Poland After OMEGA

[Adm.Lee]

France & Poland is very much a natural alliance. Any country that can be used to divert the Germans is an ally for whoever is a neighbor of Germany, it seems.
I can very easily see French influence appearing early on in Poland's recovery from the Twilight War.

Last night, I went looking at Going Home again. I saw about 10 centers for Poland to start organizing around. Up north, the American-Canadian enclave is very near several Polish units that have left the Pact in favor of the Polish Free Congress in Pila-- whatever that is. The PFC sounds like a pro-NATO, or at least anti-Soviet organization, I suspect CIA/DIA backing for it. Since there is nothing in the OMEGA OpOrder that implied it was pro-US, I wonder if it's instead supported by the French Pila's one of the biggest un-destroyed cities around, too.
Major clusters of Soviets remaining, at least through the 2000-01 winter: around Lodz, Poznan, Torun, Lublin and western Silesia. I wonder if the Russified civilian population of Kalinigrad should count, too.
In addition to Krakow and Silesia, there is also an independent Polish group around Gdynia, the Warsaw militias, and the Black Baron between Bialystok and Warsaw. {Of course, we all know what happens to him!}

So, I rather like the Etranger summary-- several small forces coalesce into fewer groups, and eventually the two biggest ones fight it out, until the French step in and help them end it. Much like Germany, except the French work hard to make sure they stay divided.
My only quibble might be that the British might want to try to gain influence with one or another faction, as well. I guess they lost that one to the French. The Swedes and eastern German successor states might like to have friends there, too.

For a game, I'd like to get into a spy-like game using White Eagle, there's just so much to work with in there. If a ref could really play King Julian, that would be fantastic, he is a central figure to the region, given his power, ambition and personality. While knocking him off would be a task, setting things up so that the region doesn't lose the organization he stamped on it and fall further into anarchy is the bigger job. I could see a group of PCs working for any number of outside intel. agencies getting into that. Or mercenaries who couldn't be entirely sure about who they are working for at all!

[Raellus]

Prompted by your post, Admiral, I too took another look at Going Home. There is certainly a lot to work with there.

I'm tentatively planning on mapping out all of the units listed as being on Polish soil in Going Home, as well as a key indicated each unit's "loyalty" status. When it's done, I'll make sure to post it here.

I'm in favor of the idea of French meddling... er... "involvement" in post-war Poland, although "post-war" may be a bit of a misnomer. I wonder if Twilight War would be an appropriate title since, by 2000, WWIII would have entered into a new lower-intensity phase, but one which nevertheless promises much more fighting to come.

The Poland of the winter of 2000-2001 is indeed a Balkanized mess and byzantine intrigues no doubt will abound there for some time.

My question is how could/would the French get their agents, supplies, covert-action teams, diplomats, etc. to Poland in late 2000 and thereafter Crossing Germany by land and/or would be dangerous and provocative to say the least. By boat would be hazardous as well (mines, pirates, the last few vessels of the NATO and Soviet navies). A southern route from the Med would be long and perilous as well.

I see northern Poland as being the best option for the seat of a new Polish state because of the many Polish army units in that region. However, one would have to somehow tie them all back together and give them a unified purpose. This could make for an intriguing T2K campaign focussing on diplomacy.

[Fusilier]

I wonder if Twilight War would be an appropriate.

I believe the 2300 continuation of the Twilight2000 timeline refers to the period from 2002 to many years on as the 'Contrail War'. Just another option.

[Adm.Lee]

Prompted by your post, Admiral, I too took another look at Going Home. There is certainly a lot to work with there.

I'm tentatively planning on mapping out all of the units listed as being on Polish soil in Going Home, as well as a key indicated each unit's "loyalty" status. When it's done, I'll make sure to post it here.

My question is how could/would the French get their agents, supplies, covert-action teams, diplomats, etc. to Poland in late 2000 and thereafter Crossing Germany by land and/or would be dangerous and provocative to say the least. By boat would be hazardous as well (mines, pirates, the last few vessels of the NATO and Soviet navies). A southern route from the Med would be long and perilous as well.

I see northern Poland as being the best option for the seat of a new Polish state because of the many Polish army units in that region. However, one would have to somehow tie them all back together and give them a unified purpose. This could make for an intriguing T2K campaign focussing on diplomacy.

I could see the French using their mostly-intact merchant marine and navy to insert their agents and aid across the Baltic. I think they should be able to suppress or scare off any pirates without a sweat. {If they really wanted to, I suspect they could airlift stuff-- how are the Germans going to stop them} If the Danes and Swedes object to French ships transiting their straits, the French have carrots & sticks to use-- technical assistance with rebuilding or naval threats. Sweden should still have its population, army and navy, but I can't see them wanting to pick a fight with the last European power.
Were I the Danes, and the French came through and offered to help rebuild & repair power stations and shipping, I'd take 'em up on it.

[Abbott Shaull]

Polish Free Congress in Pila-- whatever that is. The PFC sounds like a pro-NATO, or at least anti-Soviet organization, I suspect CIA/DIA backing for it.

I think this is in some form of the Polish Government in Exile that moved from London to physically inside Poland during the war. It is pro-NATO with help from largely the DIA.

Since there is nothing in the OMEGA OpOrder that implied it was pro-US, I wonder if it's instead supported by the French Pila's one of the biggest un-destroyed cities around, too.

French weren't getting involved directly in Poland. They had agents there, I think I recall one operating in Krakow, but for a large part they were observers who would hire guns if they believe they could keep the French from appearing take one side over the other. The City of Pila size is one of the many reasons why Polish Free Congress has set up shop there.

Major clusters of Soviets remaining, at least through the 2000-01 winter: around Lodz, Poznan, Torun, Lublin and western Silesia. I wonder if the Russified civilian population of Kalinigrad should count, too.

I think many of these locations the Soviet units would stay put to reinforce the local militia or attempt to head home themselves. Many in the Soviet senior officers have had enough of the war. The few units who would want to continue the war would be in the minority by this point. Even the basic grunt knows that the enemy is 10 feet tall and is in as bad shape or worse than they are currently. As for Kalinigrad, this town is up for grabs, I can see where poles would try to claim it, or the Germans.

In addition to Krakow and Silesia, there is also an independent Polish group around Gdynia, the Warsaw militias, and the Black Baron between Bialystok and Warsaw. {Of course, we all know what happens to him!}

These are the areas where the remains of the Soviet KGB and GRU, along with intelligence services from every other country including Isreal. I wrote somewhere else it was the French agent in Krakow, but now I suddenly remember her being Isreal agent. All of these places will have agents from all over Europe trying to move these pockets in hope of them gaining full control of Poland and future ally.

[Adm.Lee]

Abbott: I think you are remembering the Israeli agent in Krakow. I can't recall any French operatives in any module. What I am proposing is that French agents should be slipping in soon after the OMEGA evacuation. At the very least, they should be trying to find out what is going on there. Ditto for the Germans, really.

[headquarters]

I thought bubonic plague was still around

At the risk of getting us OT, the Black Death of the mid-14th century was no "simple" disease. Most modern scholars believe it was actually two diseases, Bubonic Plague and, later, the much more deadly Pneumonic Plague. Some people have postulated that it was actually neither but instead a hemoragic fever of some sort, much like Ebola.

Furthermore, medieval folks had no idea what caused it, maving prevention and treatment alomst impossible.

didnt it pop its head up a few years back with a few isolated cases in Asia somewhere I was led to belive that the diesease still lives on in vermin in Central Asia.

[pmulcahy11b]

didnt it pop its head up a few years back with a few isolated cases in Asia somewhere I was led to belive that the diesease still lives on in vermin in Central Asia.

That's true, and it does periodically still pop up in southeast Asia. Some 200 US troops contracted bubonic plague during the Vietnam War before some numbskull at the Petagon finally figured out that we need to be vaccinating our troops against the Plague. Some 20 Americans every year get the plague every year because they let their cats run around outside, then come in the house -- Kitty's outside hunting, catches rats that have the fleas carrying plague, and then bring the fleas into their owners' houses. Think about all the stray kitties that little kids will pick up after the Twilight War...

[Raellus]

didnt it pop its head up a few years back with a few isolated cases in Asia somewhere I was led to belive that the diesease still lives on in vermin in Central Asia.

It still pops up all over the world from time to time. A park ranger at the Grand Canyon in northern Arizona died from bubonic plague a couple of years ago. He apparently caught it from a dead mountain lion.

[Raellus]

Back on topic, I'm putting together a map of unit locations in Poland during the winter of 2000-2001.

The U.S. XI Corps controls a good chunk of NW Poland. Not far from this enclave is the town of Pila, listed as the seat of the "Polish Free Congress". This PFC controls a couple of Polish military units, including a fairly powerful MRD.

AKAIK, the PFC is not described in detail anywhere. Due to its physical proximity to XI Corps' redoubt, I think its fairly safe to assume that a cooperative relationship between the two entities (i.e. that it is pro-western/anti-Soviet).

Did I miss something. Do any of you know of any canonical references to this PFC

[Legbreaker]

Back OT, I'm putting together a map of unit locations in Poland during the winter of 2000-2001.

I did this very exercise about a week or two ago on paper, at least as far as they'd gotten by October - November. I'll email it to you when I get a chance.
Most units are shown to be in almost the same locations as at 01JUL00. Taking it a bit further, those units mentioned in the Return series are shown to have moved very little - no more than about 100km.
By November I would think most units not already in cantonments would be looking around seriously for somewhere to shelter over winter. Any move would likely have to wait until spring 2001.

[Raellus]

I did this very exercise about a week or two ago on paper, at least as far as they'd gotten by October - November. I'll email it to you when I get a chance.
Most units are shown to be in almost the same locations as at 01JUL00. Taking it a bit further, those units mentioned in the Return series are shown to have moved very little - no more than about 100km.
By November I would think most units not already in cantonments would be looking around seriously for somewhere to shelter over winter. Any move would likely have to wait until spring 2001.

True, regarding unit locations. My map will also include unit "loyalty" info as well. What has changed by winter 2000 is that many units are either no longer accepting orders from higher HQ or are still loyal but unwilling to take offensive action. A few seem to have hunkered down with plans to become a particular locality's permanent militia.

This info will be helpful in charting out how Poland might look further on down the line.

[Legbreaker]

My focus has been on charting unit loyalties and strengths leading up to summer of 2000. If I can track that and their positions, I can judge what Pact commanders might have thought about the possible offensive options available to them and come up with a plan that might actually have worked (if Nato hadn't jumped first).

[Raellus]

My focus has been on charting unit loyalties and strengths leading up to summer of 2000. If I can track that and their positions, I can judge what Pact commanders might have thought about the possible offensive options available to them and come up with a plan that might actually have worked (if Nato hadn't jumped first).

Cool. My focus is more on Poland after the bulk of the NATO forces pull out.

[Abbott Shaull]

Abbott: I think you are remembering the Israeli agent in Krakow. I can't recall any French operatives in any module. What I am proposing is that French agents should be slipping in soon after the OMEGA evacuation. At the very least, they should be trying to find out what is going on there. Ditto for the Germans, really.

Yeah I realized that after I had written it bit.