Twilight 2013 to end publication in December 2010

[Targan]

Well, poo. This is a bummer. Does this mean I've got to hurry up and get all the sourcebook pdf's I'm lacking before they go away into the ether

I guess the answer is yes.

[kota1342000]

DAMMIT!!!
Well, great job with Twilight 2013. In any case, you've helped keep my favorite game alive and made some interesting updates to the game world. I'm not free of criticism of certain parts of 2013 but overall I'm impressed. If 93 is closing the doors then there's good reasons for it and my only gripe is that it sucks that 93 is going away.

[helbent4]

Group,

I thought I would pass along that DriveThruRPG is bundling most or all the T2013 material. If you have ten bones (USD $10.00) left over from buying Christmas presents, you can have all the necessary material to run Reflex with your T2K game (including Tegyirus' vehicle rules).

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/produc...s_id=64418{1}1

Tony

[Tegyrius]

Actually, I'm not aware of Keith having published the vehicle errata in anything on DriveThru. That's posted in the core book errata thread on 93GS' forums. It's also available in my unpublished manuscript for Driver's Guide: Czech Your Engine, which I've made available for free on my own site.

Still, ten bucks for setting, rules, Everytown, and five Shooter's Guides ain't a bad deal.

- C.

[helbent4]

Actually, I'm not aware of Keith having published the vehicle errata in anything on DriveThru. That's posted in the core book errata thread on 93GS' forums. It's also available in my unpublished manuscript for Driver's Guide: Czech Your Engine, which I've made available for free on my own site.

- C.

Clayton,

Sorry, I meant to link your rules! They are not part of the bundle. Thanks for the correction, my mistake.

Tony

[Jason]

imo the Background sucked so bad I wish I had saved my money. not sad to see it go tbh

The background was flawed, yes, but saying that the background ruined the whole system is just wrong. I will take a superior game system with a crappy background over a crappy system with superior background 8 days a week. I end up modding most background info in whatever games I run, anyway.

The Reflex system is far and away the best small-unit combat rules system I have ever encountered. I suggest that any T2K fan would benefit from reading them.

[helbent4]

The background was flawed, yes, but saying that the background ruined the whole system is just wrong.

Jason,

I'm sure there are people that somehow don't think they're wrong in holding the opposite opinion. (If I may joke, it's good you've finally settled the debate; now we know where we stand we can all get on with our lives!) Either way, if people want to pick up the system to have a look, it's available at a reasonable price.

Tony

[Stich2.0]

Either way, if people want to pick up the system to have a look, it's available at a reasonable price.

Psst... it's also available for free.


Free!

[helbent4]

Psst... it's also available for free.


Free!

Stich,

Sure, now you're going to tell me there's some "magical" way to download movies and music to your computer without paying for it either, using some kind of electronic medium. Heresy!

If you live in Canada, you can download the core rules for free legally (or for that matter, anything else as long as you don't resell it) but not in the USA. When locating pirated copies of T2013 on a file-sharing site, I tend to find that not a lot of the supplemental material is available or conveniently bundled together.

Like many things in life, I could be mistaken!

Tony

[Mohoender]

Late to give an opinion but...

I think that it is sad that T2013 has ceased but I think that some decisions were made by 93 Games Studio that made the success of the game unlikely.

They certainly made some bad choices but we all do. They might have underestimated the task. However, I would advocate that most gamers current attitude made the success unlikely not their initial choices. Too often, we simply want too much people.

1. The game background is weak in places and is quite US centric. The details of the UK made me cringe and I read one comment (from an Australian) when the game was realeased that he suspected that the writers hadn't even looked at Australia on a map! It seemed to me that the game background was written for a US market without any thought to an international market as it plays heavily to US stereotype views of the rest of the world. My instant reaction as a GM therefore was that I would have to rewrite the game background or simply use the system in a different setting.

As it was the case with the initial game. However, I would agree with the idea on the map. However, for my parts, I'm not even sure that most americans even know what a map is (and this is spreading fast to Europeans). After all, while I was studying in US, a US student (senior in international political studies) told me that he whished to drive down to Germany (we were in Vermont!!). Of course, you still can drive through Canada, the Behring strait (provided you are in full winter with enough ice), all of Russia and Poland but that might be tricky... If we didn't have to rewrite T2... backgrounds we wouldn't be here in the first place.

2. There are some flaws in the combat rules (in my opinion) and that put several players I know off the game after an initial session.

Didn't go that far, with two little girls and too little available time, I always found the rules too heavy. I made the same mistake on my own game design and I'm know correcting it. I'll be reducing the character design phase from 50 to 10 pages and the rules from 20 to 4-5. Meanwhile, I'll expend the background section and edit books focused solely on background. The best in this is that it takes a couple of days to write a background while it takes a bunch of months to design the rules.

3. Their business model seems to focus around people purchasing pdf versions rather than actual books in most countries and that seems wrong to me. Most gamers (and the majority of T2k fans) are "older" gamers and are more likely to spend the money for a good quality hardback book (which is what they produced in some markets) rather than a pdf. None of the supplements were ever more than pdfs though (I believe).

When I was saying that we want too much. Without PDF, no RPG design is possible today. I won't do anything else, hard copy is nice but out of reach. Too expensive to make, Too expensive to send, takes too much place in your already full storage room, sending it to stores is also hell. I don't know elsewhere but, currently, in France, you only have two surviving so called rpg editors and these guys are only a bunch of incompetent lying a..h...s

4. They initially focussed on firearms supplements rather than sourcebooks or adventures and when they did release a sourcebook it was for their "Everytown" generic setting rather than the Czech sourcebook Tegyrius developed - http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=2355

Here is a huge mistake, I agree. In the initial exchange I had with smokewolf, he told me that they were going to develop sourcebooks on countries (I'm still waiting for it). When, I saw the sourcebook on firearms I ceased to visit 93gamestudios. I tend not to care about big guns and big guys (but that just me). Not enough on vehicles, planes, ships..., also

It's sad when any game fails but I think that their approach was flawed in the first place.

You too hard on this, I think. You forget one thing, when you put yourself to such a huge task, you have to make choices and assume them. Just too bad that they couldn't change path. Terminating the project is their only bad choice IMO. Put it on hold, make your money and start it all over again.

They seem to be nice guys however so I hope that they do well in the future. They've done more to contribute to the gaming hobby as a whole than I've ever done!

I have suspended my own game for five years (I understand personnal reasons). I restarted the distribution over last summer. The funny part is that I sold more copies in three months that any shop in 7 years. I had the same problem that they had but I'm now working at correcting them and I hope to release a new version in 2011 along with an english version (at last). The point was simple: i needed to make a living first and to organize my life (didn't I said that twice already). I hope that 93gamestudio will be capable of doing something similar. About hard copy, if anyone wants one, no problem, just get your cash ready. It could be sold at 100$ for only 10$ in PDF.

[helbent4]

Mohender,

We should really have a separate thread that goes like, "T2013 sucks! No, T2013 is awesome, YOU suck!"

Like it or not, this is a fan forum primarily for T2K. There is going to be an orientation in that direction from many people, although the list mods like Targan have made it clear that this forum has no real or implied anti-T2013 bias. In fact there's a lot of love for T2013 out there. Many would have been satisfied simply with an update and expansion of the rules if the background was largely unchanged, thus continuing a process stretching from v1 to v2 and v2.2 . I believe I understand some of 93GS's reasons for updating the background, although of course I wasn't party to the decision-making process in the slightest.

Although .pdfs are a boon to small companies like 93GS they do pose a problem in that it's relatively easy to pirate them. One could argue that free/pirated material is really no different than leafing through a book in a game store, and that people who actually want to run or play the game seriously eventually buy the books themselves. There's probably truth to both views, but small game companies simply don't have many cheap options.

Tony

[Tegyrius]

Psst... it's also available for free.


Free!

Oh, very classy.

- C.

[Stich2.0]

Oh, very classy.

- C.

Do you want a copy

[Eddie]

[cavtroop]

Do you want a copy

Hopefully this asshat gets banned soon.