Russia Orders Military Exercise..

[stormlion1]

What I wonder is what is the Russian Media telling its people. I'm curious to see what it says from there POV.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

What I wonder is what is the Russian Media telling its people. I'm curious to see what it says from there POV.

I'm sure their nationalism is running at an all-time high.

They "beat" the west in the Olympics (38 medals to our what, 26 or something like that), showed the world what a grand spectacle they could put on there (or at least that's what they told their people), and after the ass-kicking they got in Dagestan and Chechnya, the home team winning one on the road has to have them just full of themselves...

[kalos72]

There are rumors now about the US trying to remove Russia from the G8 or at very least the US not attending until they are removed.

[Rainbow Six]

What I wonder is what is the Russian Media telling its people. I'm curious to see what it says from there POV.

Here you go.

http://english.pravda.ru/

(I don't think you'll like it much as it is heavily biased to the Russian side, although the Greatest Cover Girls Of All Time feature isn't bad)

As a counter to that you can also see what the Ukrainians are saying if you want

http://en.interfax.com.ua/

I'm sure you'll be able to get many more through google, many of which will have their own biases...I think I'll stick with the BBC and a couple of the decent British newspapers...I'd recommend the Times but I think their online platform is subscription only now.

[adimar]

The European Country's aren't even interested in doing something but complaining and wringing there hands

Basically its all they can do.
Just remember what a hard time they had suppressing Muammar Gadaffi's third rate army.
Now you want them to stare into the jaws of the Russian bear
Also the bear wouldn't even have to actually hit them the cause massive casualties.
A huge percentage of Europe depends on Russian gas for heating, any embargo will result in massive civilian casualties in the next winter.

And as for the united states...a nation that under the current president, stabbed just about all of its allies in the back.
Nothing more than an emasculated giant.

Adi

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Basically its all they can do.
Just remember what a hard time they had suppressing Muammar Gadaffi's third rate army.
Now you want them to stare into the jaws of the Russian bear
Also the bear wouldn't even have to actually hit them the cause massive casualties.
A huge percentage of Europe depends on Russian gas for heating, any embargo will result in massive civilian casualties in the next winter.

And as for the united states...a nation that under the current president, stabbed just about all of its allies in the back.
Nothing more than an emasculated giant.

Adi

Sadly true.

[kalos72]

Thing that kills me here...

Is that we have done this for years and years...now that we really need to step in and help, we can't.

We have blown our political capital on crap like Iraq/Afghanistan and we cant do anything when a country is being invaded by a bully.

[Targan]

This:

Does anybody really think that the Pentagon, NATO, the EU or the UN has a contingency plan for military intervention in the Ukraine against the Russians

This is not Saddam Hussein or another tin pot dictator bullying it's smaller neighbour. This is Russia, a vast country armed to the teeth with all sorts of sophisticated weaponry including a huge strategic nuclear arsenal. And they also have a legitimate grievance about protecting their national interests in the Ukraine, mainly as a lot of Russians live their and the Crimea has traditionally been part of Russia.

What do you think that Europe could do to make a country with an armed forces the size of Russia to withdraw from the Crimea The answer is absolutely nothing outside of economic sanctions, and the Russians could also retaliate by cutting off the gas supply to Europe. Even America can do nothing because Russia hold all the geographical and logistical advantages. No US general or military advisor would advocate taking on the Russians anywhere yet alone in their own back yard. If you launch a Tomahawk cruise missile on Russian territory you could get an ICBM launched back at you.

and this:

Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do to make Russia withdraw from the Crimea, or the Eastern Ukraine if it sends its forces into it other than engaging Putin in sensitive diplomacy.

The Russians don't think the same way about democracy and the end of the Cold War that westerners do. They feel humiliated by losing the Cold War and watching their former allies join NATO. The Ukraine is far to close to home and to their own culture and history for Russians to let go off, and is the final line in the sand for them. They wont back down.

If you sanction the Russians they will cut off the gas supply to Europe, and sell nuclear technology to Iran and North Korea. If you politically isolate a country like Russia it will start breaking every arms treaty it has signed since the end of the Cold War. It will also probably start to revert to its old ways and may start taking back all of the old Soviet Union and will cosy up with China.

I couldn't have written that better myself. And you know what I don't like what the Russians are doing in the Ukraine any more than anyone else here, but if the shoe was on the other foot, I think the US would do much the same as the Russians are doing. The US tends to be better at putting a nice spin on things and probably wouldn't be quite as blunt, but from the Russian point of view I'm sure they feel some justification in their actions (as well as gaining the benefits of a naked land-grab).

[stormlion1]

Even if the US had the power and political backing there is little the US could really do in the Crimea. Its the Ruskies backyard, the most we could do would be to send in supplies in 3rd party aircraft and land them in non-Russian Controlled airfields. The West just doesn't have any real options.

[Olefin]

Actually they have a big one - embargo the Russians - it means the US supporting the needs of the Europeans for natural gas and I am not sure if we have enough ships to be able to do it - but if they can get enough of the European Union states and other countries to not buy their gas and oil then Putin is in major trouble

[kato13]

Actually they have a big one - embargo the Russians - it means the US supporting the needs of the Europeans for natural gas and I am not sure if we have enough ships to be able to do it - but if they can get enough of the European Union states and other countries to not buy their gas and oil then Putin is in major trouble

The Polish natural gas industry and infrastructure could also benefit from US technology, equipment, and know how. Fracking could be the key to breaking the energy grip the Russians have over Western Europe. I know the UK is considering increased fracking as well.

Fracking has been so politicized on both sides of the Atlantic. Even though IMO this is logical and in times of potential conflicts compromises should be made, I still see this being a very tough sell.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Well, remember how Adolph Hitler viewed the Versailles Treaty: "A mere piece of paper". Treaties and such are just like laws....they are only as effective as the means, AND will to enforce them. Both are key.

The nuclear cat is already out of the bag at this point. Nukes are basically seen as the fast ticket to getting "respect" these days among most, I'd say the addition of a dozen more nuclear armed powers is inevitable...and then Pandora's box gets opened and it all goes downhill. See There's still a chance we'll get to play T2K in real life yet.

I sometimes wonder if it was wise for the Ukraine to give up their nukes, they were like the 3rd or 4th largest nuke power after the breakup of the USSR, then again, it could be a bigger mess, Russia could lose Moscow for Kiev or Leningrad/St. Petersburg for Kherson. Sad to say, the world cannot do much at this point except voice their condemnations and sanctions. The U.S. should not get involved, we have lots of problems here although we need to keep an eye on it. Still, it hurts me to see the Ukraine get bullied, f I could magically snap my fingers and give them 1000 M48/M60 tanks for example, I would.

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

Wait a sec, the operation has expanded beyond Crimea Crap...this is going to get fugly. Fast.
This smacks of pre-meditation. It just does. Ivan's had a while to plan this.

Well, CFE is toast people...wanna guess where a lot of our surplus gear is going E very Eastern European nation that can afford it. And maybe some that can't.

Well, maybe they WILL get M48/M60 tanks after all.

Chuck

[Nowhere Man 1966]

What I wonder is what is the Russian Media telling its people. I'm curious to see what it says from there POV.

I think I'll spend some more time on my shortwave radio. I can pick up Romania in the late afternoons as well.

Chuck

[pmulcahy11b]

Actually they have a big one - embargo the Russians - it means the US supporting the needs of the Europeans for natural gas and I am not sure if we have enough ships to be able to do it - but if they can get enough of the European Union states and other countries to not buy their gas and oil then Putin is in major trouble

We can't embargo them -- they have oil and a lot of minerals and metals that we can't do without.