Improvised Armor in T2K

[Tegyrius]

Here, have some context:

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=2531&page=2

Relevant discussion begins with post 38. You may wish to reference my brief analysis in post 60.

- C.

[LT. Ox]

I hope you understand that I have

Absolutely no argument with your position, nor do I think that supporting theft is acceptable and it is pure and simple theft to use copyrighted material without permission obtained by the rightful holder of that copyright.

As I said earlier I have lost a lot of revenue to people that cannot or will not have enough integrity to purchase material or ask to obtain it in a legal and respectful manner.
My Company was also me, myself and I, I researched historic items I carved and engraved masters, made models and molds and then cast cleaned and polished the products.
The most time consuming part is the research and model making as much as three hundred hours went into a piece. Then someone takes my work and puts it into a machine and two hours later is producing the item. Then sells it for fifty cents less. Yep it upsets me.
That is not the point Sir. What I object to is name calling on a site and where it can go.
I am sure your use of the Term, Dick, has a different meaning then it does to me, Generational for sure. If you referred to me with that term face to face I would be prone to punch you in the nose. (Not really I have grown out of that just last year.)
I hope you see my point. If not I am sorry if I have upset you or added to a touch situation.

[Legbreaker]

As I said, ignoring the existence of internet piracy and insulting people does not make the issue or files go away. They are a fact of life whether we like it or not and sticking ones head in the sand does nobody any good.
Those that pay for material, good on them. Those that don't, well, what can really be done about it in a practical sense The internet and international law is complex and it would seem there are many, many skilled people more than willing to "break" any protections placed on written work (and all other forms of digital media).
Morally it may not be right (depending on culture), but it happens and will continue to happen for as long as humans exist.

It may be harsh, and I intend no insult, but "deal with it" seems to be about the only advice that can be given to authors and other creators, short of expensive and probably futile legal action (like I said, the internet is big, and international laws complex and incomplete).

Any author under the current situation really only has two choices - publish and risk being ripped off, or don't.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Hey fellas, how about we stop talking about this in this particular thread
There's already been enough derailing (and yes I was one of the culprits).
If people want to discuss it, there's always PMs or an Off-Topic thread that can be started yeah

Cheers

[LT. Ox]

Copy

Roger

[rcaf_777]

Here's a novel idea lets get back on the topic of the thread which is improvised armour

How about making armour using other items

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Here's a novel idea lets get back on the topic of the thread which is improvised armour

How about making armour using other items

Seems your bluntness didn't do the trick

This particular form of alternate armour has been mentioned before, it was seen on vehicles in the break up of Yugoslavia - thick rubber matting like that seen on conveyor belts. In fact conveyor belts are superior because they generally have fibre or metallic strands braided through the material for extra strength.

You could probably form a decent composite from steel plate, conveyor belt, hard wood planks and another layer of steel plate. The conveyor belt would give it a little bit of resistance in the same manner as ballistic fibres (as in they stretch somewhat to absorb some of the energy).

Even conveyor belt hanging as a skirt might have some value against solid projectiles and possibly even light anti-armour rockets. Being unsecured on one or more sides means the belt would flex wildly when struck and likely change the trajectory of the round along with reducing its energy.

[rcaf_777]

In the TV Show Mythbusters, they used phone books to amour up at car, while it did protection againsit some of the smaller rounds it was unable to deal with large caliber stuff and the weight made the car very slow

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Another thing I've seen done is a composite of ceramic tiles like those you use for tiling a bathroom, sheet steel, fibreglass cloth and rolls of duct-tape.

Bond the tiles to the sheet steel, add another layer of tiles to cover the gaps in the first layer, cover each side in a few layers of fibreglass cloth then bond it with fibreglass resin then wrap the whole thing in metres of duct-tape.

It's labour & resource intensive to make vehicle sized plates but a 1-2cm plate stops common pistol rounds and buckshot and severely slows down mid-calibre rifle rounds.

[aspqrz]

Sounds like all of this would be about as successful as the Soviet attempts to use improvised armour (not tanks) against the Finns at the beginning of the Winter War ... not very, in other words.

Counterproductive time wasting in fact - they would have been better off figuring out better tactics or deployments and not ordering human wave attacks!

Now, welding track links or stuff to MBT hulls or even scrap metal to Hummers is not quite as bad ... but, if you think about it, smacks of the same sort of sloppy thinking.

It's like what I remember reading about an assessment of US Army 'recon' in WW2 vs what everyone else did. Everyone else snuck around and actually sent people in on the sly (or tried to) to see what was in that copse of trees over thar yonder ... the US simply called in a divisional level artillery barrage and, voila, no trees (and no occupants, if any were there in the first place).

Or those officers (mostly) who act like anything with a track and a machinegun is a tank ... and find out sharpish that they aren't ... or who think that a Tank can make an unsupported cavalry charge, and find out that infantry support is a much better idea, usually too late for the tank crew (or the rest of the tank crew if they were the track commander).

If you're improvising armour then you're probably doing something wrong in the first place ... probably ...

Phil

[rcaf_777]

Another thing I've seen done is a composite of ceramic tiles like those you use for tiling a bathroom, sheet steel, fibreglass cloth and rolls of duct-tape.

Roof titles might work better

[rcaf_777]

Found this too

http://www.fortisarmour.com/products/19_vehicle_armour_covert/

[unkated]

Mexican Narco Tanks

If you want to see improvised armor have you seen what Mexican druglords are doing in Mexico now as to making improvised "narco" tanks Definitely something that someone could come up with in T2KU.

Brief articles on Mexican narco tanks. Low on detail, but the pictures are good. I suspect that like bank armored cars, the armor is helpful against small arms only.

Second article with a few notes. Most of the added detail you will have guessed from the first pictures. 2-in steel sides especially angled, would up the defensive value to something more like 6 or 7 - again, good vs small arms & LMGs.

Uncle Ted

[Olefin]

Brief articles on Mexican narco tanks. Low on detail, but the pictures are good. I suspect that like bank armored cars, the armor is helpful against small arms only.

Second article with a few notes. Most of the added detail you will have guessed from the first pictures. 2-in steel sides especially angled, would up the defensive value to something more like 6 or 7 - again, good vs small arms & LMGs.

Uncle Ted

2 inch thick armor! - hell thats better than the armor on most of equipment the Mexican Army uses - and your typical cop or narc agent isnt carrying around an RPG

[Rockwolf66]

2 inch thick armor! - hell thats better than the armor on most of equipment the Mexican Army uses - and your typical cop or narc agent isnt carrying around an RPG

Well someone has used an RPG on one of the Narco-tanks. On page 70 there is an Image of what happens when a RPG hits the cab of one of these things.

Narco Armor PDF