Recommissioned US Navy ships

[Olefin]

I have done a bit of work on the Maine coast--all non-canon, of course, but folded into the existing body of work so as to create as few wrinkles as possible. Others are free to use as much or as little of Poseidons Rifles as they see fit. In Poseidons Rifles, Bath Iron Works is firmly under the control of First District, USCG. Shortages of everything have prevented the facility from doing much besides repairing USCGC Gallatin and whatever shipping Milgov sends up to the District. The foundation of the food situation is fishing. Under the protective watch of Coast Guard cutters, fishing fleets from the District exploit the waters off coastal Maine and as far away as the Grand Banks. A truce that is much warmer than Milgov would like marks the relationship between the District and the United Brotherhood of Fishermen (UBF)(Last Submarine) up through 4/1/01. By the end of 2000, survivors in the District cantonments are growing their own food just like everybody else; but the fishing got a relatively high population through that first winter and growing season. As a result, about 85% of the surviving population of Maine lives on a narrow coastal strip under the protection of the United States Coast Guard.

Do you have Poseidon's Rifles posted anywhere Love to look at it!

[Webstral]

It's around here somewhere. When I have some time, I'll either find it here or assemble the requisite materials off my hard drive.

In Poseidon's Rifles, Bath Iron Works is engaged in much more mundane work than producing new warships. Fishing vessels are the lifeblood of First District. Also, the machine shops at BIW are engaged in producing arms, armaments, and spare parts. Ditto the facilities at Portsmouth, NH. Towards the end of 2000, the various surviving governments in the region began talking about stepping up trade and attempting to coordinate their industrial efforts. If they can make this happen, then there is every reason to believe that the defense forces of northern New England will be able to equip themselves with enough machine guns, mortars, and ammunition to defeat the emerging threat of marauder super-gangs called hordes. If everyone is very lucky, they will realize that scattered among the various cantonments of New England are enough people with the right kinds of experience to operate the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant. Unfortunately, many of the surviving specialists worked at Vermont Yankee and now reside in the United Communities of Southern Vermont under the leadership of the Black Watch. The Black Watch is not especially cooperative. They have bad blood with the Vermont government at Burlington, the MPs at Westover AFB, the New Hampshire government at Manchester, and the Vikings who effectively run Nashua. This is a shame, because the benefits to all of bringing Maine Yankee back on-line at even a fraction of its potential would be a huge boon to the whole region.

[James1978]

The Bath Iron Works would be perfect for a mission similar to Last Submarine - but instead make it a commando mission to seize control of it from New America and then have MilGov move assets from Cape May and Norfolk to get the facility up and running again

Sure it would take a long time - but considering most of the remaining USN ships would be able to fit in a facility like that it would be perfect for that use.

You could even use it in combo with the Corpus Christi - i.e. she is hooked up to provide power while they get the power generating station going again at the Bath Iron Works.

And that works great with the canon of MilGov working to repair places that would be of benefit for military and also getting food - i.e. if you can repair DD's there you can also repair fishing boats and other ships.

You arent going to get all of Maine on its feet again - just the area around the Iron Works - a la what they are doing in A Rock in Troubled Waters for instance - its not all of NJ but just one small area that provides a big benefit for both the state and MilGov - i.e. the naval facilities in that area that also can be used to base fishing vessels out of.

A minor wrinkle for anyone who is interested. There was no dry dock at Bath Iron Works in Bath in T2K. Until 2001, there was a subsidiary yard in Portland, ME where the company had a dry dock. They installed the sonar domes at this facility.

The floating dry dock at Bath seen on GoogleEarth wasn't in place until 2001.

So if you want a dry dock, you also have to secure Portland.

[Panther Al]

Nitpick.

The entire Spruance and Kidd class were built at Ingalls Shipbuilding in Pascagoula, MS.

Bath Iron Works and Ingalls Shipbuilding split the Ticonderoga and Arleigh Burke class.

The Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates were split between Bath Iron Works, Todd Pacific - San Pedro, and Todd Pacific - Seattle.

Fair enough. I figured since they did work on the Tico's they made some Spruance's as well.

[Webstral]

A minor wrinkle for anyone who is interested. There was no dry dock at Bath Iron Works in Bath in T2K. Until 2001, there was a subsidiary yard in Portland, ME where the company had a dry dock. They installed the sonar domes at this facility.

The floating dry dock at Bath seen on GoogleEarth wasn't in place until 2001.

So if you want a dry dock, you also have to secure Portland.

First District owns Bath, Portland, and Portsmouth from mid-1998 onward. One can see why Milgov, though royally pissed by RADM MacDowell's little coup de main, wants to stay on decent terms with the District. Aside from 43rd MP Brigade and possibly the Coast Guard command under Holsgirder in Narragansett Bay (RI), Milgov has few friends in New England. The state governments of Vermont at Burlington and New Hampshire at Manchester are in the Civgov camp, though this doesn't do much for Civgov. The Black Watch in southern Vermont is on bad terms with the 43rd, and therefore with Milgov. The City and Shire of Keene, NH is nominally in support of Civgov. The Isolationists in Providence want nothing to do with Milgov. The UBF is nominally in support of Civgov. The remaining surviving governments in Massachusetts have little to offer Milgov except food and shelter for small groups. The megapunks in Boston and southern New Hampshire obviously are no help to Milgov. The rising Blood Cross in northern Vermont, northern New Hampshire, and inland Maine also are a problem. In fact, one of Milgov's fears is that Civgov will find a way to unite Burlington, Manchester, the Cape and Islands (which are the stronghold of the UBF) and overpower First District, thus depriving Milgov of important assets. Anxiety about this very unlikely event has kept Milgov supporting the District at a higher level than might otherwise be expected. BIW factors strongly in a lot of peoples' thinking in Poseidon's Rifles.

[Legbreaker]

They're all good points there Web. I can't recall Milgov or Civgov having any significant naval or other assets anywhere along the east coast in any of the books. Most of the areas covered seem to imply there's a small presence, but struggling to survive against the overwhelming (comparatively) forces independent groups are fielding with little more than fishing and recreational boats they've thrown a few light weapons on.
There's certainly no frigates, corvettes, or even mine sweepers, etc anywhere to be found that I can recall, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, just that a) they're inactive/ineffective for some reason, or b) operating in areas not covered in the books. Option b doesn't seem too likely though given the books appear (to a non-American) to cover the more important areas.

[Olefin]

A Rock in Troubled Waters shows the MilGov assets that are at Cape May and also touches somewhat on Norfolk

Cape May has a Forrest Sherman DD and a CG WMEC that are both active and fully armed, Norfolk has two Forrest Sherman DD's - plus other ships most of which are the smaller ones as you detailed. There is also a tanker tied to the dock at Cape May that is empty. You also have to add in John Hancock tht is also at Norfolk.

Its a canon article out of Challenge Magazine - I have it at home and if you are interested I can put together the pages and post them here

I do have this one quote from the article that I posted earlier - the article took place early in 2001 and mentioned Bigelow shelling casinos at Atlantic City that had marauders in them and destroying three of them. It also mentioned that if the gold was recovered in Armies of the Night that Bigelow would be the ship that recovers it along with other forces at Cape May.

USS Bigelow (Forest Sherman/HuICClass): Seven of
this class of warship were mothballed at Philadelphia. Work
began early in January 1997 to bring them into service. Only
by working overtime with a greatly swollen work force were
five of them combat-ready by Thanksgiving, 1998.Two were
destroyed in port; two others were subsequently lost at sea,
presumably to enemy submarines. Of the surviving three,
two are based at Norfolk (Mamley DD 940 and Blandy DD
943) and one (Bigelow) at Cape May. They rarely put to sea,
due to a lack of fuel. Their last mission was escorting the
TF34 convoy in for the final third of the journey to Norfolk."

There are two other articles, Inland Waterway and Rifle River that also detail ships on the East Coast but I dont have them yet. From what I understand Rifle River has a CG WMEC as one of the ships.

There is also a reference in Troubled Waters to a dozen ships surviving after the Norfolk nuking that were in hiding in the Chesapeake Bay region

So that would give MilGov at least three DD, one DDG, and one corvette sized CG ship under their control (as well as the SSN Corpus Christi) on the East Coast that have fuel and armaments (but fuel is limited) and are in commission and the Coast Guard having at least one over corvette sized CG ship as well under independent control that has fuel and is in commission between Going Home, Last Submarine, Rifle River and A Rock in Troubled Waters plus a variety of smaller ships

oh and there is a sailing brig as well at Cape May that is pretty good sized and very well armed as well - she is actually used like a coastal defense ship

(from what I understand the articles in Challenge Magazine are considered canon sources - is that correct)

[Rainbow Six]

From memory I think the only Naval assets listed on the East Coast of the US are in Challenge - a small force (maybe half a dozen or so ships) in the New Jersey area (Cape May) and the Coastguard enclave covered in Rifle River.

I could be wrong but I don't think anything else is mentioned

Edit - just saw Olefin's post, which covers this in much more detail!

[Olefin]

they mention that two Forrest Sherman DD's are at Norfolk, one is at Cape May and that the CG WMEC at Cape May is going back to Norfolk soon

The DDG - i.e. John Hancock is from Going Home and the assumption is that she stayed at Norfolk once she got there

The sub - Corpus Christi - same thing after the submarine trilogy is over

and its bigger than a half dozen ships - they have various LCM's and some patrol boats as well that have been turned into monitors

They also have a large sailing ship that has had a turret mounted on her with a good sized gun and other armaments that is basically a coastal patrol/defense ship - about the size of a corvette or small destroyer if I remember right

I will post the description tonight when I get home - dont have that info with me right now

Rifle River has one WMEC as well but the way it is described the Coast Guard is only nominally answering to MilGov - it also occurs later than A Rock in Troubled Waters which occurs earlier in 2001

I have never seen Inland Waterway - not sure if there are any ships mentioned there at all - only seen the cover art for the article which shows what looks to be an armed USN patrol boat

I dont think there are any other canon articles that would detail ships

by the way it does say a dozen ships survived the nuking of Norfolk - so that would mean that at least a dozen USN ships were intact and active post nuke of Norfolk on the East Coast

and considering the Forrest Shermans werent ready till Thanksgiving 1998 that doesnt count those ships

[Webstral]

There's certainly no frigates, corvettes, or even mine sweepers, etc anywhere to be found that I can recall, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, just that a) they're inactive/ineffective for some reason, or b) operating in areas not covered in the books. Option b doesn't seem too likely though given the books appear (to a non-American) to cover the more important areas.

I've followed basically this philosophy. At the beginning of 2000, the District has only three combatants worth mentioning: USCGC Gallatin and two Bainbridge Island-class ships. The former packs a 76mm gun, while the latter bring 25mm guns to the fight. Frigates they are not. Well, I suppose Gallatin doubles as a frigate in a pinch. I haven't bothered to try to account for any of the other shipping that might have been operating out of northern coastal New England when the bombs fell. I've always operated on the principal that Milgov sent those assets elsewhere. We know, for instance, that some light units were sent to Europe in 1998 (I think). Whatever escort-type ships were operating out of the area can have gone that way.

[rcaf_777]

Landing Ship Tank Still Active

Landing Ship Tank Still Active

Here what I could dig up on LST still in use by the out break of the war

De Soto Country Class

In the late 1950s, many of LSTs of the De Soto County-class were constructed. These were an improved version over earlier WWII LSTs, with a high degree of habitability for the crew and embarked troops. Considered the "ultimate" design attainable with the traditional LST bow door configuration, they were capable of 17.5 knots (32.4 km/h).

USS Summit County (LST-1146) Venezuela
USS Wood County (LST-1178) US Reserve Fleet Beaumont TX
USS Litchfield County (LST-901) Panama Commercial Fleet
HMS Stalker (LST-3515) Portsmouth UK
USS LST-325 Greece
USS Buncombe County (LST-510) US
USS LST-393 US Commercial Fleet Sand Products Inc
USS Maricopa County (LST-938) Vietnam
USS Clarke County (LST-601) Indonesia
USS Clearwater County (LST-602) - Mexico
USS Dorchester (APB-46) US Commercial Fishing Fleet Settle
USS Dukes County (LST-735) Taiwan
USS Hampshire County (LST-819) Greece Commercial Fleet
USS Iredell County (LST-839) Indonesia
USS Iron County (LST-840) Tawian
USS Lincoln County (LST-898) Thailand
USS Pender County (LST-1080) South Korea
USS Sedgwick County (LST-1123) - Malaysia

The Philippine Navy received 20+ units of the LST Mk.2 starting in the late 1940s, and still have 7 units on their active list as of 2010. This includes BRP Laguna (LT-501) (ex-USS LST-230), BRP Zamboanga del Sur (LT-86) (ex-USS Marion County (LST-975), BRP Kalinga Apayao (LT-516) (ex-USS Garrett County (LST-786) and BRP Benguet (LT-507) (ex-USS Daviess County (LST-692). Many of these defected to the Philippine Navy after the far of South Vietnam.

Newport Class

Twenty ships of the Newport tank landing ship class were built to replace the traditional bow door design LST. The Newport class has higher speeds and trimmer lines than the LSTs of World War II. The vessels have two huge derricks used to extend and retract a bow ramp. The 110-foot (34 m) ramp has a 75-ton capacity. The Newport class is the first amphibious ship to be fitted with an internal side propulsion unit located below the waterline near the bow. The bow thruster allows the bow to be pushed from side to side while the stern remains nearly stationary. This class of LST also has a stern gate. It allows them to load and launch amphibious assault vehicles, and permits stern gate matings with Landing Craft Utility (LCU) units

USS Newport LST-1179 Sold to Mexico in 2001 form inactive reserve
USS Manitowoc LST-1180 Sold to Tawian in 2001 form inactive reserve
USS Sumter LST-1181 Sold to Tawian in 2000 form inactive reserve
USS Fresno LST-1182 Sold to Peru in 2009 from inactive reserve
USS Peoria LST-1183 Sunk, durring Fleet training exercise in 2004
USS Frederick LST-1184 Sold to Mexico in 2002 from inactive reserve
USS Schenectady LST-1185 Sunk durring Fleet training exercise in2004
USS Cayuga LST-1186 Sold to Brazil in 2001 from inactive reserve
USS Tuscaloosa LST-1187 Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility Pearl Harbor
USS Saginaw LST-1188 Sold to Australia in 1994, in refit 95-96
USS San Bernardino LST-1189 Sold to Chile in 1995
USS Boulder LST-1190 Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility Philadelphia, PA
USS Racine LST-1191 Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility Pearl Harbor
USS Spartanburg County LST-1192 Sold to Malaysia in 1995
USS Fairfax County LST-1193 Sold to Australia in 1994, in refit 95-96
USS La Moure County LST-1194 Sunk durring Fleet training exercise in 2001
USS Barbour County LST-1195 Disposed of in support of Fleet training exercise, 2004
USS Harlan County LST-1196 Sold to Span in 2000 from inactive reserve
USS Barnstable County LST-1197 Sold to Span in 1994
USS Bristol County LST-1198 Sold to Morocco in 1994

[Olefin]

by the way one thing I have been looking at is submarines that could possibly be operational for the US - but not nuclear ones

I can think of three off the top of my head

USS Tusk SS-426 and USS Cutlass SS-478 - both are still in commission in Taiwan - both are Balao class submarines and both have operational torpedo tubes - I could see the US buying them back in say 1998 or 1999 and having them rejoin the Pacific Fleet as subs operating around Korea and possibly eventually making their way to the US

I would have those two as the best prospect for operational US subs to join the Corpus Christi along with USS Dolphin AGSS-555

there are others as well

USS Pampanito SS-383 - i.e. the sub they used for Down Periscope - she is still operational at least for surface ops, has an operational periscope, engine and even one operational torpedo tube - she would need new screws but there are museum subs that have screws she could use - and the mod to her hull for tourist access was relatively minor and should permit shallow dives

Dolphin AGSS-555 - she was fully operational in the timeline and was a deep sea research sub that had one external torpedo tube that was used for deep sea testing - but could be used as a regular tube - she would have needed to have a snorkel added to operate her diesels underwater but she could be used as is with just the batteries for diving if she was just loitering - her one tube had to be externally loaded so its strictly one shot

USS Cod - SS-224 - she is a Gato class and had no holes cut in her hull and thus she can dive as well as she did back in the day. It would take work to get her back to fully operational -but she could be restored

[Olefin]

others that could be acquired would be from Turkey

The Turks had the following ships still in commission when WWIII began

Guppy IIA type (ex-USS Balao)

TCG Burakreis - USS SeaFox
TCG Muratreis - USS Razorback
TCG I. Inonu - USS Threadfin

Guppy III Type

TCG II Inonu - USS Corporal
TCG Canakkale - USS Cobbler

USS Tench Class

TCG Ulucalireis - USS Thornback
TCG Cerbe - USS Trutta

USS Tang Class

TCG Pirireis - USS Tang
TCG Hizirreis - USS Gudgeon

So you have nine total subs - I could see the US trying to get one or two back from Turkey if they are still afloat, especially as the Turks had newer subs in commission

[James Langham]

I would guess Turkey could still use them effectively. Subs should be ideal for use in the Eastern Med to bottle in the Soviets. The US would probably welcome this although after the destruction of the major fleets on both sides this might change and the US might want them back (although by then they would be very useful against Greece).

others that could be acquired would be from Turkey

The Turks had the following ships still in commission when WWIII began

Guppy IIA type (ex-USS Balao)

TCG Burakreis - USS SeaFox
TCG Muratreis - USS Razorback
TCG I. Inonu - USS Threadfin

Guppy III Type

TCG II Inonu - USS Corporal
TCG Canakkale - USS Cobbler

USS Tench Class

TCG Ulucalireis - USS Thornback
TCG Cerbe - USS Trutta

USS Tang Class

TCG Pirireis - USS Tang
TCG Hizirreis - USS Gudgeon

So you have nine total subs - I could see the US trying to get one or two back from Turkey if they are still afloat, especially as the Turks had newer subs in commission

[Olefin]

by the way having these in US service doesnt contradict canon in any way - while it did say the last operational American submarine, that doesnt mean that there could be ones either being put back in service or that could have been bought or transferred later

or who because of fuel or lack of weapons are no longer operational

i.e. a submarine with no deck gun and no torps is basically a patrol boat that cant conduct anythign other than move on her own power - in a strict sense she is not an operational boat that can perform patrols and sink enemy ships

or they could be operational - but not able to get home due to fuel limitations - so they are confined to the Med or Korea - and thus are not part of the USN based out of Norfolk