Fiddle's Green

[pmulcahy11b]

Thats the new Army for you. Do I miss being in Yep. Did I love being in Despite the patent falsehoods, lies, and deceit that was coming in to vogue, Yes. I think I did good things, I served my country - something all too few these days wish to do, and did good things for those in other countries just by being there. But it is a crying shame things have gone the way they have.

Yes, despite all that, I'd rather still be in. I sometimes tell people I'd rather stayed in and died in Iraq or Afghanistan than gotten out. But oh well.

[dragoon500ly]

Thats the new Army for you. Do I miss being in Yep. Did I love being in Despite the patent falsehoods, lies, and deceit that was coming in to vogue, Yes. I think I did good things, I served my country - something all too few these days wish to do, and did good things for those in other countries just by being there. But it is a crying shame things have gone the way they have.

When I first joined up, the Hollow Army was rebuilding after the Vietnam War. We made such strides in getting rid of the druggies, rebuilding the leadership, pride, discipline. By the time I made NCO, the service was something to be proud of. By the time of Desert Storm, we had overcome the Hollow Army.

Then came the Peace Dividend, Don't Ask Don't Tell, the exodus of the combat leaders and the advent of the corporate bullshit. The Army has lost its way yet again. We may have first-class equipment, and excellent material in the form of our enlisted personnel, but there are too many "leaders" who are just there to punch the ole time card and then get themselves a nice position with ole Chase or IBM....they could care less about their responsibilities.

[Abbott Shaull]

That was part of the problem before too with many officers in all services were in it just to do their time. That included going to airborne, Ranger, and Special Operation schools because it looked good on their records.

[dragoon500ly]

Yup, too bad they forgot the "LEADERSHIP" part of the course.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yup, too bad they forgot the "LEADERSHIP" part of the course.

Yeah I know. It just boggles my mind that they have 20 year old E-5s and E-6s running around who have one or two tours under their belt. I remember even to be become an NCO you had to BNCO and then on to work your way up. Most of these kids as E-5 and E-6 barely had time to learn their field craft of their MOS let alone take the classes, train properly with their units before deployments and what not.... Maybe it just me.

Granted if a guy is promoted due leadership they have showed out in the field that is fine, but one thing I do remember is that you were usually one type of soldier. You were great garrison troop, or great with field craft aspect. It took time to become competent in both....

[Panther Al]

Leadership course What's this of which you speak Back in 07 you didn't have to take any till you was a E5 promotable.

[Abbott Shaull]

Leadership course What's this of which you speak Back in 07 you didn't have to take any till you was a E5 promotable.

How come that doesn't surprise me. I know it was one of the reasons why I was in, at least with the 82nd Airborne there were no Corporals, if you E-4 you were Specialist even if you were Fire Team Leader you still were a Spec-4. I remember when I was in the 82nd Replacement Detachment an Corporal who was transferring in from Korea was told by the Detachment E-6 that there were no Corporals in the Division...

Of course, now I don't know if they have change that or not. I always felt if you were E-4 and Fire Team Leader then you should be able to wear the stripes. Otherwise, to someone outside of your chain of command would assume you were just another lazy pogue....

[Abbott Shaull]

I suppose they are allowing E-4 or lower to join Special Forces now.

As well as probably there is drop in the demand of having Airborne Wings, Air Assault Wings, and the Ranger Tab. That so many NCOs and Junior Officers seem to get, most of the time to make them look more impressive to themselves than any real desire to do those jobs...

[Panther Al]

I suppose they are allowing E-4 or lower to join Special Forces now.

Thats one way to put it...

Back in 06-07 when I was consigned to recruiting hell, you could actually enlist, while still in high school, Special Forces. A little harder granted. You did basic, did jump, did Q, and then language school if you didn't already have one, and once done, insta-sgt and off you go.

[Abbott Shaull]

Thats one way to put it...

Back in 06-07 when I was consigned to recruiting hell, you could actually enlist, while still in high school, Special Forces. A little harder granted. You did basic, did jump, did Q, and then language school if you didn't already have one, and once done, insta-sgt and off you go.

Yeah, I understand why Special Forces are doing that, because other services Special Operation Command allow new recruits. At one time when they were basically went into country side to train and advise then yeah a team of E-5s on up would come in handy. Yet, for many of the operations they carry out today, I don't see where having everyone at least E-5. Maybe E-4 until they prove themselves and what not, but not give them sergeant stripes because they have finish 2 years or so of courses.

[bobcat]

but one thing I do remember is that you were usually one type of soldier. You were great garrison troop, or great with field craft aspect. It took time to become competent in both....

i know i guy always standing in front of somebodies desk while in garrison. but once he's down range people beg to have this young FO assigned to them.

[Abbott Shaull]

i know i guy always standing in front of somebodies desk while in garrison. but once he's down range people beg to have this young FO assigned to them.

Yep it the same in every MOS. The ones who do best in the field don't always make the best garrison soldiers...

[helbent4]

Then came the Peace Dividend, Don't Ask Don't Tell...

Lee,

I would have to agree about the negative effects of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (DADT) on the US military, especially in light of the real costs involved. The Government Accountability Office determined that between 2004 and 2009 alone, DADT cost the US military $193 million dollars to carry out in just five of the seventeen years of its existence.

Think about it... this was money that did not go towards funding a single weapon, buying a single round of ammunition up-armour a single Humvee or buy a single set of body armour. It was a policy that by design did not save one American life (other than perhaps the soldiers that were forced to quit and return home). Not a single dollar went directly or indirectly towards making the United States or the rest of the world any safer. It did not kill a single Irqqi insurgent, Saddam Fedayeen, Taliban, al Qaeda member. Crucial technicians, translators and intelligence officers (among others) were removed from their positions, the funding to train them going completely to waste. Indeed, most of the cost of DADT was towards training replacements, but by the same token it would seem more valuable for those funds to go towards adding thousands of additional trained personnel.

Tony

[dragoon500ly]

Lee,

I would have to agree about the negative effects of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" (DADT) on the US military, especially in light of the real costs involved. The Government Accountability Office determined that between 2004 and 2009 alone, DADT cost the US military $193 million dollars to carry out in just five of the seventeen years of its existence.

Think about it... this was money that did not go towards funding a single weapon, buying a single round of ammunition up-armour a single Humvee or buy a single set of body armour. It was a policy that by design did not save one American life (other than perhaps the soldiers that were forced to quit and return home). Not a single dollar went directly or indirectly towards making the United States or the rest of the world any safer. It did not kill a single Irqqi insurgent, Saddam Fedayeen, Taliban, al Qaeda member. Crucial technicians, translators and intelligence officers (among others) were removed from their positions, the funding to train them going completely to waste. Indeed, most of the cost of DADT was towards training replacements, but by the same token it would seem more valuable for those funds to go towards adding thousands of additional trained personnel.

Tony

I always thought Don't Ask, Don't Tell was one of the dumber moments in US military history. What somebody does to another consenting adult, off-base, is no one else's business. But I guess it was just a means of taking attention from the hijinks that the brass was pulling...a base commander taking advantage of his position to get the wives of his subordinate officers to have sex with him Another general flying his mistress on military aircraft A officer responsible for nuclear weapons disobeying orders so that she can have an affair with an enlisted airwoman's husband Perhaps the service needs to add more saltpeter to the rations!

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps the service needs to add more saltpeter to the rations!

I assume you mean in the same manner as the Bromide myth

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/06/29/2611115.htm