On this day 25 years ago (Commentary Thread)

[Homer]

Thanks! It's already a great piece of work.

21st TAACOM was a beast at its height. While some it's units were tied to static facilities, others could and did deploy off Kaserne during alerts. There were also the Corps Support Commands.

The UKdo's were pretty interesting. I wonder if they'd have gone forward with their supported organizations into the DDR or Poland Or would they have formed support structure for the Heer as it expanded and absorbed the NVA

I read your piece on 1998. It'd be interesting to see the wallmeisters in action. From what I know they were very skilled at their job, we'll supplied, and familiar with the terrain in their areas of operation.

[chico20854]

January 9, 1997

Nothing official today, but unofficially:

The first units from the US 25th ID(L) enter combat in Korea, reinforcing the battered 3rd Brigade, 2nd ID as they strive to contain the North Korean advance.

Open rebellion breaks out in scattered Polish Army units, mostly in individual battalions or regiments within a division, in response to the Pact defeat in East Germany and emergence of a Free Polish government.

The Dutch Red Army attempts to ambush a truck convoy leaving the Stegerveld ammunition dump; the convoy guards suppress the attackers and the convoy moves on.

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Unrest in Nicosia, Cyprus continues. Greek and Turkish youth engage in street battles while nationalist leaders call for calm.

The 126th MRD enters Romanian territory, assigned to the 5th Guards Army, and is almost immediately in action.

The 482nd TFW (AFRES) launches an offensive fighter sweep over Turkish troops in Bulgaria, drawing out Bulgarian Air Force fighters and allowing American ELINT aircraft orbiting over Anatolia to identify the electronic emissions of Bulgarian air defense units. One F-16, two MiG-21s and a MiG-29 are shot down.

The Ranger and Abraham Lincoln carrier battle groups steam east at high speed, while the Boat Troop of NZSAS made a more leisurely exit from the Cam Ranh region aboard the late Admiral Selevinskis barge, enjoying the liquor and company aboard.

[Homer]

The piece on the Cam Ranh raid is really good. Great writing and really expands the naval war outside the European theatre and Gulf of California!

The ELINT piece is pretty neat. One thing that always struck me in cannon was the fact that effective intel organizations existed beyond TDM. Even though main NSA was probably destroyed during the strike on Meade and Medina was probably lost to the Mexican invasion, the US (or MILGOV) should still have some SIGINT capability. Fort Gordon and the NSA facility there sit within the oeIron Triangle, and Buckley in Aurora should be firmly under control. Ergo, reset, the last submarine series, satellite down, and other modules may be driven by at least partly by SIGINT.

NIMA may have survived in St Louis, but the Brookmont HQ is likely gone, either fallout from the strikes in the DMV or overwhelmed in civil disorder. Given the attrition of overhead platforms to ASAT and loss of Vandenberg and Canaveral, they may still be able to meet MILGOVs needs. Dissemination would be the problem.

[Targan]

January 9, 1997... while the Boat Troop of NZSAS made a more leisurely exit from the Cam Ranh region aboard the late Admiral Selevinskis barge, enjoying the liquor and company aboard.

If it was going to be anybody doing this is would be the Kiwis and the Aussies

[chico20854]

January 10, 1997

Nothing official today, but unofficially:

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The 202nd Tactical Fighter Squadron (SC Air National Guard) is reported ready for action following its conversion from F-4Es (which had been transferred to the Luftwaffe's JBG-36 in November to replace their losses) to F-20A Tigersharks.

An explosion rocks the ATACMS missile assembly plant in Horizon, TX. Thanks to the construction of the facility only one building is destroyed, killing 8 workers.

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In the North Pacific, 3rd Fleet launches Operation Steel Force - a raid on the Soviet naval complex Petropavlovsk-Kamchaktiy by the carriers Nimitz and Constellation. The raid is less costly than the recent raid on Cam Ranh Bay, but succeeds mostly in knocking back the city's air defenses and mining the channel leading out of the sheltered bay, with little direct damage to Soviet naval forces.

There is chaos in the Polish Army as rebel units call on their compatriots to join them. Polish Generals order all units locked down as they attempt to regain control, furiously trying to avoid having Soviet units put down the uprisings.

There is a third night of violence in Cyprus. Rioting expands to the city of Larnaca on the south side of the island.

USAF and Turkish Air Force units launch raids on the Bulgarian air defense network, enlarging the hole that had been created the Turkish advance into southeastern Bulgaria.

The Soviet Naval Infantry's 810th Brigade loads onto amphibious shipping in Sevastopol as high-priority reinforcements for battered Bulgarian troops facing the advancing Turks.

The 116th MRD, a mobilization-only division from the Leningrad MD, is called into service.

In the central Pacific, the commander of the 7th Fleet orders the USS Ranger's air wing to transfer as many surviving aircraft and aircrew as possible to Abraham Lincoln's in order to bring it as close to full strength. Advanced munitions are to be offloaded to replenishment ships accompanying Ranger and the carrier is ordered to return to the west coast for reconstitution while Abraham Lincoln is to sail north to support the embattled allied forces in Korea.

[chico20854]

The piece on the Cam Ranh raid is really good. Great writing and really expands the naval war outside the European theatre and Gulf of California!

The ELINT piece is pretty neat. One thing that always struck me in cannon was the fact that effective intel organizations existed beyond TDM. Even though main NSA was probably destroyed during the strike on Meade and Medina was probably lost to the Mexican invasion, the US (or MILGOV) should still have some SIGINT capability. Fort Gordon and the NSA facility there sit within the oeIron Triangle, and Buckley in Aurora should be firmly under control. Ergo, reset, the last submarine series, satellite down, and other modules may be driven by at least partly by SIGINT.

NIMA may have survived in St Louis, but the Brookmont HQ is likely gone, either fallout from the strikes in the DMV or overwhelmed in civil disorder. Given the attrition of overhead platforms to ASAT and loss of Vandenberg and Canaveral, they may still be able to meet MILGOVs needs. Dissemination would be the problem.

Dissemination (and comms in general) is the biggest problem! After Soviet EMP attacks and the general breakdown of order, even hardened facilities/assets are at risk of civil disorder and the demands of continuing to operate for three years without pre-war levels of support - electricity, food, fuel for backup generators, spare parts, motivation for staff (although rage against the Soviets is a strong one!). In a way, yes, canon is amazing with the level of intel activity that is still ongoing, although they concentrate on the HUMINT side rather than ELINT.

I'm also sort of struck by the important locations that are mentioned as intact in canon - Ft. Benning, Ellsworth AFB, most of the military industry. I guess part is that the anti-C2, anti-petroleum strikes with limited counterforce was sufficient to cripple both nations without leading to an all-out exchange. As we like to remark in the DC Working Group, we want this to remain Twilight:2000 and not Gamma World!

[chico20854]

If it was going to be anybody doing this is would be the Kiwis and the Aussies

We are all aware (and fully supportive) of folks having a good time!

[Homer]

Ive always chalked a large part of the damage in canon up to two things: first, adventuring after even a counterforce exchange would suck (fallout over the Midwest, the old NW, and mid Atlantic) and would really just be a struggle for calories; second, much of the knowledge we have today was unavailable or even protected in the 80s (the Greenbriar gets no mention and NSA was still oeno such agency). With that in mind, most of the plot devices never fazed me (seminoles overrunning SE Florida, the drought, and naval attrition notwithstanding).

Really cool to see you putting meat in the bones of canon. Keep it up!

[Homer]

Interesting you mentioned the 25th ID. A friend of mine was assigned to the "25th Dimension" during a simulation exercise in Korea. He stated the sobering moment came when the division was "ineffective" roughly 5 days after commitment against a heavy model NK force using just conventional weapons, no NBC.

[cawest]

i could see that the USS Ranger's air wing now gets F-8s, Harriers, A4, A7, Vikings. i don't seem them bring out Demons, but A-1's with sidewinder for CAP. these craft would make this a good sub and raider hunter.

[Ursus Maior]

Sidewinders against submarines Or do I get that wrong and you mean sidewinders for self-defense and other stuff for ASW/ASuW

[cawest]

Sidewinders against submarines Or do I get that wrong and you mean sidewinders for self-defense and other stuff for ASW/ASuW

sidewinders (and cannon) would be used for fleet defense and to cut down any bombers, helos, or "other" light aircraft that might be away from the "main" battle areas.

[chico20854]

i could see that the USS Ranger's air wing now gets F-8s, Harriers, A4, A7, Vikings. i don't seem them bring out Demons, but A-1's with sidewinder for CAP. these craft would make this a good sub and raider hunter.

The next aircraft to come out of storage (less those sold to Iran and China in 1996) are A-7Es and F-4Ss, which were retired from USN service in the early 90s, along with A-4s of various models, which had remained in limited service (and were in USMC reserve squadrons). There were still older sailors, aircrew and reservists that were familiar with them. I have a plan for the older AV-8C Harriers, don't worry! The S-3 Viking remain in front line service, there are too many Soviet subs about to send them ashore!

By the summer, half of Strike Fleet Atlantic fighter and light attack squadrons are flying F-4s and A-7s. The A-12 never gets produced in sufficient numbers to do anything other than maintain Enterprise's all weather attack squadrons at about proper strength.

[chico20854]

January 11, 1997

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NATO minelaying of the GIUK gap begins.

unofficially:

The French government files a formal protest and a request to a German court to force compliance with commercial charter contract on the German-flagged cargo ship Ariana, which France claims has an obligation to continue to transport Ariane rockets to the launch facility in French Guiana. The ship is instead en-route to the US to load military equipment. (The French government fails to note that it is intent on lofting a electronic intelligence satellite with the rocket, hence the demand for quick action.)

Texas Rangers report that they have recovered a Soviet AT-4 missile transport tube near location of prior day's explosion at the ATAMS missile assembly plant outside El Paso.

The tug boat Janet Pommet is hijacked by unknown agents and sunk in San Diego harbor channel, partially blocking it.

RAF Mildenhall is hit by Soviet cruise missiles once again launched over the Baltic Sea and overflying southern Sweden; The Commanding Generals, USAF Europe and 3rd Air Force and some of their staff are killed. A C-23 light transport and two EC-135H Command & Control aircraft are destroyed.

NATO launches Operation Thundercloud - coordinated pre-dawn landings by the British 6th Airmobile Brigade, East German 40th Air Assault Brigade and the West German 26th Luftlande Brigade to seize bridgeheads over the Oder and Niesse Rivers, opposite Frankfurt-on-Oder, Gubin and Gorlitz, taking advantage of the disarray within the Polish Army.

Canadian and British fishing boats, B-52s from the 42nd Bomb Wing and USCG C-130s are initially involved in the minelaying effort in the North Atlantic, intending to cut off the resupply routes that SACLANT suspects are being used to support Soviet commerce raiders.

A bus full of Turkish Cyptiot construction workers in Limassol, Cyprus is stopped and the passengers dragged off and beaten by a Greek mob. The subsequent rioting expands across the island.

The advance party of the 278rd Armored Cavalry Regiment is flown to Amsterdam-Schipol airport to arrange for reception of the rest of the regiment.

A shipowner reports loss of communications with the MV Diamond Cherry, carrying grain from Port Elizabeth, South Africa to Rimini, Italy.

[chico20854]

Interesting you mentioned the 25th ID. A friend of mine was assigned to the oe25th Dimension during an simulation exercise in Korea. He stated the sobering moment came when the division was oeineffective roughly 5 days after commitment against a heavy model NK force using just conventional weapons, no NBC.

I was reading through some declassified British studies from the early 70s, and they discussed that the only practical way to delay the collapse of defense and start of tactical nuclear war on the Central Front in Germany was to set the initial defense line another 100km to the west, hoping that obstacles and roads flooded with West German refugees would delay advancing Soviet forces. That would buy an extra day or two, bringing the total length of the conventional phase of the war to...

2-4 days.