Australia/New Zealand in the Twilight War

[Targan]

(Split from New Russian BMPs)

Australia has become a powerful military power but that is probably because I consider Australian to be really brave.

Well I'm not going to argue with that . Goes equally for New Zealand troops too BTW. Maori troops in particular, they fight with ferocity similar to Gurkhas from what I have heard. There was a battalion of Maori troops that were sent on a one way deep penetration raid on Crete during WWII, absolute killing machines.

I expect that during the Twilight War Australia and New Zealand would become even more closely allied than they normally are, forming a sort of Pacific version of the European Union along with Papua New Guinea and various South Pacific nations.

[Mohoender]

Well I'm not going to argue with that . Goes equally for New Zealand troops too BTW. Maori troops in particular, they fight with ferocity similar to Gurkhas from what I have heard. There was a battalion of Maori troops that were sent on a one way deep penetration raid on Crete during WWII, absolute killing machines.

I expect that during the Twilight War Australia and New Zealand would become even more closely allied than they normally are, forming a sort of Pacific version of the European Union along with Papua New Guinea and various South Pacific nations.

Actually in my game they have formed a union also including the Fiji islands and Tonga.

[jester]

Actually in my game they have formed a union also including the Fiji islands and Tonga.

I could see that happening, I ccould see them becoming the dominate force for some kind of union of Pacific Islands and maybe even some of the Islands in the Malay Peninsula, I am guessing Indonesia would have some kind of revolution with its thousands of islands breaking into semi autonomous groups taking one side or the other.

And here is another question;

What would Austrailia do in reguarding Korea and the North Invading with either the aid of Russia or China

Or China making a move on Hong Kong

[Targan]

And here is another question;

What would Austrailia do in reguarding Korea and the North Invading with either the aid of Russia or China

Or China making a move on Hong Kong

In the original Twilight timeline Australia would support South Korea, the US and the UK against any moves by China and or North Korea. We did in the Korean War (in which Australians fought with great bravery) and we would do it again.

Now or in the near future however the situation would be much more difficult for Australia because China is by far and away our biggest trading partner and our current Prime Minister speaks fluent (and I mean FLUENT) Mandarin and is a great friend of China's. But in the case of all out war we'd always side with the USA and its allies, and in any case Japan is Australia's second biggest trading partner and we know which side our bread is buttered on.

In the traditional Twilight timeline Australia is involved in its own nasty little war with Indonesia after Indonesia invades first Papua New Guinea and then northern Australia. IRL if the Indonesians invaded Australia I would do anything in my power to join the fight. Anything.

[copeab]

IRL if the Indonesians invaded Australia I would do anything in my power to join the fight. Anything.

Well, probably not wave an AK-47 over your head and scream "WOLVERINES!!!"

[Targan]

Well, probably not wave an AK-47 over your head and scream "WOLVERINES!!!"

No, I'd wave a Steyr over my head and scream "WOMBATS!!!" Heh heh.

[jester]

LOL!!!! And the wombat is such a fierce creature!

It kinda reminds me of the spoof Delta Farce where they are moving out to get on the plane, the redneck asks the young tall strong looking soldier,

"Who ya with"

The young strong soldier replies with pride,

"101st Sceamin EAGLES! What about you"

The Redneck played by the cvharacter Larry the Cableguy replies,

"64th Georgia, the sleeping marmots."

The line was worth a chuckle!

And now to hijack since Wombats came up,

What about personal pets and mascots in the T2K world

Somehow I can just picture some Aussies liberating a Kangaroo from a Zoo as they roam the battlefields of Europe.

[headquarters]

pets

LOL!!!! And the wombat is such a fierce creature!

It kinda reminds me of the spoof Delta Farce where they are moving out to get on the plane, the redneck asks the young tall strong looking soldier,

"Who ya with"

The young strong soldier replies with pride,

"101st Sceamin EAGLES! What about you"

The Redneck played by the cvharacter Larry the Cableguy replies,

"64th Georgia, the sleeping marmots."

The line was worth a chuckle!

And now to hijack since Wombats came up,

What about personal pets and mascots in the T2K world

Somehow I can just picture some Aussies liberating a Kangaroo from a Zoo as they roam the battlefields of Europe.

my party kept a deranged and chemically damaged cannibal in a steel cage for some time . For scientific reasons ..right..

Australia could do well if it wasnt hit badly by the exchange of misiles.It has a unique location ,a good deal of resources -including agricultural - and maybe together with New Zeeland could carry on to some extent as an organized country -although hardships and stern internal security measures probably would be needed.

As for Indonesia invading -it somehow seems that if the Imperial Japanese Forces couldnt do it -the Indonesians wouldnt get any closer than locking themselves in a stalemate in PNG -just like in the 1940s.

If anything ,I would guess that Indonesia would be invaded by Australia/New Zeeland/Pacific allies to secure oilfields and stabilize regions of strategic interests.Indonesia would probably submerge in a multitude of civil wars over religious,ethnic,political and commercial interests.

All imho -of course .

Targan -where is that write up on the region you said we could have before

[Mohoender]

Australia could do well if it wasnt hit badly by the exchange of misiles.It has a unique location ,a good deal of resources -including agricultural - and maybe together with New Zeeland could carry on to some extent as an organized country -although hardships and stern internal security measures probably would be needed.

I'm not that negative about internal security. All the Australian and Kiwis that I met were tough and nice people, proud of their country. The wild zone I put in Australia are more for regular neglect than from unrest. The government would not bother controlling all of the vast interior desert. Moreover, I can't imagine someone already living in a remote area move against the governement (what would be the point). Aborigenes could get more authonomy and probably support the government (as for the Maoris).

Of course you might get unrest in some cities and from refugees (sorry for them but the Australian navy ends up sinking as much as they can after letting in several hundred of thousands). Most unrests will stop with the quick return of electricity. Some people might be upset when looking at their empty bank account but with no more international market, who truly cares They wouldn't face the epidemic as well.

In my game, Papua-NG remain under their control and they help the Indonesian government retain control over Java and Sumatra. So much for Borneo and the smaller islands (I have the same idea than Jest). They were and remain involved in Korea but never sent troops to Europe. Some relations might also exist with the Thai but these will be limited. Boat people and pirates remain the most important threat

At some point during WWII these guys were virtually alone facing Japan (about 1 to 10). I never recall that they ever thought about surrender and they were able to come up with a working war industry in no time (at least one very nice tank that never entered productions, several interesting smaller vehicles plus impressive (CA-15 and Woomera bomber) and not so impressive aircrafts (CA-3 Wirraway & CA-12 Boomerang), but very good ones.

As I said, their stocks wouldn't be depleted and they would be capable of getting electricity back. Supply might pose problem but nothing that can't be overcome. In addition, for my part, they soon launch 2 aircraft carriers similar to the Chakri Naruebet (Thai) and retain an aircraft industry (Hornet and Harrier). As a result, they send some supply to the U.S. and NATO.

I would also love to have your opinion on their base at Woomera.

[Targan]

Yeah Australia has an arms industry, mostly to support the Australian Defence Forces. We manufacture our own rifles under licence, manufacture ammo in a variety of calibres, we have an advanced (although admittedly small) naval shipbuilding industry. We have our own oil and gas and huge coal reserves. We'd do okay I think.

There are a number of US intelligence bases in Australia. I don't really have an issue with it. Its not like there are huge numbers of US troops here and the US shares some of the intel it gathers through their bases here with us. I think as the decades go by the US trusts Australia more and more. At least they know we are reliable and won't back down from a fight.

[Mohoender]

Yeah Australia has an arms industry, mostly to support the Australian Defence Forces. We manufacture our own rifles under licence, manufacture ammo in a variety of calibres, we have an advanced (although admittedly small) naval shipbuilding industry. We have our own oil and gas and huge coal reserves. We'd do okay I think.

There are a number of US intelligence bases in Australia. I don't really have an issue with it. Its not like there are huge numbers of US troops here and the US shares some of the intel it gathers through their bases here with us. I think as the decades go by the US trusts Australia more and more. At least they know we are reliable and won't back down from a fight.

I agree about all that but my point about Woomera comes from old memory. I believe it is involved with space operations and it was involved in rocket testing. As a result, could it be use to limited space launch that could help restore some satellite network (over time of course)

[Targan]

Oh right, the Woomera Rocket Range. Actually that was reactivated in the late 1990s to test a series of scramjet designs. Probably still in mothballs in the T2K timeline though.

[kcdusk]

my party kept a deranged and chemically damaged cannibal in a steel cage for some time . For scientific reasons ..right..

Bring out the gimp!

[headquarters]

heheh

Bring out the gimp!

yeah ..but they couldnt actually bring him out as he was a homocidal maniac 100% of the time except when drugged by horsetranqulizers or blacked out from lack of sleep/food or abundance of blows to the head..

I guess my group isnt strong on the ethic stuff or "heroes" in any classical sense of the word .

They are more like Al Swearengen and his sidekick Dan in Deadwood-only less thought through and more violent .

I often let them encounter some upright ,stand up kind of NPCs to remind them of the origins of the RPG as a genre -but these goodietwoshoes annoy the crap out of them within minutes ,and since they fight fair and try for good outcomes -end up dead in pretty shot order .Once I had a former Marine Sniper harass the party for hours over a few sessions where they had occupied a small village ,set themselves up as lords and thrown the children and some women in a cellar rigged to blow if the locals didnt comply ...The resistance naturally formed .And as the sniper attacks began to really test them they turned to using all available firepower at suspected snipernests -destroying much of their prize village ..Rest assured - most of them were eventually killed when the angry villagers toppled the "regime" in one night of bloody sneak attacks..hhehehe

good times..

[Targan]

Just watching a documentary about Robert Menzies, Australian Prime Minister having gone to England during WWII where he tried as hard as he could to talks sense into Winston Churchill and watching as plan after plan of Churchill's fell apart, despite Menzies having told him they would. Particularly the disasters in North Africa early on, in Greece and then the fall of Singapore. So very often Australian and New Zealand troops have been sent to the other side of the earth and used as cannon fodder. What a stupid waste. ANZACs make REALLY good troops. Used well we can really make a difference. I accept that casualties, sometimes heavy casualties, happen in wars and Australians know that as well as anybody. But the damned British threw away tens of thousands of Australian and New Zealand lives during WWII pretty much for bugger all.

Churchill didn't want to antagonise the Japanese before they were at war with Britain and wasn't willing to send sufficient naval assetts or air cover to the Pacific so there was no way Singapore was going to hold out once the Japanese started fighting the Allies. You know how many soldiers were captured by the Japanese in Singapore About 130,000 for cryin' out loud, 15,000 of them Australians. Most of those 15,000 Australians were subsequently killed by the Japanese or worked to death by them in captivity. It makes me want to scream with frustration because we Australians will fight to the death if required and we are courageous in battle. I'd rather die than surrender, personally. Just make it quick.