weld the bars shut on the nasty murders, rapists, child molesters, etc.

[copeab]

And I would have no problem welding the prison cells shut, myself if necessary. As I said, we would empty out the prison of nonviolent prisoners, and weld the bars shut on the nasty murders, rapists, child molesters, etc.

And these prisoners would calmly stand at the back of cells while being welded in

[pmulcahy11b]

And these prisoners would calmly stand at the back of cells while being welded in

No, you bring mean-looking gun-toting guards with you.

[Legbreaker]

Of if they get too close, you "accidentally slip" with the welding torch...

[CDAT]

Just abandoning a prison is tantamount to releasing the inmates into the community. Without active supervision, most U.S. prisons wouldn't be at all hard to break out of.

I also think y'all overestimate the psychological ease of welding prison cells closed, dooming those inside to a slow, agonizing death via dehydration. The same goes for lining up all the inmates and shooting them, or whatever. I'm sure it would happen, but I reckon it would be the exception rather than the rule.

I am not sure how the prisons around you are built, but the ones that I have done prisoner transfers to were I live would not be easy to break out of, also someone was talking about using them using the "yard" to grow food and such, the one that I go to most of the time, it is inside, with thick walls all around it. You would need heavy equipment to do just about anything with this center.

[Legbreaker]

I am not sure how the prisons around you are built...

All the prisons I know (and a number of other industrial facilities also) are built so that the passive measures will absolutely stand up to just about anything prisoners can throw at it. Sure, over a long period of time they may be able to dig their way out with a spoon, but that isn't going to happen without starving to death first.
Some prisons do have various tools and machinery which could help, but that's all locked away out of reach when not actually in use and heavily supervised - might as well all be on the moon for all the good they will do.
Anything above low security facilities are all steel and reinforced concrete with no available areas to grow more than the odd weed in the cracks. Low security (usually prison farms in my experience) are a different matter, but only prisoners who present the absolute minimum of risk get sent there and in a T2K situation have probably already been drafted or used as additional manpower elsewhere. The prison itself might end up used as a POW camp with a little bit of an upgrade, and later as a secure base for a military unit, or even local civilians looking for some sort of a solid fence to help keep marauders at bay.

[Raellus]

Most prisons here in the U.S. built after the 1960s or so, are surrounded only with chain-link fencing. If said perimeter fence isn't monitored and guarded (and/or electrified), there's nothing to stop people from scaling or knocking said fences down. Once outside of the buildings where the inmates are housed- which admittedly might take some doing- I can't imagine it would be that difficult to get past the fencing.

Getting out of the housing units would be trickier, but do y'all really think a couple of hundred men couldn't figure out a way to bust through a few metal doors It would take time and a lot of muscle power, but it's entirely possible.

[Legbreaker]

...couple of hundred men couldn't figure out a way to bust through a few metal doors It would take time and a lot of muscle power, but it's entirely possible.

Not when they're designed to prevent more than a few men at a time applying their strength, and there's no suitable materials available to make rope - prison sheets for example are made to come apart easily when put under that sort of stress, mostly as suicide prevention, but also to eliminate their use as rope to go over walls, etc.

Even if you could get rope strong enough to handle the MANY tonnes of tension, getting that many prisoners to work together all at the same time would be an absolutely amazing feat of leadership. Most can't even work in pairs without somebody ending up with a shiv in the ribs.

Additionally, prisoners spend most of their time in relatively small groups (unlike what movies like to show), with gates, doors, etc between each group. It's really only in the exercise yard that they can be found in larger numbers, and then they're locked out of the buildings and away from all the useful stuff that might help them escape.

I really can't imagine the guards letting the prisoners have essentially free run of the place when they walk off the job. More likely they'd be locked inside perhaps with access to the kitchens, latrines and food storage areas, but beyond that....

I know here in Australia on the rare occasions guards go on strike, police have to take over. At those times the prisoners remain locked inside their individual cells with food delivered to them. A toilet and hand basin are in each cell to cover immediate needs. The only difference to that I can see in a T2K situation is the police wouldn't be stepping in to keep an eye on things and it's unlikely food delivers would occur. Might be a prisoner or two released into the gaol to attend to that, but they'd still be locked within the walls just like everyone else (just with a little more leg room).

[Raellus]

Actually...

I'm not proud of this, but the U.S.A. has the largest prison population in the world, and hundreds of prisons run by states, the federal government, and for-profit corporations (not to mention city and county jails, and juvenile detention centers). There are currently at least a half-a-dozen documentary/"reality" shows on television here in the US about prison life, and fictional depictions of said like Oz and Orange is the New Black. I haven't watched every episode of every one of these many prison shows, but I've seen enough to know that:

In some prisons and jails, inmates in gen-pop spend most of their waking hours hanging around in large groups and are only confined to their cells at night. In particularly overcrowded prisons, they live in open-floor dormitory areas.

In others, large groups of inmates work most of the day in laundries, kitchens, and workshops. Such inmates have access to various tools and machinery that would be quite helpful in getting out (assuming they could get into said work areas. See +).

Your characterization that prisoners can't work together and will only end up killing one another is overly simplistic and calls on the basest of stereotypes*. Prisoners have worked together to build/operate stills, pass notes from door to door in the solitary confinement blocks, develop working economies, and run various criminal enterprises from inside prison walls, and continue to do so as I write (and you read). There's simply no logical explanation for why inmates couldn't work together to break out of prison buildings in a life-or-starve-to-death situation.

*Even in supermax prisons, there are engineers, chemists, construction workers, etc. serving time for murder and other high crimes. These are people with knowledge and skills that would be very useful in breaking out of prison.

Yes, the prisoners would be locked inside prison buildings when the guards leave, but unless they are each locked and/or welded into their individual cells, they will eventually be able to get out.

A. I don't think most sane, ethical people would be OK with having a direct hand in the slow death of dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of people.

B. Yes, there would be quite a few that would reluctantly do it, and even some would do so enthusiastically with little prompting. But, as soon as the prisoners figure out what's going on, there's going to be bedlam. Welding inmates in their cells is much easier said than done.

+To execute the simplest of breakouts, groups of four men, working in rotating shifts, using a metal bench or some other basic ersatz battering ram, could, with several hours (or even days of work), defeat a steel door.

All of the above is just for the United States. In several third world states (at least), prisons are essentially walled in colonies where inmates are largely left to their own devices. There are guards to make sure that they don't get out, and food deliveries, but the inmates essentially have free run of the prison.

Granted, Australian prisons might be very different, so I'll cede to your authority there. I doubt the Aussie prisoners are all that much different from prisoners everywhere else, though.

BTW, have you read Shantaram