Fiddle's Green

[dragoon500ly]

Paul no matter what we may say. I have the feeling we will be wrong because we could jump out of perfectly flying Air Farce plane with one...lol

Just remember! The Air Force is the only service that rountinely scores 100% on every gunnery exercise....afterall, what ever they drop will hit the ground!

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

Um isn't it Fiddlers Green

[Panther Al]

Yeah, but what do you expect from those 2nd ACR guys, they have always been a little slow...

[bobcat]

Yeah, but what do you expect from those 2nd ACR guys, they have always been a little slow...

hey just because the all criminal regiments never really worried bout that readin and writin stuff. don't mean they were dumb.(most of them did get away with their mischief after all)

[dragoon500ly]

Yeah, but what do you expect from those 2nd ACR guys, they have always been a little slow...

Might be a tad slow, but we always did outgun, outfight, and outdrink the rest of the regiments

[Abbott Shaull]

Tell me about it! To the best of my knowledge, it was only pulled on that one REFORGER with mixed results (gee wonder why). That's why the next move in the troop was to go to four line platoons, two with 6 M3 each and two with 4 M1A1s apiece. This is the configuration that went into Desert Storm.

That is how I figure they were arranged, and ironic close to what Troops was suppose to have...

[bobcat]

honestly 2ACR vs 3ACR i still say the 89 regiment would tear both apart.(though we did steal mainly from 2 and 3 for the initial cadre then grabbed the craziest infantry guys and FO's in the army to round it out. (at least none of my guys ever got caught)

[dragoon500ly]

honestly 2ACR vs 3ACR i still say the 89 regiment would tear both apart.(though we did steal mainly from 2 and 3 for the initial cadre then grabbed the craziest infantry guys and FO's in the army to round it out. (at least none of my guys ever got caught)

Nope, the old Deuce would win, hands down!!!! Even Patton claimed that that his finest cavalry outfit was the 2nd!

[bobcat]

Nope, the old Deuce would win, hands down!!!! Even Patton claimed that that his finest cavalry outfit was the 2nd!

thats cause my regiment only stood up 6 years ago. if Patton were to see the kind of cadre we stole from ya'll and how they trained the younger troops up he'd have been impressed. of course it does take a special kind of crazy to do half of what my unit has done in its short history.

[Abbott Shaull]

thats cause my regiment only stood up 6 years ago. if Patton were to see the kind of cadre we stole from ya'll and how they trained the younger troops up he'd have been impressed. of course it does take a special kind of crazy to do half of what my unit has done in its short history.

Yes with the major reorganization of the Light Infantry/Airborne/Air Assault and the Mech/Armor Brigade to the new Units of Action and later the Modular Brigades. It seems that the new units that have been created out of it really have done well with the limited time they were stood up and expect to be operational in. Considering some units in WWII had years to train before they had to see action...

[Panther Al]

As mentioned earlier, its not the concept of the stryker brigade that I think is a bit silly. It's light, which means in a conventional conflict it has issues. This isn't a bad thing: provided all it is is a few units in a RDF role. When it's the bulk of the army on the other hand, its a different story. Assuming that in a few years that we even have any heavy forces left, it means our army will erode like snow under a fire hose. It is sad that the Iraqi army has more tanks - including well over a hundred brand new M1A1SA's - than it looks like we will in three years at this rate.

But let's look at the concept of a RDF. At heart it is an air transportable unit, high in firepower, meant to be something along the lines of an ablative speedbump, with more staying power than the 82nd airborne. So, it needs armour, it needs firepower, but it needs to be light. Now, off hand the Stryker is all that, and even better -and it is truelly a good thing- all the Strykers have immense parts commonality. They also have to have as light of a logistical tail as possible, as well as the unit on the whole has to have everything it needs, arty, air, intel, engineering, air defense, and MPs.

Sounds a lot like the current organisation of a heavy cavalry regiment, save that while it could be transported by air with some effort, there was plans for this, and that the logistical tail because of the threethousand and one (OK, some exaggeration there) different vehicle types. This, if the Stryker brigade was built on the ACR format would fix that.

But the stryker has flaws, and serious ones in my opinion. For some reason politics got involved and coupled with various pet projects caused it to become immensely complex, with about every bell and whistle they could tuck in. And all that has a weight that could have been used for armour, and reduce the maintenance level (I think in T2K terms it would be at least a 12 if not 16). Not to mention wheels. In a force designed as an offensive, rapid, strike force, this isn't a bad thing. For an RDF designed to hold the line, or to engaged in sustained combat operations it is.

So, what is the right answer

Stay tuned...

[Panther Al]

Part two:

So, what's the Stryker- and its Brigade- good for Well, to be fair, it would be a great National Guard formation. Its cheap - relatively. Its light so the guard units can train freely on civilian streets without ripping them out. And should the crap it the fan, they can be rapidly sent overseas easily, or stood up, if time is available for retraining, on other equipment while maintaining a basic knowledge of armoured fighting.

But if not the Stryker, then what do we use for light (ok, lightish) units, especially in a RDF role

What a RDF needs has been already mentioned, as well as why the Stryker isn't it, though it comes close.

For starters, it needs tracks - they might lose out on road speed, but that's not important enough to cut down its combat durability in exchange by going wheeled. It needs to have vehicles that share as many components between -all- its armoured vehicles as possible, likewise for its un armoured wheeled support vehicles. And it needs to have all the components it needs to operate on its own so it can operate without needing to have another unit helping out. A lone wolf regiment you might say. Replace the CFV's with IFV's and the ACR is perfect formation wise. Just needs a vehicle.

So, an armoured, tracked platform with a max weight of around 30 metric tons. It needs a variant for every use, from heavy gun platform, IFV, TOC, SPM, SPAAG, SPG, and so on and so forth.

Nothing out there meets that, but the CV90 does come very close - all but the SPG is in, or has been in, production- and so did the FCS program the army was forced to drop.

Given that we are stuck with the Stryker, and we seem dead set to trash every heavy combat unit we have - after all, no one out there has hordes of tanks and wants to start a war with anyone right *cough North Korea - Iran - and I'm sure you all can name more...*

So we absolutely need an RDF that can fight - and survive for a while- that the Stryker and its brigade can't.

We won't, or can't, afford to develop a whole new platform, nor do we really have time. There is a turnkey, in production, with development costs already paid for, in the CV90. Maybe the US Army needs to get over its "Not Invented Here" problem and take a serious look at what's going on. We are, as the saying goes, training and equipping for the last war, or at least the one we are in, and already finding out that wheels are not it - as other nations have found out in afghanistan and have started to ship over tracked vehicles, and heavier and heavier at that.

So- what do you all think of all my blithering

[dragoon500ly]

Part two:

So, what's the Stryker- and its Brigade- good for Well, to be fair, it would be a great National Guard formation. Its cheap - relatively. Its light so the guard units can train freely on civilian streets without ripping them out. And should the crap it the fan, they can be rapidly sent overseas easily, or stood up, if time is available for retraining, on other equipment while maintaining a basic knowledge of armoured fighting.

But if not the Stryker, then what do we use for light (ok, lightish) units, especially in a RDF role

What a RDF needs has been already mentioned, as well as why the Stryker isn't it, though it comes close.

For starters, it needs tracks - they might lose out on road speed, but that's not important enough to cut down its combat durability in exchange by going wheeled. It needs to have vehicles that share as many components between -all- its armoured vehicles as possible, likewise for its un armoured wheeled support vehicles. And it needs to have all the components it needs to operate on its own so it can operate without needing to have another unit helping out. A lone wolf regiment you might say. Replace the CFV's with IFV's and the ACR is perfect formation wise. Just needs a vehicle.

So, an armoured, tracked platform with a max weight of around 30 metric tons. It needs a variant for every use, from heavy gun platform, IFV, TOC, SPM, SPAAG, SPG, and so on and so forth.

Nothing out there meets that, but the CV90 does come very close - all but the SPG is in, or has been in, production- and so did the FCS program the army was forced to drop.

Given that we are stuck with the Stryker, and we seem dead set to trash every heavy combat unit we have - after all, no one out there has hordes of tanks and wants to start a war with anyone right *cough North Korea - Iran - and I'm sure you all can name more...*

So we absolutely need an RDF that can fight - and survive for a while- that the Stryker and its brigade can't.

We won't, or can't, afford to develop a whole new platform, nor do we really have time. There is a turnkey, in production, with development costs already paid for, in the CV90. Maybe the US Army needs to get over its "Not Invented Here" problem and take a serious look at what's going on. We are, as the saying goes, training and equipping for the last war, or at least the one we are in, and already finding out that wheels are not it - as other nations have found out in afghanistan and have started to ship over tracked vehicles, and heavier and heavier at that.

So- what do you all think of all my blithering

Well for a 3ACR man...not bad!

I think we both agree that Stryker was a waste of time. I personally feel that if we had to go with wheeled, a modified LAV-25 would have been a better choice. Reequiping the NG infantry battalions to a medium config would have made a lot more sense then deactivating heavy divisions.

Soooo whats the best answer

I feel that the new division concept lacks the capability that the older divisions had for sustained combat. The platoons are smaller, the companies are fewer. There is a lot of talk about the force multiplier of the new electronic systems...but these are new systems that haven't had the time to be fully developed and tested. A lot of the new combat systems have shown serious problems in Afghanistan and Iraq, and yet major changes are being made based on what these systems are supposed to be capable of. I sometimes wonder just how great these new toys will perform in a nuclear environment.

[Panther Al]

Well for a 3ACR man...not bad!

I think we both agree that Stryker was a waste of time. I personally feel that if we had to go with wheeled, a modified LAV-25 would have been a better choice. Reequiping the NG infantry battalions to a medium config would have made a lot more sense then deactivating heavy divisions.

Soooo whats the best answer

I feel that the new division concept lacks the capability that the older divisions had for sustained combat. The platoons are smaller, the companies are fewer. There is a lot of talk about the force multiplier of the new electronic systems...but these are new systems that haven't had the time to be fully developed and tested. A lot of the new combat systems have shown serious problems in Afghanistan and Iraq, and yet major changes are being made based on what these systems are supposed to be capable of. I sometimes wonder just how great these new toys will perform in a nuclear environment.

Thanks- I think...

Its fairly obvious I think that over the years, from a maintenance viewpoint, that the army of today finds itself in the position the German army of 1944 found itself in: their supply chain was still intact yet they had never ending problems because they focused on have the most cutting edge, untested, most mechanically complex, and worse, the most varied stable of armoured vehicles they could have. Sounds like us and we all know how well it worked out for them: the moment the supply chain had issues they had a near impossible time fielding any large amounts of armour on regular basis.

And the sad thing is, the Stryker is based off of the LAV-25. Sure, heavily modified, but they are both MOWAG Piranhas built up in Canada eh And here is the kicker: the Canadians was going to go heavy on the Stryker, until they got to Afghanistan and noted that it wasn't going to fly, so what are they doing Moving heavy tracked vehicles and looking very hard at a new IFV- the CV90.

What's it say for the pentagons pet project when not even a year passed before they found out its no good protection wise, and they invalidated the prime reason they picked it (C130 transportable) by adding more and more armour on the thing

[Panther Al]

On the subject of a nuclear battlefield: the answer is not well at all. One of those little things that has gone un-noticed is that the EMP protection standards are not as stringent as they used to be. Since the military in the 90's started trying to save a buck in procurement (not that I mind really) one of the first things they got onto was a commercial components kick, and it just got worse over the last decade. A lot of the electronics is based off of stuff bought off the shelf, and while that was supposed to save money, it hasn't and and more to the point, commercial stuff isn't shielded at all. When they was installing FBCB2 in our tank I asked about that, the contractors said, "oh sure, some, but we figure it isn't needed anymore so we just let the vehicle provide most of the shielding nowdays."