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  • #91
    Originally posted by dragoon500ly View Post
    There were a lot of US designs and 5-7 foreign designs. But from almost the beginning of the tests, all you heard about was how great the Stryker was.

    In these tests, there is a very high if-its-not invented-here-its-no-good.
    Lee,

    As you no doubt know, the Stryker is based on the Canadian-built LAV III, developed from a licenced version of the Swiss Piranha. So it's a little open as to what "here" means!

    Tony

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    • #92
      Originally posted by helbent4 View Post
      Lee,

      As you no doubt know, the Stryker is based on the Canadian-built LAV III, developed from a licenced version of the Swiss Piranha. So it's a little open as to what "here" means!

      Tony
      Yeah, but there is some more back story. The US Military had kept an eye on the LAV/Piranha line since the early 1980s. When it was tested for both US Army and Marine Corps use as the LAV-25. The only reason the Army didn't buy it then was because the M2/M3s were in their final phase of development and about to deploy. The LAV-25 was adopted by the Marine Corps though.

      It was more of logistical decision that the Army didn't want to focus on two vehicle that in many minds did the same thing as they replaced the M113 and that line of variants. Yes, granted the LAV-25 was suppose to go to help create Medium Force that could move quickly while the M2/M3s were going to Heavy Force units.

      The Medium Force was put on hold for another decade or so...

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Abbott Shaull View Post
        Yeah, but there is some more back story. The US Military had kept an eye on the LAV/Piranha line since the early 1980s. When it was tested for both US Army and Marine Corps use as the LAV-25. The only reason the Army didn't buy it then was because the M2/M3s were in their final phase of development and about to deploy. The LAV-25 was adopted by the Marine Corps though.

        It was more of logistical decision that the Army didn't want to focus on two vehicle that in many minds did the same thing as they replaced the M113 and that line of variants. Yes, granted the LAV-25 was suppose to go to help create Medium Force that could move quickly while the M2/M3s were going to Heavy Force units.

        The Medium Force was put on hold for another decade or so...
        The US Army has however trialled the LAV25 in the field, a number were loaned from the USMC and used alongside the M551 Sheridan in the First Gulf War by 3/73 Armor. After the war they were returned. Source Osprey M551 Sherridan

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Abbott Shaull View Post
          Seems their minds were already made up...
          What minds
          If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

          Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

          Mors ante pudorem

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
            What minds
            the TO&E clearly state that nobody above squadron level is authorised a working brain. its right there in black and white...
            the best course of action when all is against you is to slow down and think critically about the situation. this way you are not blindly rushing into an ambush and your mind is doing something useful rather than getting you killed.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by bobcat View Post
              the TO&E clearly state that nobody above squadron level is authorised a working brain. its right there in black and white...
              And nobody below is authorised to use theirs.....
              If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

              Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

              Mors ante pudorem

              Comment

              • #97
                Originally posted by James Langham View Post
                The US Army has however trialled the LAV25 in the field, a number were loaned from the USMC and used alongside the M551 Sheridan in the First Gulf War by 3/73 Armor. After the war they were returned. Source Osprey M551 Sherridan
                One platoon out of how many deployed in PGI The biggest draw backs that the LAV-25 had as far as the Army was concerned came down to two points...It was Canadian...and even more chilling, it was used by the Marines first!

                And that was the end of that discussion!
                The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                  And nobody below is authorised to use theirs.....
                  Gentlemen, may I remind both of you that you are violating National Security by confirming what many people already suspect

                  The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                  Comment

                  • #99
                    Meh, what do I care I'm Australian...
                    If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                    Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                    Mors ante pudorem

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      Two of my favorite authors (at least on the military) are James Dunnigan and Albert Nofi, authors of the "Dirty Little Secrets..." series and "How to Make War". How are some...

                      During WWII one of Britain's most critical war materials, right after ammunition, was tea. They stockpiled 150 million tons of tea at the height of the war...thats about 6 trillion cups of the stuff!

                      The armies of WWII went into action with two rather odd types of units (and these units are still around today). These are the mobile bakery and mobile butchering detachments which are able to process large amounts of raw material into rations. A typical mobile butchery could provide half-pound meat rations from a typical animal: 40 head of cattle would provide 40,000 rations; 80 pigs would provide 24,000 rations and 240 head of sheep would provide 19,000 rations. A field bakery, depending upon the season and weather conditions could provide between 15,000 and 19,200 rations of bread (1 pond per ration).

                      What does "USA" really mean During WWII, the US shipped thousand of trucks to the Russians. Needless to say, these military vehicles had "USA" painted on them. One popular "translation" concocted by the political officers was that USA meant "Ubiyat Sukensyna Adolfa or..."Kill that son of a bitch Adolf!"

                      As the US Army advanced across France in 1944, it entered ground familiar to the oldermen, the battlefields of WWI and there are two stories that came out.
                      A regimental commanding officer was pouring over some maps when he came across some familar village names. Turning to his operations officer he asked, "Major, any chance we can go around this town Back in 1918 I made some pretty tall promises to a young lady there and I'd rather not run into her just know."
                      A pillbox in Lossarine, in NE France was taken by American troops twice, once in each world war. On one of the walls is written a doughboy's name and a date in late 1918. Just under it appears the same name with a date in late 1944. Beneath that is scrawled "This is the last time I want to be in this damned bunker."
                      The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

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                      • #101
                        Yeah that is the damn thing about both of those wars. Closed enough together for some of the young men who fought in the first one, to be either recalled duty, still on active duty, volunteer for return to duty. I bet that happen lot more than people realized.

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                        • #102
                          What a change from the hell of Trench Warfare to Blitzkrieg! Its also a stat that you don't see any real info on.
                          The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Yeah I know what you mean.

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              Think about the guys who served in WWII, get recalled to fight in Korea and then have a couple of tours in Vietnam....
                              The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                              Comment

                              • #105
                                Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                                And nobody below is authorised to use theirs.....
                                Sad but true. The US Army needs to develop a better idea threshing machine to separate the wheat from the chaff of Joe's ideas. The operating assumption is that the wheat-to-chaff ratio makes idea that comes from below not worth the trouble of examining. There are exceptions, of course, such as when the leadership desperately needs a new idea or when one is talking about small units with a fair experience base. For the most part, though, Joe's ideas are considered chaff.


                                Webstral
                                “We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.

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