a bit of politics and history?

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Actually Ford Explorer Diesel remain a ghost car on second hand websites. . You'll find plenty just to learn there is none.

Most car makers have diesel models has they are selling them in Europe. Isn't the Army Hummvee a diesel Does California regulation mean that California national guard cannot buy them

About polution they polute differently. Gasoline is throwing more CO2 in the atmosphere while diesel is rejecting more micro particules (favoring athma, for exemple). In fact, Gasoline helps warming the atmosphere while diesel helps cooling it up. I used to buy the expensive diesel (with less sulfur...) but, since I learned that, I went back to the regular more poluting one (I don't have athma but suffer from heat). Sorry about others.

Yeah, I keep getting asked of there is a Ford Explorer diesel, I remember one guy in Quebec asked me. So far, there are none although the rumors still fly around.

Chuck M.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Sh, but it does need to change, the mindset, and yes that includes the auto industry. Until they change and come up with a product that they are really behind then the status quo will remain the same.

As for the whole battery idea, I totaly agree, that is what people do not think of when they talk of the alternative electric vehicles. The batteries need to be replaced every six or so years, then what does one do with them

Yeah, I'm afraid most people in North America would like the cars they generally always had. There are some who would like to have a car much like the time we grew up in. My aunt had a 1966 Ford Galaxie station wagon and my other aunt had a huge 1968 Plymouth station wagon. I think the mini-van and SUV took the place of that because that is what the consumer wants. I think maybe if we go back to more of a full-sized station wagon, that will be OK, I seem to remember the last ones of that type were made in the 1980's or so. I think the best bet is for us to go to fuels like bio-diesel, or some form of alcohol where we can get those from waste. Hybrids are OK, but again, as it is mentioned here, "what do you do with the dead batteries"

[Targan]

Hybrids are OK, but again, as it is mentioned here, "what do you do with the dead batteries"

The HEMTTA3 uses a ProPulse power plant system with ultracapacitors. Ultracapicitors seem to me to be the way of the future (well those and fuel cells). Check out ultracapcitors, lots of info on the internet. Far superior to batteries and last orders of magnitude longer.

[jester]

Yeah, I'm afraid most people in North America would like the cars they generally always had. There are some who would like to have a car much like the time we grew up in. My aunt had a 1966 Ford Galaxie station wagon and my other aunt had a huge 1968 Plymouth station wagon. I think the mini-van and SUV took the place of that because that is what the consumer wants. I think maybe if we go back to more of a full-sized station wagon, that will be OK, I seem to remember the last ones of that type were made in the 1980's or so. I think the best bet is for us to go to fuels like bio-diesel, or some form of alcohol where we can get those from waste. Hybrids are OK, but again, as it is mentioned here, "what do you do with the dead batteries"

Yes, as I mentioned before, it is human nature to loath change, and that is the problem with big cars, as I said, it is part of the car culture that we developed as a nation.

And another thing on that line. Everyone says we should convert to more effeicnet vehicles. That is what we hear from the hollywierd elite. They fail to grasp that a persons car is usualy the second largest investment a person makes after a home. They are a bit pricey and folks buy them on credit usualy, paying them off over a couple years. With the new technology of bio diesel, and fuel cells and electric vehicles and all the other types they are a signifigant amount higher in purchase cost than the vehicle one has now, so where on earth does a common person get the money to pay for it I imagine it would be like trying to carry on a meaningful conversation with the likes of Paris Hilton, they just don't comprehend. Kinda like like what Marie Antonette allegedly said, "Well if the pesants don't have bread, then let them eat cake." ARGH!!!!

I suggest that alot of the technology that is on the market today is transtional and whatever it is that is eventualy developed will replace gasoline and these other methods. Or humanity will return to living in the dark at night.

As for biodiesel and alcohol, those are agricultural products and are labor and fuel intensive not to mention land intensive which poses their own problems.

Hmmm, hydro power, solar power, tidal power, geothermal power <a finite resource as well, but not for several thousand years> nuclear power, again finite, but still long term.

However, the whole methane generator systems that I have seen and read about seem encouraging, a dairy farm is able to supply its own power for operations and send some back into the grid, that is encouraging. Imagine what could be done with a municiple sewage plant Just build a dome over the ponds much like they do with desalinization plants to collect the methane and bleed it off.

[Mohoender]

Understand your point about less advantaged people but that would probably be a typical American problem at the moment. As you said that is part of your culture and you'll have to face a huge infrastructure problem. However, the most famous American car in history remained the "Ford T" and that is far from being big.

Europeans tend to use smaller car as we have less free space to drive them may be. That's also why I prefer to do better with existing technologies. It is cheaper to make more effecient fuel engines that to make brand new engines using the best improvement we can think of.

In France, for now, when you buy less consuming vehicles you get a 700! to 1200! (the second bonus remain a dream to these days) bonus from the state (roughly 1000$ to 1600$) + an average constructor bonus of 2000!. That makes people think. You also can sell your older models for a guaranted price: I sold my wife 20 years old city car for 2500-3000! (constructor bonus included; hey they are not crazy).

Moreover, they are curently taking out several cars that will cost you less than 9000!. Still a big investment but affordable by more people. Of course they are not the less consuming ones and the most fancy cars but they are now very decent for that price with plenty of room for the family. The Funny thing is that these car were first bought by wealthy people (guess why ). Nevertheless, one of my neighbour, who happen to be one of the poorest familly around, just bought one going from a near ruin to a decent vehicle. They are nice people and I was truly happy for them.

A side advantage is that they don't rely on much electronics and would work in T2K. Here is the most popular model at the moment in France: the Logan MCV.

[Targan]

And another thing on that line. Everyone says we should convert to more effeicnet vehicles. That is what we hear from the hollywierd elite. They fail to grasp that a persons car is usualy the second largest investment a person makes after a home.

I understand that it is fairly common among the American middle class to have a lot more vehicles per household than here in Australia. Around here one or two cars per family is normal and if it is two cars most commonly only one will be a large car.

One again apologies in advance for any offence but it really pisses me off when people buy big four wheel drives (what Americans call SUVs) but they never leave urban areas. I have no problem with people owning four wheel drives because they need off-road and/or towing capability but owning an SUV or huge pickup truck for urban driving strikes me as, well, blindingly stupid.

[jester]

I understand that it is fairly common among the American middle class to have a lot more vehicles per household than here in Australia. Around here one or two cars per family is normal and if it is two cars most commonly only one will be a large car.

One again apologies in advance for any offence but it really pisses me off when people buy big four wheel drives (what Americans call SUVs) but they never leave urban areas. I have no problem with people owning four wheel drives because they need off-road and/or towing capability but owning an SUV or huge pickup truck for urban driving strikes me as, well, blindingly stupid.

Then we are in agreement!!!!!

I HATE the soccer moms who have the super monster truck, and the only off roading they do is when they drive on the sidewalk because it is to much vehicle for them to handle. I remember when I worked for the V.A. hospital the number two person in charge a royal bitch, had a mustange and a super monster truck. She would damn near run me over each time she drove the mustang, and she would take up three parking spaces and take out some of the grass from her idiot park job. One day I asked if she liked doing out door or what she hauled with it. I already knew the answer. Her reply was "Oh I don't, I just like the security and being up high to see." Oh, she also remarked how cute my lil jeep was. But, my jeep actualy had mud on the tires and knew the fun of a country dirt road in the desert and mountains..

I know so many idiots who have monester trucks like that and they have my contempt. What is even funnier, is in metro LA they have 4 wheel drives and it rains, they put their vehicles in 4 wheel drive! ARGH!!!! someone shoot me now!

As for multiple cars per family, generaly it is two cars per family. Of course lots of teenagers end up with cars too, not all mind you but a good portion, most often they buy them with money earned themselves and this can increase the number.

I am weird, I have right now, six, no seven cars. well five cars and two trucks! One is in the process of transfering to a freind, one needs a new engine in the garage, that is converted for desert treks, one is in the garage well, its a FIAT, my uncle left it to me. One is my uncles working car that he left me, another is a car I let my uncle use until he killed it and didn't get rid of, another is a tired worn out diesel volkswagen I drove, and my current primary car. Of course when it comes down two it, I will have three cars, or two and a truck, of course one was left to me. As I said I am different.

But, two cars is the norm here, at least in the bedroom communities of California. And as I said we do not have a mass transit system worth a damn. The bottom line, alot of people have a commute of 40 plus miles to work each way. For me, a 30 to 40 minute commute is pretty good, and that is the case for most people in my city.

[Mohoender]

Then we are in agreement!!!!!

I HATE the soccer moms who have the super monster truck, and the only off roading they do is when they drive on the sidewalk because it is to much vehicle for them to handle...

I know so many idiots who have monester trucks like that and they have my contempt. What is even funnier, is in metro LA they have 4 wheel drives and it rains, they put their vehicles in 4 wheel drive! ARGH!!!! someone shoot me now!

About the "soccer moms" that seem to be an international type as we have one at my daughter school but that goes with the mom more than with the car. The bigger the car the less caring they have to give.

A small story about this (true one as I have an eyewitness to it): a man (obviously wealthy) is trying to find a parking space for its large Jaguar. After 30 minutes running around the block he finally find one. A little girl (in her 20's) jumped in with her tiny austin mini. The guy is mad and ask her to leaving pointing out that he was there first (he is right about this). Her answer is "I'm young and pretty, I can do as I please". The man doesn't say a word, gets back to his car, puts it on rear and crushes the austin mini. He goes out before leaving and tells her "I'm old, mean and I have the best insurance, have a good day". Then, he left the spot while the girl was crying on her ruined car. I hope I have been clear as I love that one.

About the guys putting there FWD with rain that might be justified. I have a small suzuki jimny (really tiny) and I'm in the mountain so i'm using it often. However, when it rains, if you don't put the FWD on you have a good chance to jump off the cliff after two or three turns. That is also true when driving on a nice strait road. It is the only problem that I can see with this car. Otherwise, you can almost climb trees with it. By the way my other car is a regular drive one but with reinforced floor as the roads in my area are not that good. Most roads have only enough room for one car but they are two ways with trucks and buses taking them. I'm laughing my ass off each time I see some city guy with a Hummvee; strangely only city guys have Hummvees. In my area the most common FWD will be japanese models with Lada Niva coming second and Land rovers (mostly older models) coming third.

[Marc]

Bon dia!

I confirm the point about the moms in hug cars. We have the same species here. Same arguments: high driving position, safety, bla,bla,bla...

I have the big luck to live at only 2 Km from my working place . So I normally go to work in my bicycle or on foot. I live in a town with roughly 10.000 inhabitant, so nearly everybody who is working in my same industrial park lives between 1 and 3 km from the working place. But I'm nearly the only person in the entire park that not goes there by car. The others are the teenagers not older enough to get the driving licence (18 years in Spain). One worker, one car. Hundreds of cars running, only to cover 4 km per day... And I know that each of this persons can give me a handful of reasons to use the car in such a small run... Strange think our advanced society... Perhaps it sound stupid but I think that little things like that causes our western world to lose momentum.

[Mohoender]

Marc

I don't think it sounds stupid, I even have a neighbour who takes her car to bring her kids to school (300 meters away) and, then, back home. . Watch the south african movie "the gods must be crazy", it says it all.

Your position might be a little old fashioned but still very accurate to these days (saddly in my opinion).

[Targan]

I cycle to and from work too and when I have a motorised vehicle it is a motorbike. Not riding a motorbike at the moment though because every motorbike I've ever owned I've written off and my shoulder is still recovering from my last big crash.

The "better safety" argument used by "soccer moms" is incredibly selfish because while it might be safer for them and their family it makes it less safe for other road users. And sure, they are high up so they have better visibility but it reduces visibility for the smaller vehicles around them. I have nothing but contempt for that mindset. I want to keep my family safe too but not if it means metaphorically flipping the bird to the rest of my community.

Rant over.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

I understand that it is fairly common among the American middle class to have a lot more vehicles per household than here in Australia. Around here one or two cars per family is normal and if it is two cars most commonly only one will be a large car.

One again apologies in advance for any offence but it really pisses me off when people buy big four wheel drives (what Americans call SUVs) but they never leave urban areas. I have no problem with people owning four wheel drives because they need off-road and/or towing capability but owning an SUV or huge pickup truck for urban driving strikes me as, well, blindingly stupid.

Well, I admit I have a Ford Explorer but it isn't really a huge SUV, it is based on the Ranger chassis which is a small pickup. It is good to have in the snow plus I do like to have the ability to haul things inside. My buddy's Ford F-150 pickup is out of commission so he asked me to pick up a projection HDTV and it just fit inside the Explorer. I do admit I love the big cars that were made in the 1950's to the 1970's here in the U.S.

I'm still for the consumer choosing what he/she wants along with the free market but I'll leave it at this, if you're willing to pay for it and not complain, then more power to you. I do agree though that using a Hummer to shuttle kids to soccer practice is a bit over the top.

Chuck M.

[Targan]

I'm still for the consumer choosing what he/she wants along with the free market but I'll leave it at this, if you're willing to pay for it and not complain, then more power to you.

But oil is a finite resource. Why is it okay for one nation that just happens to have huge wealth at this point along the human timeline to use up the vast majority of the world's oil all by its self when it could use it much less quickly by adopting more fuel efficient vehicles or, even better, spend some of that vast wealth on developing engines that run on other fuel sources

Apologies again for any offence but "we have a free market economy so it is fair and reasonable for anyone with sufficient money to drive whatever they like and burn as much fuel as they like" strikes me as greedy and, dare I say it, ignorant. One day, hopefully, currently underdeveloped countries will become developed countries and will need raw materials and things like crude oil and they'll look around and realise that in the decades and centuries before the countries that became developed and rich first used everything up. And used up the resources in an incredibly wasteful way which just adds insult to injury. As a person living in a rich western country I feel very guilty about these things. We tend not to care about those that will come after us and especially seem not to care about those who will come after us who are not part of our own nation or culture.

[kato13]

Apologies again for any offence but "we have a free market economy so it is fair and reasonable for anyone with sufficient money to drive whatever they like and burn as much fuel as they like" strikes me as greedy and, dare I say it, ignorant.

Targan you know that the people here are not in general ignorant of the subjects they discuss, and if they are they are usually open to a multitude of opinions. Remember one hundred well informed people can view the same facts and come up with one hundred very different conclusions.

[Targan]

Yes that was a rather intemperate remark on my part. I have been bad