Poll - Favorite Assault Rifle

[Grendel]

Preference would actually be a Battle Rifle (specifically the L1A1).

However, if I had to choose an assault rifle for a PC, I'd probably go for the L85 (based on philosophy #1).

Im with you. FN FAL or L1A1 no puny 5.56 here.

[Brother in Arms]

I am kinda of the Maestro of battle rifles so here is my take on what a "battle rifle" vs. an "assault rifle" and is mostly dependent on caliber and conception of purpose/use on the battle field. These are my own definition between the two, both firearms have been used as standard infantry rifles which is where I believe the confusion comes from hopefully this helps in understanding the slight variantion in both types of firearm.

(ASSUALT RIFLE): a rifle that fires an intermediate cartridge, is capable of select fire and is fed by a detachable magazine.

(INTERMEDIATE CATRIDGE): a catridge that is greater in power than a pistol/SMG but less powerful than a full power rifle catrige.

(SELECT FIRE): Capable of Semi-automatic fire as well as full-automatic or mutilple round burst or both. The SELECT meaning the ability to choose one rate of fire or another.

(BATTLE RIFLE): a rifle that fires a full power rifle catridge, maybe select fire and most likely is fed from a detachable magazine.



Hopefully that didn't cause more confusion I will use examples to distinquish the two types of infantry rifles.
ASSAULT RIFLES: AK-47, AKM, AK-74: in calibers 7.62X39mm and 5.45X39mm as mentioned all fire an intermediate round are select fire (Semi-auto or Full Auto) and are fed with detachble box magazines. M16,M16A1,M16A2 all in caliber 5.45X45mm, select fire Semi-Auto or Full-Auto or Semi-Auto and 3 round Burst and are fed with detachable box magazines.

BATTE RIFLES: M1, M14, FAL, G3A3 in Calibers 7.62X63mm, 7.62X51mm. The M1 is Semi-auto Only, the M14, FAL and G3A3 are Select fire capable Semi-auto and Full Auto. The M1 feeds from an 8 round internal clip. The M14 can be fed with 5 round charger clips or fed with a deatchable box magazine. The FAL and G3A3 are fed by detachable box magazines.

Caliber is the easiest distinction, INTERMEDIATE CARTRIDGES are 7.92x33 Kurz, 7.62x39mm, 5.56X45mm, 5.45X39mmm to name a few.

FULL POWER RIFLE CATRIDGES: 7.62X51mm, 7.62X54R are the the most common with 7.92X57, .303 (7.7X56mmR), .30-06 (7.62X63MM) as older but excellent options.

[Sanjuro]

Does that mean the M2 carbine (full-auto version of the M1) was technically an assault rifle

[HorseSoldier]

The M1/M2 carbine is an interesting debate in that respect. The caliber is intermediate between military pistol ammo and full power rifle rounds, so (especially the M2), yes. On the other hand, 30 Carbine is on par with some of the heavier pistol cartridges -- ballistics are similar to 357 Magnum from a rifle barrel for instance. So it could be considered a "heavy SMG."

This is the problem with any sort of typology. As soon as you define categories you immediately have the fringe examples and outliers which are borderline for the categories.

[Brother in Arms]

Horse soldier is correct about broad sweeping definitions of firearms.

M2 carbine in my opinion is a proto-assault rifle in that they don't truly fire an intermediate catridge. I really consider the .30 carbine catridge to be a pistol catridge even though it has not been used in very many pistols (the ruger black hawk and AMT being the most notable). Its on par with .357 magnum as horse soldier said and its sort of like an enlarged SMG.

I would say though there are more firearms that fit these catergories than do not. I think the biggest problem is many people think the 7.62x39mm isn't a intermediate catridge because they compare it to 7.62x51mm. While it the same diameter bullet the catridge of the 7.62x51mm has a lot more capacity for powder and can be fired at much longer ranges and pentrate thru heavier cover. 7.62X39mm is a 300 meter proposition. 7.62X51mm is good out to 800 meters and can be used by a very competent shooter further. I guess range is one way to rank the firearm... .30 carbine can be shot out to 300 meters (on paper) but that is aboslute max most people can't hit a man sized target after that range, at all so it really falls more into the SMG role than Assault rifle I wouldn't want to have to use it much further than 100 meters myself.

Another good firearm that muddles these definitions I set is the SKS rifle. It is what I would consider a battle rifle that fireas an intermediate catridge (LOL) it is a more traditional pattern of rifle than the AK has a low capacity 10 round internal box magazine fed by stripper clips 20" barrel and is not select fire...but it shoots the intermediate 7.62X39mm rifle. It is another design that was attempting to be an assualt rifle but didn't quite make it. Had is been designed slightly earlier it would have been in 7.62X54mmR and been true battle rifle like simonovs earlier attempt the AVS-36 which was actually was select fire and fired 7.62X54mmR. These were used in early in ww2 before Tokarevs SVT-38 and SVT-40 replaced it.

Cheers

[DCausey]

I went with the M-16 series purely out of familiarity with my nation's rifle. I've never fired one yet, but I've examined my friend's M4 and it's a pleasure to hold. We'll go shooting one of these days, I imagine.

[Ronin]

I love the AK47/AKM. Im not ashamed to admit it. I dislike the M-16 family, even though the product is drastically improved, from what it started as. It really boils down to two things for me. Reliability, and hitting power. Nothing beats the reliability, durability, and strength of the AK. Ive just about ever crazy torture test there is with an AK. It always comes through with flying colors. Hell I watched some spetnaz guy load a mag in to a rifle. Set it down Magazine on the ground, and butt on the ground. Then do push ups off of it. Lets see you do that with a 16 But heres the big thing to me Caliber. If you dont have at least .30cal. You dont have enough gun. (By the way that statement, kind of frightens me. As I believe my father would echo it) I mean really 5.56, its a gopher round. Just an ok one at that. Now I know that it been successfully used for about ever now. I just need a little more. And in the end. I own a Romanian SAR1 (Civilian semi-auto AK, I know, I know, people say their junk. But I must have a good one. Shoots sweet, and true.) I love it to death. Bar none my favorite to shoot.

[Legbreaker]

But heres the big thing to me Caliber. If you dont have at least .30cal. You dont have enough gun. (By the way that statement, kind of frightens me. As I believe my father would echo it) I mean really 5.56, its a gopher round. Just an ok one at that. Now I know that it been successfully used for about ever now. I just need a little more.

I hear that!
Got to be at least 7mm (give or take) to give me confidence it's actually going to take down the target without requiring follow up shots.
Circa 5.56 will do it, but what's the point of being able to carry all those extra rounds when you need twice as many to do the job properly

[ArmySGT.]

M16.

If I have to go bone stock Military than an M16A2 AKA the Musket.

However, Stoner's invention really shines in that it is completely modular. In fact one could re-configure a rifle mid mission.

So, I carry an M16 series in M4 Configuration while mounted, from insertion I keep this on until the Patrol base.

At the Patrol base the PL say it is a quick recon and I am the DM.

Drop the magazine, eject the live cartridge, separate the upper receiver from the lower reciever, stow it, remove DM 20" upper with optics, Install upper with silicone wedge if necessary, re-insert magazine.

I would still have the collapsible stock on but, I would go from a patrolling rifle to one that can confirm and engage targets at 800.

Could even change calibers as easily such as going urban with a suppressed .458 SOCCOM with a change of upper, magazines and ammo.

[Legbreaker]

Pulling apart and reconfiguring would have to completely screw up the zero of the weapon....
Even if it had been zeroed before in that config, just the slightly different seating of the parts is likely to throw the zero off a couple of mils.

[ArmySGT.]

Pulling apart and reconfiguring would have to completely screw up the zero of the weapon....
Even if it had been zeroed before in that config, just the slightly different seating of the parts is likely to throw the zero off a couple of mils.

The barrel and the upper receiver are one assembly.

Thereforethe optics and the barrel are one unit. No change of zero for them.

There is the fit between the upper receiver and the lower receiver that could come into play.This slight and there is available a silicone wedge that can be inserted to remove all play.

A SOF unit could have certain M16 lowers "bedded" to matched uppers. However the silicone wedge is more economical and can be applied in the field.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Pulling apart and reconfiguring would have to completely screw up the zero of the weapon....
Even if it had been zeroed before in that config, just the slightly different seating of the parts is likely to throw the zero off a couple of mils.

Actually if the sight is already mounted and zeroed on the upper you will not have this problem. In this case one would leave the sights on the respective uppers.

At least that is the way I did it. Till I got around to getting lowers for almost all of my uppers.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

The barrel and the upper receiver are one assembly.

Thereforethe optics and the barrel are one unit. No change of zero for them.

There is the fit between the upper receiver and the lower receiver that could come into play.This slight and there is available a silicone wedge that can be inserted to remove all play.

A SOF unit could have certain M16 lowers "bedded" to matched uppers. However the silicone wedge is more economical and can be applied in the field.

DOH!!

What he said.

[HorseSoldier]

On the AR, pretty much all the magic happens in the upper receiver, so as long as the sights or optic were pre-zeroed, installation on a lower wouldn't make any real practical difference.

There is the fit between the upper receiver and the lower receiver that could come into play.This slight and there is available a silicone wedge that can be inserted to remove all play.

Beat me to it. Upper to lower fit doesn't matter much at all. Even the accu-wedges are more for the OCD portion of the shooting community than anyone trying to get better performance.

The modularity aspect for the individual Big Army troop isn't that great a strength on the AR/M16/M4 for the simple reason that it isn't used as such -- units just don't have additional specialized uppers, etc. However, I know a lot of SF guys, in some cases entire ODAs, that have deployed with multiple uppers for their M4s, and some guys who used SPR uppers on M4 lowers with pretty good success (trigger is not as good as the one on the issue SPR lower . . . but non-match grade M4 triggers never had an army-wide safety warning about match grade triggers failing on the SPRs).

It makes pretty good sense if you're either doing mounted operations and have extra stowage for spare uppers (starts making much less sense when you've hauling a golf bag of gun parts on your back on a ruckmarch) or if your mission set(s) is/are deliberate enough you can preconfigure your weapons -- going into Fallujah, maybe 12" barrel uppers are preferable, patrolling some wide open stretch of nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan, maybe 18" uppers are better.

That said, the bigger show stopper in my experience is ammunition quality rather than optimizing barrel length. With good ammo (Mk 262) and an ACOG, shooting unknown distance targets out to 600 meters gets boring, and (with the aid of a ballistic computer and spotter making wind call) I've seen a guy make a hit on a steel chest plate out around 1200 meters with a 12" upper. With standard issue green tip, you're probably more consistently in the 3-4 MOA (and realistically, anywhere from probably 1.5-6 MOA, depending on lot), which out at 600 which is pretty much just rolling the dice before you even start worrying about things like wind, bullets going transsonic, and such.

[Ronin]

I hear that!
Got to be at least 7mm (give or take) to give me confidence it's actually going to take down the target without requiring follow up shots.
Circa 5.56 will do it, but what's the point of being able to carry all those extra rounds when you need twice as many to do the job properly

Amen, Leg. Amen.