OT: Deadliest Warrior

[Raellus]

Tonight, here in the U.S., on Spike, the series Deadliest Warrior is airing an episode entitled Green Beret vs. Spetznaz.

It's a pretty silly show, but strangely entertaining. Check it out, if you have the means.

Cheers.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Don't think they show it in the UK. Whats the idea behind it - I'm assuming they haven't actually set some Green Beret's off against Spetsnaz Is it a historical comparison

[kato13]

I think it is an extension of what the history channel did with certain computer models of historical conflicts. They take the standard Nerd or Barroom discussion "Who would win in a fight between X and Y" enter some stats into a computer and then simulate the outcome (I believe in live action). Of course they need filler so they give a dramatized video version of the history, weapons and tactics of both parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadliest_Warrior

Here are the matchups so far
* 3.1 Episode 1: Apache vs Gladiator
* 3.2 Episode 2: Viking vs Samurai
* 3.3 Episode 3: Spartan vs Ninja
* 3.4 Episode 4: Pirate vs Knight
* 3.5 Episode 5: Yakuza vs Mafia
* 3.6 Episode 6: Green Beret vs Spetsnaz
* 3.7 Episode 7: Shaolin Monk vs Māori
* 3.8 Episode 8: William Wallace vs Shaka Zulu
* 3.9 Episode 9: IRA vs Taliban

I did not think I would have much interest in watching until I saw the "Shaolin Monk vs Māori" and then I imagined myself being totally on one side of that argument. Might be intrigued enough to watch that one.

The IRA/Taliban one seems to me to be in bad taste.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Have to agree there, the IRA/Taliban one wouldn't be something I'd watch. Unless of course they were really going to stick Provies and Taliban in a room and make them go at each other for real - that could be interesting.

[Targan]

I did not think I would have much interest in watching until I saw the "Shaolin Monk vs Māori" and then I imagined myself being totally on one side of that argument. Might be intrigued enough to watch that one.

Interesting. Having some knowledge of martial arts my logical brain would back the monks but being a New Zealander (and having known many Maori) my heart would back the Maori. Also, once the Maori were introduced to firearms they embraced the the idea enthusiastically. What did the program conclude

[kato13]

I don't think it has aired yet.

I expected the Maori would have some sentimental backers here. I must state that my backing of the monks is also a bit sentimental. I used to jokingly chastize my mom for not abandoning me at the door or a Shao-lin temple when I was young (like Caine from Kung-Fu). Her respone was always "trust me if I could have found one you would be there"

[headquarters]

haha

I don't think it has aired yet.

I expected the Maori would have some sentimental backers here. I must state that my backing of the monks is also a bit sentimental. I used to jokingly chastize my mom for not abandoning me at the door or a Shao-lin temple when I was young. Her respone was always "trust me if I could have found one you would be there"

lol

[Canadian Army]

Green Beret vs. Spetznaz

I saw the Green Beret vs. Spetznaz episode, the Spetsnaz was Overall Winner, but what was cool is that they compared their weapons:

Beretta Pistol vs. Makarov Pistol
Mossberg Shotgun vs. Saiga Shotgun
M4A1 Carbine vs. AK74 Carbine
M24 Rifle vs. Dragunov Rifle
E-Tool vs. Ballistic Knife
M67 Grenade vs. RGD-5 Grenade

You got to see what these weapons would do to actual person, in exit wound, blunt force trauma, and broken bones. During the E-Tool demonstration, the Green Beret team oesliced and dice the dummys stomach and head to pieces.

Also I think Episode 9: IRA vs Taliban will be interesting to see.

[TiggerCCW UK]

Also I think Episode 9: IRA vs Taliban will be interesting to see.

Not for me thanks, I'm already far too familiar with the effects of the Provies weapons.

[Raellus]

Yeah, I'm not cool with profiling terrorist's weapons & tactics.

The way the "experts" determine the victors seems pretty unscientific at times. Usually, it's really just a comparison of weapons and the deadlier weapon suite wins the contest. For example, Pirates vs. Knights concluded that Pirates were the deadliest warrior. I'm sorry, but you can't tell me a common criminal who picks on the weak is a superior warrior to a warrior who starts learning his trade as a boy and engages other warriors in ritual and actual combat on a regular basis. It all boiled down to the pirate's gunpowder weapons. So, in effect, the show's usually about the weapons instead of the warrior. It really should be called "Deadliest Weapons".

Anyway, last night's Spetznaz vs. Green Beret bucked the show's conventions by testing not only the weapons, but the warriors themselves. In the Makarov vs. M-9 Beretta contest, the Green Beret's one missed target pretty much sealed the win for the Spetznaz. By all accounts, the Beretta is superior to the Makarov.

Also, the Green Beret's E-tool split a human skull in half cross-wise but the judges gave the win to the Spetznaz's ballistic knife. Really

The show makes lots of little errors. The AK-74 "carbine" they tested was obviously a full-sized AKM with a folding stock, as opposed to a real AKS-74U. In the Yakuza vs. Mafia episode, they repeatedly showed a Luger but kept labelling it as a Walther P-38.

For the various reasons cited above, it's hard to take the show seriously, but it's still pretty cool to see what the weapons can do to ballistic gel torsos (with real human skeletons) and pig carcasses.

I enjoyed last night's episode. I found the grenade test to be particularly interesting. Movies always overblow grenade effects. It was cool to see real footage of what real grenades can do.

[Matt Wiser]

That was my view as well; one missed shot and the "experts" judged the Makarov as superior to the M-9. And that business with the spring-loaded knife...a regular fighting knife, yes, but that One got the impression that the producers of the show had read too much of Viktor Suvorov's book on the Spetsnatz. Now, seeing two terrorist groups decide to take each other out of the gene pool would be interesting to see....

[Legbreaker]

That was my first thought when I read the concept of the show - it's just silly to try comparing warriors from different parts of the world and even sillier to compare them from different times.

How can you possibly put up a Spartan against a Ninja for example The Spartan, while highly trained, carried bronze age weaponry and used tactics that had no relevance whatsoever to the more modern ninja. I think it's easy to see who's the "winner" between them.

If the show is ever shown here in Australia, I'll be sure to give it a very wide berth.

[weswood]

Yeah, I'm not cool with profiling terrorist's weapons & tactics.

The way the "experts" determine the victors seems pretty unscientific at times. Usually, it's really just a comparison of weapons and the deadlier weapon suite wins the contest. For example, Pirates vs. Knights concluded that Pirates were the deadliest warrior. I'm sorry, but you can't tell me a common criminal who picks on the weak is a superior warrior to a warrior who starts learning his trade as a boy and engages other warriors in ritual and actual combat on a regular basis. It all boiled down to the pirate's gunpowder weapons. So, in effect, the show's usually about the weapons instead of the warrior. It really should be called "Deadliest Weapons".

Anyway, last night's Spetznaz vs. Green Beret bucked the show's conventions by testing not only the weapons, but the warriors themselves. In the Makarov vs. M-9 Beretta contest, the Green Beret's one missed target pretty much sealed the win for the Spetznaz. By all accounts, the Beretta is superior to the Makarov.

Also, the Green Beret's E-tool split a human skull in half cross-wise but the judges gave the win to the Spetznaz's ballistic knife. Really

The show makes lots of little errors. The AK-74 "carbine" they tested was obviously a full-sized AKM with a folding stock, as opposed to a real AKS-74U. In the Yakuza vs. Mafia episode, they repeatedly showed a Luger but kept labelling it as a Walther P-38.

For the various reasons cited above, it's hard to take the show seriously, but it's still pretty cool to see what the weapons can do to ballistic gel torsos (with real human skeletons) and pig carcasses.

I enjoyed last night's episode. I found the grenade test to be particularly interesting. Movies always overblow grenade effects. It was cool to see real footage of what real grenades can do.

I had the same issues with the show. Plus some of thier tests to determine overall superiority of weapons aren't always equal. Such as the ballistic knife vs an Etool. Totally different weapons. I have to admit though, those damn Spetznaz were good.

[pmulcahy11b]

Maybe we should call the show The Dudliest Warrior

[Raellus]

How can you possibly put up a Spartan against a Ninja for example The Spartan, while highly trained, carried bronze age weaponry and used tactics that had no relevance whatsoever to the more modern ninja. I think it's easy to see who's the "winner" between them.

The one bit of the show I actually like is the actually weapons testing. Some of the results have surprised me. For example, the Katana, arguably the best edged weapon ever produced by man, was unable to slash through either the Viking's iron ring mail or the Spartan's bronze shield.

The Spartan was declared the winner on the basis of his head to foot bronze armor (including the shield). That said, I'm still not sure I agree with their overall assessment.

I guess the Spetznaz may actually be better pure fighters than the Green Berets, but it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. Although occasionally tasked with direct action missions, the GB's primary role is to train indigenous troops in counter insurgency warfare. As the operators on the show kept saying, they fight as much with their minds as they do with their bodies. The Spetznaz, at least as exemplified on the show, ...not so much.

A more apt comparison would have been Spetznaz vs. Navy SEALs or Operational Detachment Delta or SAS.

From what I've gleaned here and there, the Spetznaz's combat history has been anything but exemplary. Are there any good, accurate accounts of their operations out there