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  • List of European Nuke Strikes?

    I was wondering... are there any lists or maps showing the European nuke strikes
    Fuck being a hero. Do you know what you get for being a hero? Nothing! You get shot at. You get a little pat on the back, blah blah blah, attaboy! You get divorced... Your wife can't remember your last name, your kids don't want to talk to you... You get to eat a lot of meals by yourself. Trust me kid, nobody wants to be that guy. I do this because there is nobody else to do it right now. Believe me if there was somebody else to do it, I would let them do it. There's not, so I'm doing it.

  • #2
    I've never seen one anywhere.
    Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United Kingdom

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    • #3
      I don't recall seeing any definitive Target List for mainland Europe. There was very fine line between the tactical exchange on military targets and the targeting of rear area strategic targets with tactical nuclear warheads. This of course morphed into a full strategic nuclear exchange using long range ballistic weapons with yields near or above the megaton range.

      To compile any sort of list, one would have to read all of the European based source material to get information directly from the text. This would be very time consuming and almost certainly reveal at least some contradictions. Many of the references of nuclear strike locations within the various modules seemed to be plot driven, though there is often a direct connection to a past military campaign in the area. Unfortunately, there was never an in depth military history of the war that covered all of the major operations and campaigns.

      We might be able to work up a decent Target List for France, Belgium, Mexico and a few other neutrals based upon known oil facilities and important strategic targets.

      Benjamin

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      • #4
        The map that came with the v.1 boxed set and the similar map that came with Going Home showed the cities that had been nuked (although some could have been reduced to rubble in other ways). As Benjamin says, it would be time consuming to transcribe them all. As a GM I try to keep detailed notes of randomly generated radiated areas that were tac nuke targets.
        sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Targan
          The map that came with the v.1 boxed set and the similar map that came with Going Home showed the cities that had been nuked (although some could have been reduced to rubble in other ways). As Benjamin says, it would be time consuming to transcribe them all. As a GM I try to keep detailed notes of randomly generated radiated areas that were tac nuke targets.
          Thanks for reminding me of this Targan.

          I finally got a chance to look at these maps. Cities listed in Parentheses are show as rubble. Given the extent of devastation present on the maps I am going to assume that these are tac nukes.

          As for being time consuming I just mapped out 520 canon units so the Strikes will be no problem.

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          • #6
            Here are the 88 cities listed as rubble on the 2 maps GDW provided (From The Basic Rules and Going Home Module)

            Brest, Belarus
            Grodno , Belarus
            Antwerpen, Belgium
            Gent, Belgium
            Prague , Czech
            Ostrava, Czech Republic
            Lille, France
            Berlin, Germany
            Bonn, Germany
            Borchum, Germany
            Bremen, Germany
            Dortmund, Germany
            Dresden, Germany
            Duisburg, Germany
            Dusseldorf, Germany
            Emmerich, Germany
            Erfurt, Germany
            Essen, Germany
            Frankfurt an Oder, Germany
            Gara, Germany
            Gorlitz, Germany
            Gotha, Germany
            Hagen, Germany
            Hamburg, Germany
            Hannover, Germany
            Honnef, Germany
            Jena, Germany
            Karl-Marx-Stadt, Germany
            Kiel, Germany
            Koln, Germany
            Leipzig, Germany
            Lubeck, Germany
            Mulheim, Germany
            Munchen Gladbach, Germany
            Operhausen, Germany
            Rees, Germany
            Remagen, Germany
            Siegen, Germany
            Wesel, Germany
            Wuppertal, Germany
            Zwickau, Germany
            Alphen ad Rijn, Netherlands
            Amsterdam , Netherlands
            Breskens, Netherlands
            Delft, Netherlands
            Dordrecht, Netherlands
            Elten, Netherlands
            Gorinchem, Netherlands
            Gouda, Netherlands
            Haarlem, Netherlands
            Hoek van Holland, Netherlands
            Katwijk aan Zee, Netherlands
            Leiden, Netherlands
            Middelharris, Netherlands
            Rotterdam, Netherlands
            s Gravenhage, Netherlands
            Terneuzen, Netherlands
            Utrecht, Netherlands
            Vllssingen, Netherlands
            Zevenaar, Netherlands
            Bialystok, Poland
            Bydgoszcz, Poland
            Bytom, Poland
            Chorzow, Poland
            Czestochowa, Poland
            Elblag, Poland
            Gdansk, Poland
            Gilwice, Poland
            Gorzow Wielkop, Poland
            Jelenia Gora, Poland
            Katowice, Poland
            Kielce, Poland
            Loniza, Poland
            Olsztyn, Poland
            Opole, Poland
            Poznan, Poland
            Przemysl, Poland
            Radom, Poland
            Sosnowiec, Poland
            Stargard, Poland
            Szczecin, Poland
            Tarnow, Poland
            Warsaw, Poland
            Wloclawek, Poland
            Wroclaw, Poland
            Zabrze, Poland
            Kovel , Ukraine
            Lviv, Ukraine


            Here are Canon strikes I received from Chico (thanks again)

            Bytom, Poland (Black Madonna)
            Chorzow, Poland (BM)
            Czestokowa, Poland (BM)
            Gliwice, Poland (BM))
            Katowice, Poland (BM)
            Nowa Huta, Poland (Free City)
            Radom, Poland
            Sosnowiec, Poland (BM)
            Tarnow, Poland (Soviet Vehicle Guide)
            Warsaw, Poland

            This makes me think it is going to be a pretty good match. I will however remove several cities on the Rhine which are listed as rubble. The devastation on the Rhine is total, and I don't think the Soviets would have concentrated on those areas (neglecting others). I believe most of the devastation is due to the conflict with the French which I believe did not have any nukes involved. Though if a city has a large refinery I will still probably nuke it.

            Comment


            • #7
              I reviewed the list given by Kato (taken from basic rules) and disagreed on a few cities. I also found that several were missed. As a result, I tried to complete this list and give it country by country. I left UK aside (as I like the target listed in the game) and I didnt cover Scandinavia as I consider that it might not have been targeted at all. I also considered that very little city strike hit south-eastern Europe except for one on Ankara (Turkey). However, a number of tactical strikes were registered on the battlefields.

              Baltic states region:
              - Kaliningrad.

              Belarus:
              - Brest-Litovsk (Brest)
              - Grodno
              - Minsk

              Ukraine:
              - Cerkassy
              - Lvov (Lviv)
              - Kovel
              - Kiev
              - Odessa

              Poland: report to Katos list.

              Czech Republic: report to Katos list.

              Germany: report to Katos list.
              However, I disagree with Kato on one thing, I considered the Rhineland to be levelled and even add several among the cities that are geographically closed.(such as Frankfurt on Mainz)

              Netherlands: entirely agree (poor Dutch).

              Belgium: (No reason to bomb Ghent, that is a non-sense)
              - Antwerpen
              - Ostende
              - Brussel

              France:
              - Lille (several hit on Calais, Cambrai, Denain, Dunkirk, Lille and Valencienne).
              - Strasburg
              - Le Havre
              - Brest
              - Lorient (nuclear sub base)
              - Toulouse (aircraft and space industries)
              I consider that Lyon and Marseille survived leaving two major refineries intact.

              Italy:
              - Torino
              - Milano
              - Bologna
              - Napoli
              - Tarento

              Portugal
              - Lissabon
              - Porto (the city survived but the northern area was nuked because of the refinery there)

              Spain
              - Barcelona
              - Bilbao
              - Madrid
              - Zaragossa
              - Valencia
              - Cadiz

              Italy, Portugal and Spain were not primary targets but I consider that their industrial centers were hit.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mohoender
                I reviewed the list given by Kato (taken from basic rules) and disagreed on a few cities. I also found that several were missed.
                I believe his are cannon listed hits.

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                • #9
                  Yeah My hits are canon hits but I will map any list someone works out. Mohoender we will have to discuss the warhead size for your strike targets in addition to your OOBs.

                  Wasn't sure if you have seen my maps (ok now I am sure as I checked the server logs) but this is what I am going for. (These are all canon listed strikes)

                  Map of CONUS Nuke strikes.
                  Map of Canadian Nuclear Targets
                  Map of USSR nuclear strikes.
                  Map of British Nuclear Targets


                  A few USSR hits are wrong (because I listened to Google over Chico Doh!). If you have any questions of want an excel file of the hits let me know.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fusilier
                    I believe his are cannon listed hits.
                    I understood that. I was not saying that I disagreed with Kato. I disagree with cannon. Nevertheless, the level of disagreement is not that high.

                    A point with which I disagree almost entirely, however, are the Kt/Mt level given per cannon. But, from memory (and according to informations available at the time) they make sense.

                    When you look at the USA, for exemple, it feels strange when you know what ICBM/SLBM were available to soviet union:

                    about 30 SS-24 Scalpel (10x550kt MIRV). (not retired)

                    150 SS-17 Spanker (4x550kt MIRV or 750kt single warhead). (retired in 1994)

                    200-300 SS-18 Satan (20-25Mt single warhead or 10x550kt MIRV). (not entirely retired or replaced by Mod.5). The 20-25Mt warheads were targeted at US ICBM base and hardened commands.

                    about 50 SS-13 Savage (750kt single warhead). (retired in 1995)

                    250-300 SS-25 Sickle (550kt single warhead). (not retired)

                    SS-N-6 Serb on Yankee I (possibly 1MT but more probably 3x200kt MIRV) (retired in 1994)

                    250-300 SS-N-8 Sawfly on Delta I and II (1MT single warhead). (not retired but reduced in number)

                    200-250 SS-N-18 Stingray on Delta III (400kt single warhead or 7x100kt MIRV). (not retired but reduced in number)

                    120 SS-N-20 sturgeon on Typhoon (10x100kt MIRV). (not retired but reduced in number)

                    This would be for missiles targeting US alone. As a result, I would expect several 20Mt burst to have occured and several target would have been hit by MIRV instead of single warheads. NATO would certainly have used more MIRV and little high power single warhead. Then, I find logical for the french to have retained their SLBM in reserve.

                    In Europe, I would expect SRBM and MRBM not to be withdrawn and to see extensive use toward second level targets (cities of Poland and targets in eastern europe, for exemple) and on the battlefield.

                    These would include

                    for US: MGM-31A Pershing, MGM-31B Pershing II and MGM-52 Lance. Funny how people focussed on the Pershing (200-250 in US and 150-200 in Germany) while 1000 Lance launcher had been deployed (and more than 2000 missiles manufactured).

                    for Russia: SS-23 Spider (127 and 64 launchers). Scud had been retired since the 1970's and replaced by 400 SS-20 Saber. May be 60 SS-4 sandal (unsure).

                    for France: Pluton (109 and 70 launchers). Actually these would have been replaced by Hads prior to the war. 18 SSBS S-3 on the Albion Plateau.

                    You can expect several of the french Pluton/Hads to have been launched on Germany and Netherlands.

                    At last you can add the cruise missiles (but several will not be equipped with nukes).
                    for US: about 1500.
                    for the soviets: about 1500.

                    In addition France would use the ASMP (on Mirage IV, Mirage 2000 and Super Etendard).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For Europe, canon hits aren't everything. There will be small tactical nuke hits as well, where nukes were used against enemy units, airfields, and smaller naval bases or to deny areas to the enemy. There will the remains of backpack-type nukes that were used to take out division or corps HQ (or higher) units, dams, large ammunition storage facilities, and other small but high-value targets.
                      I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                      Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pmulcahy11b
                        For Europe, canon hits aren't everything. There will be small tactical nuke hits as well, where nukes were used against enemy units, airfields, and smaller naval bases or to deny areas to the enemy. There will the remains of backpack-type nukes that were used to take out division or corps HQ (or higher) units, dams, large ammunition storage facilities, and other small but high-value targets.
                        Yeah those are going to be hard to nail down.

                        Currently I have the following mapped
                        T2k Canon
                        Morrow Project Expanded

                        I plan to map the following
                        Mohoender Expanded List
                        DC Groups
                        Morrow Project Canon

                        As I have said before I am willing to map any list someone gives me and my mapping software can support as many options as I am exposed to. Realistically this is currently limited to about 25 options from a restriction on display size, but I can code around that if necessary.
                        Last edited by kato13; 06-28-2009, 06:37 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Target list from Nordic sourcebook.

                          Norway

                          Oslo 1 Mt Political and industrial center.
                          Tromso 100 kt Naval base. Town destroyed.
                          Drammen 100 kt ground burst Petroleum industry. Town destroyed
                          Harstad 100 kt naval base. Town destroyd.
                          Bergen 100 kt naval base and harbour.
                          Stavanger 100 kt petroleum industry.
                          Horten 100 kt naval base.

                          Northern Norway badly damaged from tactical nukes and conventional warfare.

                          Sweden

                          Karlskoga 2 X 50 kt Defense industry. Town destroyed.
                          Nyn$shamn 20 kt Petroleum industry
                          Malm 20 kt Petroleum industry and harbour.
                          Lingkping 50 kt Aircraft industry. Town destroyed.
                          Gteborg 50 kt. Missile didnt hit targeted oil refinery. Minimal civilian casualties.

                          Stockholm City Badly damaged by Great fire of Stockholm in 1997. Reconstruction have been difficult because area is near frontline. (Swedish civil war.)

                          Finland

                          Helsinki 10 kt. Santahamina military base and petroleum industry area. Second cruise missile heading to downtown was shot down by airforce. In 2001 Helsinki area (including Vantaa and Espoo) is not under government control.
                          Upinniemi naval base 10 kt.
                          Naantali 50 kt Oil refinery and Pansio naval base. Firestorm destroyed large parts of Turku and Naantali.
                          Porvoo 10 kt Oil refinery. Town badly damaged in firestorm.

                          Iceland

                          Keflavik 100 kt airbase.

                          Denmark

                          Copenhagen destroyed by conventional bombing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trooper
                            Target list from Nordic sourcebook.

                            Norway

                            Oslo 1 Mt Political and industrial center.
                            Tromso 100 kt Naval base. Town destroyed.
                            Drammen 100 kt ground burst Petroleum industry. Town destroyed
                            Harstad 100 kt naval base. Town destroyd.
                            Bergen 100 kt naval base and harbour.
                            Stavanger 100 kt petroleum industry.
                            Horten 100 kt naval base.

                            Northern Norway badly damaged from tactical nukes and conventional warfare.

                            Sweden

                            Karlskoga 2 X 50 kt Defense industry. Town destroyed.
                            Nyn$shamn 20 kt Petroleum industry
                            Malm 20 kt Petroleum industry and harbour.
                            Lingkping 50 kt Aircraft industry. Town destroyed.
                            Gteborg 50 kt. Missile didnt hit targeted oil refinery. Minimal civilian casualties.

                            Stockholm City Badly damaged by Great fire of Stockholm in 1997. Reconstruction have been difficult because area is near frontline. (Swedish civil war.)

                            Finland

                            Helsinki 10 kt. Santahamina military base and petroleum industry area. Second cruise missile heading to downtown was shot down by airforce. In 2001 Helsinki area (including Vantaa and Espoo) is not under government control.
                            Upinniemi naval base 10 kt.
                            Naantali 50 kt Oil refinery and Pansio naval base. Firestorm destroyed large parts of Turku and Naantali.
                            Porvoo 10 kt Oil refinery. Town badly damaged in firestorm.

                            Iceland

                            Keflavik 100 kt airbase.

                            Denmark

                            Copenhagen destroyed by conventional bombing.
                            Nice. Thanks.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trooper
                              Target list from Nordic sourcebook.
                              I do appreciate the info -- but where did you get the Nordic Sourcebook, and has it been translated into English by anyone yet
                              I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

                              Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

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