T2K Fortification

[Mohoender]

I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.

[headquarters]

Dubrovnik

I have no time now today but I start this just as a beginning. I'll put more posts ASAP.

I disagreed with prisons as efficient defensive positions but I found the point very interesting. What about other fortifications France has plenty and I'll try to come up with exemples soon. What about other countries Even U.S. has some (may be more that what I think) as I visited an old fort in Maine back in 2003.

Marc, as I know, many cities and towns of Spain retain some kind of fortification. Can you give some exemples of this

Many cities and towns in Portugal will have some strong defense. In fact, the portuguese army still run all the coastal forts that you have in the country, often renting them to private business.

I think that most will be used again and they might make formidable strongholds. Religious buildings can also be an option: just remember Monte Cassino in Italy.

I would love to know more about this, if any of you has some kind of informations, please feel free.

My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course

[Mohoender]

My recent post sabout fortress like structures being able to repel attackers etc were largely inspired by the city of Dubrovnik who held out siege and attacks by the Jugoslav army in the early 1990s .

Now- this army was vastly superior in firepower,manpower,etc - but it seems attacking a built up area is a risky business.

It takes a concentrated effort and the willingness to take casualties to do it -meaning most t2k factions/commanders would vote a no to go for it -

imho of course

Agree entirely. I would love to find some info on what cities still have some. I didn't know about Dubrovnik. That's one .

[copeab]

Worth remembering that CAS and massed artillery are mostly gone in 2000, so "obsolete" fortifications are once again effective.

[Marc]

Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, dont lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of oeInfanteria de Marina. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, its a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Pe+-iscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed oeThe Cid, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html

[Adm.Lee]

A frined of mine once pointed out that enclosed shopping malls (the big ones) might make great forts. Some have their own power supplies, plenty of storage, and the fields of fire (parking lots) are already cleared!

[jester]

There are many forts in the US.

Remember up until after WWII we had active coastal artillery batteries that are fairly sizable.

In my Arctic Raiders Campaign, I had the players training at one such place that had been turned into a recreation area and park. But when the war broke out, it was militarized, and they moved troops into the underground galleries.

We also have a good number of Civil War Era Forts, some earlier forts mostly on the eastcoast.

An example of two on the west coast are, The Presidio and Alcatraz both build as early Spanish Forts.

Here are some links to some of the forts we hace localy:

http://www.cdsg.org/HDCRdata/stevensx.htm

http://www.ftmac.org/index.htm

The above was my playground after dark, especialy the portions that where no longer used and closed

http://www.laokay.com/TheGunBatteriesofSanPedro.htm

And then they also had Nike Zues Missile Silos:

These are all over the Los Angeles area as well as the country.

http://www.nps.gov/goga/nike-missile-site.htm

Further, after BRAC, the Base Realignment and Closure of the 90s and early 2000s, there are a good number of large and small bases and facilities that are dormant, and would be still standing in the 2013 Twilight War.



And then, you also have the ability to turn so many places into forts. A ski lodge that's primary access is via a cable car or a narrow trail up a steep slope. I know of three places within an hour of me where this would be the problem.


Isolated communities on penninsulas and islands would be an easy place to defend.

LARGE Buildings would be good, like a Hospital, or even large building groups that one finds in larger cities, where several tall buildings surround a general courtyard.

those are just some ideas off the top of my head.

[headquarters]

hehe..good times

Bona nit!!

Dubrovnik! I remember Dubrovnik as really beatiuful city, the true jewel of the dalmatian coast. I would say you that, if possible, dont lose any future chance to visit de Croatian coast.

I was in Dubrovnik in the summer of 99, during my only two free days in my tour of duty with the Spanish Parachute Brigade (BRIPAC) in Bosnia-Herzegovina. The first day, (finally wearing civilian clothes after so much time and without any equipment!!) I went all over the wall under the summer sun, with a group of friends of oeInfanteria de Marina. A high, strong and impressive wall, conceived for the black powder age. A good example of poliorcetic in a coastal city.

As Mohoender says, walled cities were common in all the Iberian Peninsula. But the presence of a well preserved wall in the present day depends, in great part, of the development of the city. Those cities which have suffered an stagnation period preserve their walls nearly intact. Others cities, like Barcelona, have urbanized, centuries ago, spaces beyond the walls (extra-muros) and only minor fragments exists in the original city centers. From the point of view of a modern observer, its a shame, but, after all, it was the progress. In the Gothic cathedral square of Barcelona, an impressive medieval wall fragment can still be observed, with roman foundations and modern era modifications. A wall constructed by Romans that has known the armies of Muslims, Franks, Spanish, Catalans, Frenches, Austrians, and others...

I think that the city of Avila is, perhaps, the most important walled city in Spain. Morella is an impressive walled city, at the top of a mountain; Pe+-iscola, in the Mediterraean coast, were was filmed oeThe Cid, with Charlton Heston ... And a lot of others. The small walled medieval village in Peratallada deserves a visit, too. Of course, the Spanish poliorcetics is strongly focused to the fight against the muslims. But internal conflicts and international wars have been important factors. Europe is Europe...

And out of Spain, for my experience, I must recommend you Dubrovnik, Carcassone and Beaune.

Here you found a link of an association of walled cities:

http://www.walledtowns.com/wtfc/map.html

The 60 hr leave is how I got see Dubrovnik too! ( SFOR I&II) .We drove down from Modrica through the mountains ( dont see how they could invade rough there ) and there it was - the most beautiful city I have seen so far . My favourite spot is rthe bar called "cold drinks" thats nestled on the cliffs outside the wall on the sea side -where th elocal bravos dive of th e30 foot cliff and sneer at us tourists that dont dare ..(hehe croats..such children).

Any ways - I agree with you -beautiful gem of the mediterranean .
and that walled cities are once again more powerful in the t2k world .

And that Europe is Europe

Norway have little in the way of fortifications,it was poor up until 50 years ago , and in the old days most were built from wood which is plentiful here.

Sad - I love fortificatons .

there are a few though -this one is my favourite :

http://www.nasjonalefestningsverk.no/fredriksten/Nyheter/1085775838.05

but there are several other cool ones there too. ( I see they have omitted the fort in my old town..goverment bastards always trying to hold the South Province down...

And after all - what is a campaign without a good castle ,ey

[Targan]

There are fortified gun emplacements dating back to early last century on Rottnest Island off Perth, the city where I live. They were built as coastal defences for sinking enemy ships and there are extensive tunnels linking the emplacements to each other and to magazines, cut right into the limestone of the island. Unfortunately Rottnest has no fresh water and annual rainfall around Perth is pretty unreliable so any military presence out there would need resupply from the mainland.

Rottnest was named by Dutch explorers (it means Rats Nest) after the quokkas that live there. Quokkas look like itty bitty fat kangaroos about a foot high with bald tails and are incredibly cute and friendly.

[Mohoender]

Now I have some times and here are some exemples for France. You'll find several coastal forts such as the one in Antibes: the "Fort Carr". Some will be found inland also and several fort from WWI surrender Paris.

Carcassone is a good exemple but several other cities (smaller cities for the most part) will have citadels or fortified harbor such as St Malo.

I also put a view of Carcassone and one from two castles

[ChalkLine]

Vauban era to Brialmont era fortifications make excellent T2k fortresses.

The cannon of the era had a range similar to modern assault rifles, and the design of the fortresses make the attacker subject at every turn to flanking fire from a weapon with this range. A few mortars and GPMGs for direct fire and fortifications such as this are near impregnable.

[chico20854]

For my fellow SFOR/IFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia, if you were in the NORDPOL AO you may remember the Vranduk fortress on the way from Doboj to Zenica (2 of the larger shitholes in that accursed land):

http://medam-photogarden.blogspot.com/2008/07/vranduk-fortress.html

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=reHpjSGZQPg

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/pb/57b99/

[Marc]

For my fellow SFOR/IFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia, if you were in the NORDPOL AO you may remember the Vranduk fortress on the way from Doboj to Zenica (2 of the larger shitholes in that accursed land):

http://medam-photogarden.blogspot.com/2008/07/vranduk-fortress.html

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=reHpjSGZQPg

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/pb/57b99/

I was based around Trebinje area, in the SE, so I've never been near those fortifications. I remember to have seen a pair of little fortified structures nearby, possibly ottoman. Sadly it was not the more appropriate moment for a visit and I must recognize that my historical curiosity was still in start-up phase.

Anyway, It has been a nice surprise to meet here more members of the IFOR/SFOR forces. Best regards, people.

[jester]

What about a fort, or a hidden gun emplacement akin to a mountain top tunnel fortress similiar to the emplacements from "Guns of Navarone" And now I am thinking of a campaign based along those lines, akin to Eagles Dare and Guns of Navarone, a isolated mountain top fortress, with somekind of long range weapons, maybe heacy 203mm mortars or howitzers maybe a few chemical rounds. A fortress that is built into a flat topped mountain with several mine entrances that are now turned into gun emplacements. The inside was mined out maybe there is still some mineral of whatever you choose to have for the evil band who have taken residence and turned the once working/abandoned mine into a mountain fortress.

There is only 1 long narrow winding road up to the top of the mountain and it passes the several entrances that are fortified.

The large guns control the region for 20 miles in any direction, which includes farmland, and a major river and transportation route. And the Colonel who commands the mountain fortress now exacts tribute from the city that is on the river, the community at the base of the mountain where many of the miners and support personel lived and the farmlands around.

The PCs mission is to infiltrate the mountain and destroy the hold the fort and evil colonel have over the entire region.

<Sorry for stealling the thread, the idea came with me and I had to put it to papper before it was lost>

Now I must work on this idea and expand the campaign some more.

[Targan]

Nice adventure idea Jester. Unfortunately in my campaign or, say, Headquarters' the most likely end result would be that the fortress continues being used to dominate the surrounding communities, only the people in charge would change. It must be nice for those of you GMs whose players like playing the good guys.