4th ed T2K

[Legbreaker]

Let's be fair. The other T2k FB page isn't exactly a-political.

It's not intended to be. It's intended to not cow down to PC and minority demands. Members may say what they like without risk of censorship (beyond the usual politeness society as a whole expects), as long as it's tied back to T2K in some way.
The group linked to is run by a self confessed communist who actively shuts down anyone with a differing opinion. Definitely not a place for open and free discussion.

[Cypher]

Totally agree Olefin, this has been one of the most refreshing (admittedly small) rpg communities in this regard, and like you said, a diverse cast has always been represented in T2k (like the v2 cover, for example). It's one of the things that (subconsciously I think) made it stand out for me all those years ago as opposed to classic d&d, for example.

Some gaming communities have seen a vocal minority responding extremely negatively to the idea of a cast of characters with more diversity - see the reaction to Games Workshop's recent novel series announcement with a black space marine on the cover :eyeroll:

Back to 4th Ed, I quite like the art direction we've seen so far, it's got a reasonable amount of grit.

As I've said over on the FL forums, my big hope is for a set of settlement building and expanding rules, with appropriate tweaks for different biomes around the world as the setting expands.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Now Tegyrius* will know better than me so if wants to correct me, no problem, but I'm pretty sure 3rd Ed. had rules for scavenging materials and building various structures. I have a vague recollection of it because at the time I thought it was similar (in a good way) to the same rules in the Aftermath RPG.
They may be suitable for converting to 4th Ed. perhaps

* and any of the other forum members who play 3rd Ed.

[Targan]

It's not intended to be. It's intended to not cow down to PC and minority demands. Members may say what they like without risk of censorship (beyond the usual politeness society as a whole expects), as long as it's tied back to T2K in some way.
The group linked to is run by a self confessed communist who actively shuts down anyone with a differing opinion. Definitely not a place for open and free discussion.

I couldn't give a shit that she's a communist. I find myself eye-rolling at quite a few of her pronouncements. But on the plus side, she's driven away quite a few bigoted wankers from her page, and I find that pleasing to me.

[Legbreaker]

I couldn't give a shit that she's a communist. I find myself eye-rolling at quite a few of her pronouncements. But on the plus side, she's driven away quite a few bigoted wankers from her page, and I find that pleasing to me.

Others may see it differently, but personally the greatest bigotry I've seen in that group is from them.

[Targan]

Others may see it differently, but personally the greatest bigotry I've seen in that group is from them.

Well no-one is forcing you to interact with that page. No downside that I can see.

[sellanraa]

Just chiming in to say I'm still cautiously optimistic and hope it brings in a new group of players interested in the setting. Digging the new art too

[Olefin]

Well at least she let me back on when I published the fanzine and pointed out how unfair it was to kick off a canon writer and one who was trying to get material from other writers for more of the fanzine. And so far its been ok being back on there - got in contact with Joe Thomas for instance and he is open to more material for the 3rd volume of the fanzine.

And the Facebook group I moderate definitely is as apolitical as it can be. I pointed that out recently and pointedly - as long as its Twilight 2000 related all discussion and viewpoints are welcome. Which is a big difference from the other FB page that literally kicked people off for having conservative viewpoints on their personal FB pages even if they never mentioned it on the T2K FB page. Which doesnt say we havent had a few rough spots of our own.

Its one reason so many have come to our FB page. And I always mention this forum as a place to go as well and that Pauls page is a great source of info.

One thing I am happy about is that the 4th edition writers are very open to new material for the current editions being published either at drivethrurpg thru Marc or on their own forum they will be establishing. Ie they are saying that now that 4th edition is out that you can still publish new work on the earlier editions if you wish.

[Olefin]

I couldn't give a shit that she's a communist. I find myself eye-rolling at quite a few of her pronouncements. But on the plus side, she's driven away quite a few bigoted wankers from her page, and I find that pleasing to me.

well the number of people who have been driven away by her is considerable - almost all of them have joined our FB page - and they are definitely not bigoted wankers from what I am seeing - they have made our FB page a very going concern with actual free dialogue where you dont have to worry about every utterance being politically correct or getting banned

but again we keep it to T2K - thats why I recently left the main FB Babylon 5 page - it was turning into a discussion on current politics instead of what it was supposed to be about - thats why I am glad the 4th edition is sticking to the old timeline in the main - i.e. with luck it wont get itself mired in today's politics and cancel culture in any way since those didnt exist back in 1995-96

[Olefin]

I am interested by the way to see if they will keep New America - it was a focal point of V1 but not really mentioned that much in V2.2 - almost as if the writers began to realize that it really didnt make sense to have some vague organized conspiracy movement like that when they started on the second edition

Be interesting to see how they handle it or if instead they may have various separatist organizations spring up throughout the world like the German one mentioned in Going Home

[Raellus]

License to Bigot

well the number of people who have been driven away by her is considerable - almost all of them have joined our FB page - and they are definitely not bigoted wankers from what I am seeing - they have made our FB page a very going concern with actual free dialogue where you dont have to worry about every utterance being politically correct or getting banned

During the height of the BLM protests in the wake of the George Floyd killing, someone on the the alternative FB T2k fan page posted a meme of a kneeling British soldier firing an SLR with the caption, "This is how you take a knee."

If that's the kind of "a-political free speech" that the FB GP page welcomes, then again, I can see why Free League is staying away. At the very least, that post and the lack of admin response to said drove this contributor away.

Back to T2k, though, I think New America is the bad guy du jour for 2020. Back in the 1980s, it might have seemed like something out of left field, but with the proliferation of anti-gov't and alt-right (read: white supremacist) militias in the U.S. nowadays, New America seems more realistic than ever. If it isn't featured in v4, it might be because it hits too close to home.

[sellanraa]

Back in the 1980s, it might have seemed like something out of left field, but with the proliferation of anti-gov't and alt-right (read: white supremacist) militias in the U.S. nowadays, New America seems more realistic than ever. If it isn't featured in v4, it might be because it hits too close to home.

I've never been super interested in the US/'back home' side of T2K, but I hope they lean into this. This has always been just below the surface in the US, so grappling with that content within the structure of a game could be really useful and meaningful.

[Olefin]

During the height of the BLM protests in the wake of the George Floyd killing, someone on the the alternative FB T2k fan page posted a meme of a kneeling British soldier firing an SLR with the caption, "This is how you take a knee."

If that's the kind of "a-political free speech" that the FB GP page welcomes, then again, I can see why Free League is staying away. At the very least, that post and the lack of admin response to said drove this contributor away.

Back to T2k, though, I think New America is the bad guy du jour for 2020. Back in the 1980s, it might have seemed like something out of left field, but with the proliferation of anti-gov't and alt-right (read: white supremacist) militias in the U.S. nowadays, New America seems more realistic than ever. If it isn't featured in v4, it might be because it hits too close to home.

Actually that post is gone - and both of us know who posted it - cough cough Legbreaker cough cough - and that led to the direct "its either about T2K or the post is gone" edict - so come back if you feel like it - have been making sure I am on there more and that the moderators are more engaged

Actually I think if anything an organized New America needs to be gone - i.e. there is no way that there will be a single anti-govt organization that does what NA does - for one those groups tend to not be ones that cooperate with each other - now several different groups here and there - some pro-left, some pro-right, some criminal gangs, some just good old fashioned "screw the govt I aint paying taxes or sending my food anywhere but here" groups - makes a lot more sense

Think more the World War Z situation (from the book not the movie) - they mentioned multiple breakaways here and there - none of them were coordinated but they were major pains in the butt to getting the country back together (there were mentions to a criminal gang in Chicago and a breakaway group in South Dakota that required tanks and Bradleys to put them down)

so you have a leftist group here, a rightist group there, organized criminal gangs here (i.e. think NYC Armies of the Night situation in Manhattan) but with little coordination between them

and frankly the whole New America philosophy was complete BS - I have never ever heard anything like that here in the US preached by any rightist or for that matter leftist group

[Olefin]

Also I hope they are smart enough to not slavishly say they need to obey the Twilight 2300AD future - especially considering its not GDW anymore controlled.

Things like leaving Mexico occupying a big part of the Southwest and ignoring the simple fact that a lot of the area they occupied is dependent on water from the north - i.e. how they end up staying there with no water supplies at all is not logical. I could see possibly them occupying areas like San Diego or possibly southern AZ or Texas because the water situation is different - but LA as a thriving metropolis when almost all their water comes from sources under US control (and the US hates the Mexican occupation) - nope.

So with luck they can fix some of the obvious issues of the old editions since they wont have that whole "tied to the timeline of 2300AD" that GDW had.

[Raellus]

Ignoring It Doesn't Mean It's Not There

Actually that post is gone - and both of us know who posted it - cough cough Legbreaker cough cough - and that led to the direct "its either about T2K or the post is gone" edict - so come back if you feel like it - have been making sure I am on there more and that the moderators are more engaged

Thanks for removing the offending post. I didn't want to name names.

and frankly the whole New America philosophy was complete BS - I have never ever heard anything like that here in the US preached by any rightist or for that matter leftist group

Unfortunately, that's not true. Both Richard Spenser (one time leader/spokesperson of the Alt-right movement) and Jared Taylor (founder of American Renaissance) call for a "White Homeland" within the borders of what is currently the U.S.A. Both are pals with former KKK leader David Duke. Neither are shy about any of this either. That's just two, relatively "moderate", white supremacists representing fairly large groups. There are lots of smaller, more extreme white supremacist groups (Atomwaffen Division, for example) out there as well. Have you heard about Accelerationists They want to try to trigger a race war that will lead to a breakdown of the American state after which they can form their dream of a white homeland. All it takes is one charismatic figurehead to bring all of these groups together, either by force of personality or just force (like the SS destroying the SA) and you've got yourself a New America.

If you're interested in the topic, you might want to watch Alt-right: Day of Rage on Netflix. It examines both the Alt-right and Antifa movements and profiles a couple of its leaders (two Alt-right, one Antifa). It definitely leans left, but it gives the right ample voice. If you weren't aware of the Alt-right's complete platform, this doc will learn you.