a bit of politics and history?

[Mohoender]

In order to prevent too much political talks on game talks. I propose to start a post on that subject. Just in case, but if you find it insane don't hesitate and say it . I don't have anything against political talk and history talk (I love it). However, before moving here, many were saying that politics was not the point and I think they are still right.

[kato13]

This board is very good at moderating itself. The only times we have ever come close to going over the edge in in threads related to politics. We have always pulled ourselves back thankfully. Surprisingly religion does not seem to be a sore spot as far as I know.

As long as everyone keeps things civil there should be no problem. I just want everyone to know that a moderator (me) practically lives on this board now. so think twice if your passions might be running away with you. It would take quite a bit for me to pull the moderation trigger, but be aware I will do it if necessary.

[Mohoender]

I know, I was not thinking about passion but I just felt concerned about an observation that was made a few weeks ago when we still were at RPGhost.

Thanks for the answer. I like it better that way actually.

[Marc]

Mmmmmm... Generally, when I found a thread that causes me too much excitation, I have so much problems to translate it to English language that I must cool me down before trying to write a reply.

No idea about what happened in RPGHost. But I'm with Kato13 regarding that this board seems very good at moderating itself. So, we can try it if people is interested. Why not

Anyway, you word is an order here, Kato

[kato13]

I am probably being overly concerned, but in the last 24 years I have seen more boards than I can count enter into a death spiral of childish behavior over politics. Modern politics seems to be a particular problem as it is not an abstract mental exercise but a actual choice that one makes or has made.

IIRC this board only progressed to the point of passive name calling (ie "if you don't agree, you are an idiot" or "only an idiot would think .....") but it was almost enough to cause me to leave, even though I was not directly involved in the discussion. My belief in the people here kept me from leaving, and they did not disappoint me with the maturity that was eventually displayed.

All topics are open but please tread lightly. This board is my baby now and I will protect it.

[General Pain]

I am probably being overly concerned, but in the last 24 years I have seen more boards than I can count enter into a death spiral of childish behavior over politics. Modern politics seems to be a particular problem as it is not an abstract mental exercise but a actual choice that one makes or has made.

IIRC this board only progressed to the point of passive name calling (ie "if you don't agree, you are an idiot" or "only an idiot would think .....") but it was almost enough to cause me to leave, even though I was not directly involved in the discussion. My belief in the people here kept me from leaving, and they did not disappoint me with the maturity that was eventually displayed.

All topics are open but please tread lightly. This board is my baby now and I will protect it.

I agree.... I used to be an atheist but now I realize I'm GOD.

[Targan]

So politics huh Well, I'm impressed by the fact that when the US banking system makes some mistakes and suffers a crash as a consequence, boy does it take most of the rest of the world with it. Hard core and sad.

[Mohoender]

So far the rest of the world is far from being down unless you coun't out China, India and Russia (about 50% of it). Nobody's is saying it but the Indian stock exchange is going up for most of the time. As we (Western countries) are saving banks with money we don't have (according to our various state deficit) someone might currently be buying a good chunk of our respective countries. May be we should start learning Cantonese, Mandarin or any Indian language .

Future will tell but nobody knows it, and obviously not our political leaders (Oops, U.S. still is in the process of choosing one).

[jester]

[QUOTE=Mohoender

Future will tell but nobody knows it, and obviously not our political leaders (Oops, U.S. still is in the process of choosing one).[/QUOTE]


As the line goes,

"Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite."

As for the politics and finance issue.

Well that is a big problem with international investment, and dare I go there, I dare, the European Union and tying its currency to the Euro.

It is strong generaly, and some of it was at the stake of dragging down one countries and propping up others, but when something bad happens <like now> they domino as is happening.

Remember, with issues of finance, there is always risk. And if you tie your finances to other systems well then you are exposed to the problems of that system.

A big issue here in the US is the home loan system and dare I, yes I dare SCANDAL! Part of it was several years ago the government demanded and investigated mortgage lenders for not lending to low income disadvantaged people. And other less scrupulous lenders manipulated the books lending to people who did not have the ability and should never have had a loan, but they stood to make a quick immediate profit <they did not look long term> and coupled with governmental pressure they got away with it.

And of course the doctoring the books of most of these companies, and well the bubble popped and here we are!

Another attituide is idiots who buy things they can't afford. When I worked in the law office I had so many clients who could not afford their homes, they had terrible credit ratings, had overly high interest, and paying more for the home than it was worth. And in addition the courts were increasing the alimony and child support because of the worth of the house. And they refused to end the madness. End result, they lost everything.

I think it is in part because so many people today at least in California are fiscaly irresponsible and raised with the idea of credit and credit cards are to be used and used often. Then again we are almost indoctrinated to get credit cards and buy buy buy. They do not think about having to pay for it. And that in part is a problem with society. Heck, I purchased my anatomy books last term and the school had three different fliers for credit cards they put in the shopping bag along with my books. There was a huge banner for a credit card with Wells Fargo, and now that bank has a permament booth right next to the administration office with a couple people durring most school hours hawking their credit cards.

The credit companies were overly predatory, and they were targeting people who had no buisness with credit, either they could not pay for it, or they were too imature to understand and handle it, or, they were and are playing the system taking everything they can, then ewalking away declaring bankruptcy. I actualy have several freinds who have done so multiple times. And then they start over again, its as if they do not learn from their mistakes.

ARGH!!!!!! Enough, before I go insane...okay more than I already am

[headquarters]

what goes up must come down

Luckily or sadly I am a regular income guy that stand to loose nothing and gain alot by the crisis.(as interest rates drop my house will become cheaper to keep I think).

The world has seen rescessions and economical downfall many times before .
It will pick up again , but in the meantime many tragedies on personal and other levels will be played out .

My friends father gave his son a piece of advice for the future when he was moving out at 18 :" Son you need to learn to things to get ahead in the world of tomorrow- the touch method and Chinese"

[Marc]

Good advice, Headquarters. And with the phrase ""Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite" of Jester I feel myself covered in knowledge

Today, at launch time, I've been talking with a friend about the financial crisis. Well, right now it's seems the typical subject to talk about in all Europe. In Spain, the economical situation of US is carefully watch these says, and sometimes I have the impression we're waiting for the arrival of the next wave that will be produced at the other side of the Atlantic.

For the moment the situations seems under control, here. But I and my friend have the opinion that this financial crisis could be one more indication that we well see important changes in the world, in the next few years. The shortage of petroleum, the rise of China, the spread of nuclear weapon capacity, the seeming fragility of an economical system based in the need of constant growing, the eternal problem in the near east ... And of course, here en Europe, we haven't two nations taking cofee in the same way. Some old factors and some new ones could change the power balance in the near future.

[headquarters]

New nation states and other turbulence

Good advice, Headquarters. And with the phrase ""Its a huge shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite" of Jester I feel myself covered in knowledge

Today, at launch time, I've been talking with a friend about the financial crisis. Well, right now it's seems the typical subject to talk about in all Europe. In Spain, the economical situation of US is carefully watch these says, and sometimes I have the impression we're waiting for the arrival of the next wave that will be produced at the other side of the Atlantic.

For the moment the situations seems under control, here. But I and my friend have the opinion that this financial crisis could be one more indication that we well see important changes in the world, in the next few years. The shortage of petroleum, the rise of China, the spread of nuclear weapon capacity, the seeming fragility of an economical system based in the need of constant growing, the eternal problem in the near east ... And of course, here en Europe, we haven't two nations taking cofee in the same way. Some old factors and some new ones could change the power balance in the near future.

I agree -from early 2007 when I didnt think about any of this up til now there has been massive turbulence I think .Maybe it has been in the works since end of WWII,maybe since the end of the cold war-either way a situation that spirals downwards in a massive way like this one makes changes possible.
As the big powers face empty coffers -smaller players might act up.Shifts in political opinions of the masses are more common when there are economical problems..

I am guessing that Belgium is going to topple in the next 2 years and split into 2 ,Iceland will go into recievership/bankrupcy ,Russia will expand its influence and gain new cards to play ..

Mucho material for a new go at a MERC 2000 campaign based on current events ..

[jester]

Here is something to consider.

Russia and China were and have been playing with the market manipulating thing. Alot of this revolves around their actions, and of course OPEC, the riples affected the US and then those ripples crossed the Atlantic and are returning to the powers that basicaly helped create them.

Much like the riples on a pond when you throw rocks into it.

[headquarters]

hmm..

Here is something to consider.

Russia and China were and have been playing with the market manipulating thing. Alot of this revolves around their actions, and of course OPEC, the riples affected the US and then those ripples crossed the Atlantic and are returning to the powers that basicaly helped create them.

Much like the riples on a pond when you throw rocks into it.

Didnt this whole thing start with the US banks folding over sub prime real estate investmenets leading to an international liquid/equity crisis

[Mohoender]

Marc I agree about the situation change worldwide. We are talking a lot also in France even as the situation remain stable. My wife compare the U.S. situation to that of Spain in the 17-18th century and I found her comparison better than any others.

HQ I would have shared your analysis about Russia but as oil is going down the level of state incom in that country will go down also. I'm convinced that Russia will do good but I doubt it to be a future major player.

Jest, I know that you are very supportive of US and you are right. If I had to trust someone that would be a U.S. citizen but if I had to distrust someone that would be a U.S. politician (or banker ). I haven't been in U.S. since 2003 and that's only because I hardly consider your country a democracy anymore. DON'T KILL ME ON THE SPOT. U.S. citizens are democratic, deeply attached to their democracy, honest (in their thinking) and trustworthy, but your administration is not currently so (or so I feel). Hey people, your are the bosses, the guy in the White House and those in Congress are your employees. I might be wrong but when you take a oath that is to the people not to the government (you can say something similar about us).

Russia and China don't have much to do with this except that they have the true wealth. You are in California and if I remember well you had an issue some years ago (15 or so) about some public contractor. The governor at the time chose an american company to do the job over a japanese one. The problem was that the american company was producing everything in Korea while the japanese would have done it in the U.S., employing U.S. citizens.

One last thing, we all talk about Russia and China but don't forget India and South America; old habits die hard. Ok, the West currently represent 50% (at least) of the world financial wealth and that is shrinking quickly (not the case when it comes to industrial and raw material production) but we only represent 15% of the population. Therefore, 15% of the world is doing bad, 5% is doing terrible (I don't really know how terrible), that hardly make it for the entire humanity.

Future will be interesting, we are all living trough a great time of world history.