Sawed off M79

[Legbreaker]

I am with you. Looks kinda bulky. If it is quicker to load from ok. However Bandoliers carry more.

Looks like it's worth trialling anyway. Possibly as a replacement belt mounted ammo pouch...
Looks to be smaller than the 200 round Minimi pouches we were issued, so I'm not seeing bulk as a particularly big issue.

[bobcat]

build me a grenade launcher that takes that as a magazine. then throw together some Merc 2K stats for it.

what i like the idea of a mag fed GL almost as much as the fools in the bulleye building.

[ArmySGT.]

build me a grenade launcher that takes that as a magazine. then throw together some Merc 2K stats for it.

what i like the idea of a mag fed GL almost as much as the fools in the bulleye building.

XM25 Grenade Launcher

In Action

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Please note: I'm not criticising the weapon or it's intended use or it's intended users, I'm criticising the stupidity in the statements made about it.

XM25 Grenade Launcher

In Action

I love the spin (i.e. sensationalist bullshit) reporters put on things and the complete lack of research they do these days and Fox news are some of the best of the worst (and I don't mean that as a compliment)...

"Since the dawn of modern warfare, the best way to stay alive in the face of incoming fire has been to take cover behind a wall. But thanks to a game-changing "revolutionary" rifle, the U.S. Army has made that tactic dead on arrival. Now the enemy can run, but he can't hide."

Yeah I know what they mean, when those pesky badguys hid behind a wall in the past, we were completely screwed! We'd have to "make do" with grenade launchers and mortars or we'd shoot through the wall with machineguns or use a LAW rocket, a passing tank or some other novelty to put a hole in the wall.
Thanks to this "game-changing" rifle I won't have to do that any more... oh, but then again, I'm gonna be screwed if they do the Chechen trick, i.e. hide under fallen rubble and use car jacks to lift the block they're hiding under so they have a firing slit, then drop the rubble when they receive incoming fire

"With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever," Lehner told FoxNews.com on Wednesday. "Tactics are going to have to be rewritten. The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away."

Yeah, that's right, cos nobody will have the ingenuity to figure out a way to protect themselves, oh hang on a second, there's still that Chechen trick... It's foolish to downright irresponsible to teach people that sort of rubbish, that one new toy will give them complete power over the enemy. For every system someone develops, there's someone who makes a counter to the system.

[Schone23666]

Please note: I'm not criticising the weapon or it's intended use or it's intended users, I'm criticising the stupidity in the statements made about it.


I love the spin (i.e. sensationalist bullshit) reporters put on things and the complete lack of research they do these days and Fox news are some of the best of the worst (and I don't mean that as a compliment)...

"Since the dawn of modern warfare, the best way to stay alive in the face of incoming fire has been to take cover behind a wall. But thanks to a game-changing "revolutionary" rifle, the U.S. Army has made that tactic dead on arrival. Now the enemy can run, but he can't hide."

Yeah I know what they mean, when those pesky badguys hid behind a wall in the past, we were completely screwed! We'd have to "make do" with grenade launchers and mortars or we'd shoot through the wall with machineguns or use a LAW rocket, a passing tank or some other novelty to put a hole in the wall.
Thanks to this "game-changing" rifle I won't have to do that any more... oh, but then again, I'm gonna be screwed if they do the Chechen trick, i.e. hide under fallen rubble and use car jacks to lift the block they're hiding under so they have a firing slit, then drop the rubble when they receive incoming fire

"With this weapon system, we take away cover from [enemy targets] forever," Lehner told FoxNews.com on Wednesday. "Tactics are going to have to be rewritten. The only thing we can see [enemies] being able to do is run away."

Yeah, that's right, cos nobody will have the ingenuity to figure out a way to protect themselves, oh hang on a second, there's still that Chechen trick... It's foolish to downright irresponsible to teach people that sort of rubbish, that one new toy will give them complete power over the enemy. For every system someone develops, there's someone who makes a counter to the system.

I barely even watch Fox News anymore....there's only so much bullshit I can digest in 5 minutes, let alone an hour.

With THAT said....I'd be interested to see how this weapon performs. I don't think it's a bad concept at all. It may or may not be a "game changer" as they say, but still looks to have potential. I think it'd be bad idea to just dismiss the whole idea out of hand, but that's just me.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I barely even watch Fox News anymore....there's only so much bullshit I can digest in 5 minutes, let alone an hour.

Hell I'm a conservative and I think FN is bullshit.

This is/was stupid and basically product placement for ATK, nothing else. The aforementioned "lift up rubble with a car jack" trick is SORTA KINDA IMPERVIOUS to some dinky little 20-mm BB round.

Now a GPS locked SDB lofted from a passing F15E Yeah that's more like it.

[ArmySGT.]

Hell I'm a conservative and I think FN is bullshit.

This is/was stupid and basically product placement for ATK, nothing else. The aforementioned "lift up rubble with a car jack" trick is SORTA KINDA IMPERVIOUS to some dinky little 20-mm BB round.

Now a GPS locked SDB lofted from a passing F15E Yeah that's more like it.

Go back and read how it operates again.

[Webstral]

I think sensible people of any stripe are wary of rah-rah press. "We're so awesome!" is a dangerous thing to say and an even more dangerous thing to believe.

[HorseSoldier]

Has the XM25 been demonstrated to have killed anyone in combat yet

On the early combat trials the powers-that-be declared it to be a game changer but the data on the ground was that it hadn't actually helped any Taliban types rendezvous with toe tags. Bad guys broke contact in several firefights involving the -25, but that may have just been scary-new-gun-itis. Until it starts making corpses it isn't getting the job done.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

It may or may not be a "game changer" as they say, but still looks to have potential. I think it'd be bad idea to just dismiss the whole idea out of hand, but that's just me.

As mentioned, I wasn't criticizing the weapon or its intended use. I think it has a lot of potential and probably should be issued as a platoon level support weapon.

Some anecdotal reports from its combat trials in Afghanistan have made their onto Military.com and so far most of them have been very positive

http://www.military.com/news/article/punisher-gives-enemy-no-place-to-hide.html

There's also this report from ArmyTimes

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/02/army-xm25-punisher-battlefield-test-021411w/

[ArmySGT.]

There's also this report from ArmyTimes
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/0...-test-021411w/

^^^From this Article.

n one engagement, an enemy machine gunner was oeso badly wounded or so freaking scared that he dropped [his] weapon and ran, said Lt. Col. Christopher Lehner, Program Manager Individual Weapons.

There were no casualties among units carrying the XM25 in those nine engagements, Lehner said.

oeNo longer can the enemy shoot at American forces, then hide behind something, said Brig. Gen. Peter Fuller of Program Executive Office Soldier. oeThis is a revolutionary weapon. This is a game-changer.

[ArmySGT.]

Thanks to this "game-changing" rifle I won't have to do that any more... oh, but then again, I'm gonna be screwed if they do the Chechen trick, i.e. hide under fallen rubble and use car jacks to lift the block they're hiding under so they have a firing slit, then drop the rubble when they receive incoming fire

Locate target with Thermal viewer. Lase rubble. tap key for minus one meter. set cross hairs on firing slit. Fire round. Round travels distance. Round detonates one meter in front of firing slit. Enemy combatant take grenade fragments to the face.

Enemy combatant engages from hard cover (walled compound).

Lase wall. Tap key for plus one meter. Aim cross hairs on a position enemy combatant is popping up from. Fire round. Round travels distance. Round detonates one meter past wall and directly over combatants head. Combatants takes fragments to the head and torso.

It is a better tool in the tool box. Sure things were made do before, now it can be done better, Day or night.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Locate target with Thermal viewer. Lase rubble. tap key for minus one meter. set cross hairs on firing slit. Fire round. Round travels distance. Round detonates one meter in front of firing slit. Enemy combatant take grenade fragments to the face.

Enemy combatant engages from hard cover (walled compound).

Lase wall. Tap key for plus one meter. Aim cross hairs on a position enemy combatant is popping up from. Fire round. Round travels distance. Round detonates one meter past wall and directly over combatants head. Combatants takes fragments to the head and torso.

It is a better tool in the tool box. Sure things were made do before, now it can be done better, Day or night.

Only works if you actually know where the enemy is - the Chechens didn't show themselves all the time. Instead they'd raise the rubble just enough to allow a firing slit, take the shot then drop the rubble if they thought they were in danger.
Again, I'm not criticizing the weapon or it's intended employment, I was criticizing the way that Fox news reported on it.

[ArmySGT.]

I think it is going to be a game changer. Atleast as far as counter insurgency fighting in Afghanistan goes.

The Taliban are don't dig fighting positions , I have heard. Secondly the don't wear helmets and flak vests.

The opposition is going to have to adapt this time.

Next it forces the Taliban to give up the open country and go primarily urban. Since any wall or open ditch is no longer cover.

Takes away the range advantage. The Allies will be able to reach out to past the effective ranges of PK Machineguns and Enfield rifles.

May not be a "game changer" in a conventional war, but I think it is going to change the game in Afghanistan once deployed in large numbers.

[waiting4something]

After doing little research I was shocked to find out how anemic the buckshot load for the 40 mm is. It's only like 20 #4 buckshot pellets. Your average 12 gauge 2 3/4 shell hold 27 pellets by comparison. I always believed the round had 00 buckshot, but that is not the case. In theory a 12 gauge round is more lethal. I'm not sure about the flechette rounds, but the buckshot load isn't so hot.