Recommissioned US Navy ships

[Legbreaker]

IIRC from the example of the Atlantic Conveyor, a locked-down stack of containers can form a suitable landing pad...

Exactly what I was thinking. Weld on a few extra tie down points and you'd have little problem strapping the helicopter into place.

Alternatively, it's possible the helicopter was piloted by Germans and simply returned to land after dropping off the rearguard.

[Olefin]

I had forgotten all about the Atlantic Conveyor - and actually in a way opens up a way for their to be "aircraft carriers" that are still operational but non-traditional ones - i.e. ships like that operating either helos or VTOL aircraft like Ospreys and Harriers

and considering the lack of air opposition in much of the world even a couple of MD500 helos armed with unguided missiles would give you a big advantage

[Webstral]

Again, I'm no Navy guy, but I do believe that operating helicopters off a ship requires something very different than transporting helicopters on a ship. Some sort of sheltered work space would be required for maintenance. Other activities might well require below-decks space. HMS Ocean is a dedicated helicopter carrier. Her design reflects what the Royal Navy considers to be mandatory for sustained operations. Again, though, I have a very sketchy idea of what it takes to keep a dozen helos in the air on an ongoing basis.

[Olefin]

not talking about a sustained carrier - I mean an emergency carrier - i.e. you need make a landing and you need air support but no carrier available - a container ship could give you a way to get a few helos or VTOl aircraft there and be able to use them in the landing - obviously of limited utility for any sustained ops - but it woudlnt be sustained mainly for a limited duration for a specific mission

[James1978]

Scads / ARAPAHO

Back in the early 1980s, some British companies came up with SCADS - Shipborne Containerized Air Defense System. Basically it was a kit of 100 cargo containers pre-fitted for different mission support task, with a runway laid over the containers. They claimed a ship could be converted in 48 hours.

You can find an image of the proposal here.

The USN had a similar program called ARAPAHO that they tested in 1982 on the MV Export Leader. The deck was stressed to hold a CH-47. The RN leased the equipment in and installed in on the MV Astronomer for service in the Falklands.

RESOURCES
* ARAPAHO at GlobalSecurity.org

* Merchant Carriers and Sky Hooks, Flight Global 15 January 1983

* Arapaho Lives On, Flight Global, 11 June 1983

[raketenjagdpanzer]

The problem with "hey fly planes or helos off a cargo ship" is that your planes have to be navalized in the first place. Salt air does horrific things to unprotected metal surfaces...

[Olefin]

and there are lots of navalized helos and airplanes out there - and keep in mind they can be protected - the UK sent RAF Harriers to the Falklands on the Atlantic Conveyor and a RAF CH-47 - and they flew off quite well after the long trip

[boogiedowndonovan]

The USN had a similar program called ARAPAHO that they tested in 1982 on the MV Export Leader. The deck was stressed to hold a CH-47. The RN leased the equipment in and installed in on the MV Astronomer for service in the Falklands.

RESOURCES
* ARAPAHO at GlobalSecurity.org

* Merchant Carriers and Sky Hooks, Flight Global 15 January 1983

* Arapaho Lives On, Flight Global, 11 June 1983

Don't know if anyone is familar with the old Harpoon computer game, but the North Atlantic convoy scenarios included Arapaho ships with ASW helos.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

and there are lots of navalized helos and airplanes out there - and keep in mind they can be protected - the UK sent RAF Harriers to the Falklands on the Atlantic Conveyor and a RAF CH-47 - and they flew off quite well after the long trip

Oh I know; they were wrapped up and so forth. I just meant that a given aircraft isn't necessarily fit for use on a water-borne platform just because it is physically capable of take-off and landing from a ship.

Although with that said in T2k you probably have more aircraft than you have pilots and fuel so something like an AH-6 or OH58D might well be considered "disposable"...

[Legbreaker]

Although with that said in T2k you probably have more aircraft than you have pilots and fuel so something like an AH-6 or OH58D might well be considered "disposable"...

I'd have thought it would be the other way around.
Aircraft require parts to be repaired. A Pilot can heal given time.
Aircraft require specialised fuel to function. A Pilot can eat rats if they have to.
A damaged aircraft in the air tends to fall out of the sky rather heavily. Pilots tend to have ejection seats and parachutes.

[Olefin]

figured it would be fun to resurrect this thread

I would add the USS Oklahoma City to the list of ships that were brought out of mothballs for sure. At the time of her storage she was still operational, fully fitted out with flagship accommodations and communications gear. She was supposed to get extensive upgrades but due to cutbacks to the military she was instead stored in 1979 in the reserve fleet.

Given the need to get the ship into operation as quickly as possible she most likely would have been brought back as a pure gun cruiser - she still had one fully operational Mark 16 turret with three 6 inch guns and one Mark 32 mount with two 5 inch guns.

June 1997

As naval casualties mount the USN begins to reactivate useable ships form the Reserve Fleet. The guided missile cruiser Oklahoma City is pulled out of storage in June of 1997 from Suisun Bay and sent north to the Bremerton shipyards to be brought back to fully operational status. As she is needed back in service as quickly as possible the decision is made to bring her back as a gun cruiser only.

Parts are sent with her that have been removed from other light cruisers that were refitted into missile cruisers, including replacement gun barrels for her six and five inch guns. Parts needed for her engine room are obtained from several sources including the USS Little Rock, which is a museum ship in Buffalo NY.

TDM

The refit of the Oklahoma City, almost 50 percent completed, is halted due to the breakdown of civilian authority after the nuclear strikes in Washington State. A skeleton crew continues to remain aboard her, both to guard her and to keep working as they can to finish the job. As the Soviets begin their drive on Seattle all military resources are dedicated to stopping that drive, putting all work at the shipyard on the back burner.

June 2000

With the Soviet drive stopped and fighting having stopped in the Pacific Northwest, work is started again on the Oklahoma City. She is fitted with several .50 caliber machine guns as part of the refit for use against targets that aren't worth a 5 or 6 inch shell.

March 2001

The Oklahoma City is re-commissioned into the USN and readied for her first mission, which will be to attack the Soviets who are on dug in on Queen Charlotte Island in order to remove the last threat to the Pacific Northwest from Soviet forces.

[Matt Wiser]

Oelfin, thanks for the OKC: you just gave me a ship that can be introduced in the Red Dawn timeline.

[James1978]

Oklahoma City was actually at Bremerton until @ 1992, when she was moved to Suisun Bay.

So for RDverse, no need to move her.

In T2K, if she was still moved south in 1992, I think it more likely she'd be towed the short distance to Mare Island NSY than all the way north to Bremerton.

One thought though. She was stricken in 1979. So just what preservation measures were taken and what condition she's in by 1996/97 is an interesting question. By contrast, Des Moines and Salem were weren't struck until the early 1990s. Having said that, after moving to Suisun Bay,her hull was repaired and she was modified into a test platform and was occasionally towed out to see for tests.

[Olefin]

Bremerton would probably have had the better facilities to refit her on the West Coast. She was still in pretty good shape when she was put in mothballs in 1979 as compared to many other ships that went into storage - they were about to do a full ten year extension on her and propulsion upgrades as well as weapon upgrades when they decided to mothball her due to congress cutting back on the military. Bringing her back as a gun cruiser and flagship with no missile systems wouldn't have been that hard.

[rcaf_777]

Very good. Do you have hull numbers and names for the destroyers And how many Ashevilles do you figure are left

Asheville Class Motor Gunboat

PGM-84 USS Asheville - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985.

PGM-85 USS Gallup Decommissioned in 1977 and placed in reserve, transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk in 1992

PGM-86 USS Antelope - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency 17 January 1978, Active as of 2001

PGM-87 USS Ready - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985

PGM-88 USS Crockett - Transferred to the Environmental Protection Agency 17 January 1978, and scrapped in 1994

PGM-89 USS Marathon - Transferred to the Massachusetts Maritime Academy 11 April 1977, Broken up in 1985

PGM-90 Canon - Decommissioned in 1977 and placed in reserve, transferred to Naval Research Center Carderock, MD as a parts hulk in 1992

PGM-92 Tacoma Sold to Columbia on 4 December 1995, Active

PGM-93 Welch Sold to Columbia on 12 April 1995, Active

PGM-94 Chehalis - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Athena, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL

PGM-95 Defiance Sold to Turkey 11 June 1973, destroyed by fire 11 April 1985

PGM-96 Benicia Sold to South Korea on 2 October 1971, returned to the US in 1991, scrapped 1998

PGM-97 Surprise Sold to Turkey 11 June 1973, Active

PGM-98 Grand Rapids - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Athena II, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL

PGM-99 Beacon - Transferred to Greece, 22 November 1989, in service till 1995

PGM-100 Douglas Rapids - Converted to a Research Vessel and renamed R/V Lauren, still active Homeport is Naval Surface Warfare Center, Panama City FL, Sunk as a target in 2008

PGM-101 Green Bay - Transferred to Greece, 22 November 1989, in service till 1995

Source: NavSource Online, Motor Gunboat/Patrol Gunboat Photo Archive

http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/11idx.htm

As you can see there are only six boats left in the US and two of those are been used a part hulks, but five of them are still US Navy and could brought back to active duty. The sixth boat is with the EPA and would like require a fair bit of modication as most of lab and other Science equipment would have to be removed.