ORBAT links

[kato13]

Figured we could use a general ORBAT link thread. Both real world and gaming ORBATs are welcome.

Found this link today to the Real world 1989 Nato/European orbat.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO-Order-of-Battle-1989

Seems pretty thorough. It even includes non aligned European countries like Austria, Ireland, Finland and Switzerland.

You have to register to download but it is pretty easy.


Additional ORBAT threads

French Orbat

[chico20854]

A few more:

first, a shameless plug for my web site, which has a bunch of Twilight-specific orbats: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeedox4/ There are also air force and navy orbats on the Air Force orbat and Naval War pages.

Some other pages in a variety of languages:

http://www.reocities.com/littlegreenmen.geo/misc.htm

http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~antenna/m2k/oob/index.htm

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dheb/2300/Admin/Index6.htm

http://www.samberg.de/strukturen/index.html

http://www.scramble.nl/airforces.htm

http://dragan.freeservers.com/istorija/sfrj.htm

USSR:

http://www.soldat.ru/files/f/000000d8.pdf

http://desantura.ru/forums/index.php

http://www8.brinkster.com/vad777/sssr-89-91/sssr.htm

http://www.modely.cz/airshow/redstars.htm

Bulgaria:

http://forum.boinaslava.net/showthread.phpt=7695

Czechozlovakia:

http://armada.vojenstvi.cz/

http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.phpshowtopic=19844

Hungary:

http://forum.index.hu/Article/showArticlet=9133912&la=51202149

http://www.orbat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.phpt=73

Poland:

http://www.serwis-militarny.net/link.phpk=sources&plik=lwp1986.zip

http://www.tdg.nu/indexoobmodern.html

http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.phpshowtopic=19844

and the massive NATO 1989 Orbat being worked on at tank-net.org:

http://www.microarmormayhem.com/NATO_ORDER_OF_BATTLE_mod_8.doc

[Graebarde]

Excellent work gentlemen.
Grae

[Graebarde]

http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/nato/warsawpact.html

This link goes with the NATO OOB above. It also has the same OOB that is easier to download IMO since you don't have to join anything.

Grae

[chico20854]

http://orbat.com/site/history/histor...arsawpact.html

This link goes with the NATO OOB above. It also has the same OOB that is easier to download IMO since you don't have to join anything.

Grae

Actually Grae, the orbats on orbat.com you reference are the daddies of the tank-net effort. The folks on tank-net have been working on updating the orbat.com ones for a few years and are light-years ahead in accuracy. The most accurate English-language Soviet orbat is in the orbat.com forums (which were recently spam-attacked, go to the last page of the general history forum), where long ago I reposted a translation of the first of the USSR sources I listed above. You can browse tank-net.org as a guest.

I'll have the Pact western, northwestern and southwestern TVDs detailed (regiment/battalion-level) orbat done hopefully by year end, along with a revised division and army-level worldwide Pact orbat to go on my site.

[Raellus]

I would love to see an ORBAT for the v1.0 T2K reunified Germany. Creating such an ORBAT would be quite a challenge. One would have to start with a projected West German ORBAT, then add a projected DDR one, accounting for unit attrition/destruction on the China Front pre-97. Also, to make it even more complicated, I would assume some E. German units, especially Border Guard units, would stay loyal to the WTO. And then there's the matter of material incompatability.

Any such thing out there Chico, you busy

[Graebarde]

Thanks Chico. Before I get there however, do they, or anyone, have the OOB for such as China, the Koreas, Iraq and PG nations for the 1989 period I have the ISS BoP for then, but it is really generalized. Wondered if anyone had done the numbers game (ie regimental numbers and above, or at least brigades and divisions)

Tanks again,
Grae

[chico20854]

I would love to see an ORBAT for the v1.0 T2K reunified Germany. Creating such an ORBAT would be quite a challenge. One would have to start with a projected West German ORBAT, then add a projected DDR one, accounting for unit attrition/destruction on the China Front pre-97. Also, to make it even more complicated, I would assume some E. German units, especially Border Guard units, would stay loyal to the WTO. And then there's the matter of material incompatability.

Any such thing out there Chico, you busy

Here's the short version at the start of the war (before the integration of the 2 armies). We don't have the regimental/battalion-level unit ID's and equipment in a format that's easy to put up here. We assume that the border guard units facing Berlin and the FRG go to NATO, the ones along the Czech and Polish borders desert or are destroyed. The extensive paramilitary units (Stasi, Riot Police and Kampfgruppe of the Working Class) stay communist but are really victims of the reunification - hated by their friends and family, hunted by their countrymen and distrusted by their Soviet masters, given menial or suicidal tasks. This orbat also leaves out the very extensive rear area security apparatus in the FRG, which had endless security platoons, companies and battalions assigned to static defense duties. (For an idea of the scale, check out tank-net's Bundeswehr orbat thread, a truly insane effort!)

Berlin Police Infantry Rgt

FRG I Korps
1 Panzer Div
3 Panzer Div
7 Panzer Div
24 Luftlande Bde
16 Attack Helo Rgt
I Pioneer Rgt

II Korps
1Geb Jager Div
4 PanzerGren Div
10 Panzer Div
25 Luftlande Bde
26 Attack Helo Rgt
II Pioneer Rgt

III Korps
2 PanzerGren Div
5 Panzer Div
12 Panzer Div
26 Luftlande Bde
36 Attack Helo Rgt
III Pioneer Rgt

Schleswig-Holstein Territorial Command
6 PanzerGren Div
Schleswig-Holstein Field Arty Rgt

I Home Defense Command
51 PanzerGren Bde
61 Jager Bde
71 Jager Rgt
81 Jager Rgt
SH Pioneer Rgt

II Home Defense Command
52 PanzerGren Bde
62 Jager Bde
72 Jager Rgt
82 Jager Rgt
72 Pioneer Rgt

III Home Defense Command
53 PanzerGren Bde
63 Jager Bde
73 Jager Rgt
83 Jager Rgt
93 Jager Rgt
73 Pioneer Rgt

IV Home Defense Command
54 PanzerGren Bde
64 Jager Bde
74 Jager Rgt
84 Jager Rgt
94 Jager Rgt
74 Pioneer Rgt

V Home Defense Command
55 PanzerGren Bde
65 Jager Bde
75 Jager Rgt
85 Jager Rgt
75 Pioneer Rgt

VI Home Defense Command
56 PanzerGren Bde
66 Jager Bde
76 Jager Rgt
86 Jager Rgt
96 Jager Rgt
76 Pioneer Rgt

NVA 3rd Army
7 Panzer Div
4 Motor Rifle Div
11 Motor Rifle Div
20 Motor Rifle Div
3 Field Arty Rgt
3 Pioneer Rgt
47 Attack Helo Rgt
3 Anti-Tank Rgt

NVA 5th Army
1 Motor Rifle Div
8 Motor Rifle Div
9 Panzer Div
10 Motor Rifle Div
5 Field Arty Rgt
5 Pioneer Rgt
34 Attack Helo Rgt
5 Anti-Tank Rgt

NVA Command
Grenzkommand Mitte (Infantry Div)
6 Motor Rifle Div
17 Motor Rifle Div
19 Motor Rifle Div
40 Field Arty Bde
40 Abn Rgt
18 Marine Rgt
57 Attack Helo Rgt
1 Anti-Tank Rgt

Grenzkommando Nord
6 Border Guard Bde
6 Border Guard Rgt
8 Border Guard Rgt
20 Border Guard Rgt
24 Border Guard Rgt

Grenzkommando Sud
1 Border Guard Rgt
3 Border Guard Rgt
4 Border Guard Rgt
9 Border Guard Rgt
10 Border Guard Rgt
15 Border Guard Rgt

[Raellus]

Thanks, Chico!

[Legbreaker]

Has anyone got, or know where to find the 1990 Orbat for New Zealand! My googlefu is failing me.

[Louied]

Leg,
Give me about 24 hours I might have it on my PC at home. Off the top of my head.
- 2 reg. Inf Bns (one always in Malaysia), 6 TA Inf Bns
- 3 TA Armd Sqns (M113's & Scorpion CVR (T))
- 2 RNZA Regts, mixed reg & TA

I believe the war plan was to form a Bde Grp from these units to serve outside NZ ( numbered "7" as that was the next number in-line. 1-3 were from the Great War NZEF, 4-6 were from the 2nd NZEF)

I'll PM you with my notes if you need them.

[Legbreaker]

Brilliant! Thanks.
I'm working on final touches to Australian and New Zealand troops which may have been sent to Korea. It's interesting to note the UN troops came under attack from North Korea within a few days of NATO troops (not including Germans) crossed into Poland. My thoughts are North Korea saw an opportunity and jumped at it.

[Louied]

Leg,

Sorry only have it from 2004.

My notes for 1990 are the following:

NZ Army

After the 1983 Review the Army prepared to field the following

1) The Ready Reaction Force which was a Bn Grp based on 2/1 RNZIR

2) The Integrated Expansion Force (17 units)which was Bde Grp sized would be able to follow up 90 days after mobilization. It would consist of the following units

-3 Inf Bns formed from the 2 thru 7 Bns of the RNZIR (all TF)
-1 RNZAC Sqn formed from 1)Queen Alexandra's Sqn (Scorpion CVR (T)) RF
2)Waikato/Wellington East Coast Sqn (M113A1) RF/TF
3)1st NZ Scottish Sqn (M113A1) RF/TF
4)2nd NZ Scottish Sqn (M113A1) TF

- 16 Field Rgt, RNZA
HQ, 162 Fd Bty, & LAD RF
11(A) & 22 (D) Fd Btys TF
4 (G) Md Bty TF
43 LAD Bty RF/TF

(This left 3 Fd Rgt as a training cadre with 31 (B) & 32 (E) Fd Btys)

-1 Field Sqn, RNZE (HQ & 1 Fd Tp RF: 2 & 3 Tps TF)

- 1 Transport Sqn, RNZCT (HQ & 11 Tp RF, 12, 13, & 14 Tps TF)

There was also a Force Maintinence Group of 19 units to provide logistical support to both forces.

[Legbreaker]

Damn!
Well, better than nothing I suppose...
Thanks.

[boogiedowndonovan]

cool Louied, thanks for the info. I've been looking for a New Zealand orbat as well.

Here's an interesting tidbit about 2/1 RNZIR from wikipedia (insert link tool isn't working for me so url follows)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_New_Zealand_Infantry_Regiment

"In 1989 the 2/1st Battalion designated A Company as Ranger Company and trained in several specialist fields, being cliff assault, boat assault, helo rappelling, and parachuting this was in effect for less than 1 year and reverted to A Company in 1990 although training in the above courses was still undertaken as late as 1995. Officially A Company or POE Company (Point of Entry Company) was staffed exclusively by Parachute Trained volunteer's (manned at approximately 120 soldiers, Company strength trained at Parachute Training School Unit based in Wheneuapai, Auckland staffed by RNZAF) exchanges took place between other parachute allied countries (Exercise Long look) including the Parachute Regiment and Commandos of the United Kingdom and 3rd Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (3 RAR) until in 1997 this role was also stripped from A Company which then reverted to a normal infantry company."


So, in the T2k timeline, NZ would have a company's worth of light infantry that performs similar function as US Army Rangers.