Mexican Army Sourcebook

[Raellus]

Benjamin,

Where did the Soviet paratroops come from How'd they get to Mexico at that stage in the war

They'd probably be better off launching the attack before the ground invasion kicked off, with the planes taking off a couple of hours before the Mexican SF infiltration teams began their attacks on various U.S. military and C&C installations.

The drop on Colorado Springs would have the benefit of sowing confusion and panic and thusly hindering the response to the conventional invasion. Also, the Americans wouldn't be expecting it (or ready for the Mexican invasion in general). Waiting to launch the drops until after the ground invasion would have the Americans on the alert. Whatever air assets were available in CONUS would be cued and poised to support the American troops attempting to stem the Mexican tide. Yeah, most of the USAF's F-15 and F-16s would be overseas. But heck, a couple of F-4s- even a flight of old ANG/AFR Delta Darts (fresh out of mothballs, of course)- could tear an unescorted Mexican transport fleet to shreds. Even if the transports were flying in dribs and drabs on different vectors, losing just 2-3 would severely deplete the fighting power of the airborne troops. And forget about resupply.

[Benjamin]

I envision the Soviet Airborne contingent to the invasion being a company sized unit sent to Cuba just prior to the invasion in Norway. Their initial purpose was to serve as a training cadre for the Cuban Airborne forces. The origional plan was for an airborne drop in Florida as a diversion from the Alaska invasion, but Cuba refused to cooperate. After the strategic nuclear exchange Cuba, which had not yet been hit by nukes, offered Division Cuba, which included the paratroopers, for service in Mexico.

Along with Division Cuba Castro, Raul not Fidel at this point, sent nearly two divisions worth of Cuban "volunteers" to Mexico. Included in this number was a brigade of paratroopers. These traveled to Mexico over a period of nearly a year on a variety of transports.

I believe you're right that launching the airborne assault a day before the ground assault would make more sense.

An interesting idea is using civilian airliners to launch the air assault. Would it be possible to parachute out of the rear doors of a major airliner such as the 747 Perhaps they could set the autopilot... everyone bails... and the airplane then goes along until crashing. I'm sure there'd be no shortage of unused passanger aircraft sitting around. Give them enough fuel for a one way trip and send them on their way.

Benjamin

[Raellus]

A very credible explanation for the presence of Soviet and Cuban airborne troops in Mexico. It seems, though, that such a force would be dropped in direct support of Division Cuba's operations in Texas.

An interesting idea is using civilian airliners to launch the air assault. Would it be possible to parachute out of the rear doors of a major airliner such as the 747 Perhaps they could set the autopilot... everyone bails... and the airplane then goes along until crashing. I'm sure there'd be no shortage of unused passanger aircraft sitting around. Give them enough fuel for a one way trip and send them on their way.

Heistmeister D.B. Cooper jumped out of the rear passenger loading ramp door of an in-flight 727 back in the '70s. It looks like he landed in a river and probably drowned, though.

I don't know if you could jump from a larger jetliner. 747s can fly low and slow enough to drop fire retardents on forest fires (there's a company that does the coversions a few miles from my house) so they could probably fly low and slow enough drop paratroopers.

Would there be regular international air service after the TDM, though I've never really thought about it. The air traffic control system would be totally screwed up by '98. Probably not is my first reaction. So, I would think any suspicious radar contacts would be treated with suspicion, if not outright hostility.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, a Soviet-Cuban-Mexican airdrop in Colorado would go down as the longest-range large unit airborne operation in history, insofar as the distance from the front lines to the target DZ. Pretty audacious, if not downright suicidal.

[Fusilier]

Would it be possible to parachute out of the rear doors of a major airliner such as the 747

Why not just land them on the tarmac of a civilian airport Its been done before.

I've been a fan of the airborne concept myself. Not really probable (although not impossible), but more for nostalgic reasons (Red Dawn like you mentioned).

In my timeline, there were airborne drops to support the invasion. A couple battalion drops (not all para though - some landing and dismounting from planes on undefended civil airports) and some smaller platoon/company drops.

I have the Cuban's heavily involved in the Mexican campaign. At first they are reluctant to get involved, but eventually get drawn in. As do the addition to a couple other nations (Nicaragua and Venezuela).

[Legbreaker]

If you're really set on airborne insertion, why not add a few plywood gliders
On D-Day back in 1944, many of the aircraft were towing at least one, sometimes two gliders behind them. Didn't do much for manouverability or fuel consumption, and anyone inside the gliders were either suicidally brave or rediculously stupid/naive, but it was an effective means for dropping troops untrained with parachutes as well as heavier equipment like AT guns, jeeps and the like.

[Rainbow Six]

How about a Spetznaz attack on Colorado Springs

A Mexican C130 could be painted in US colours, fly north and drop a Spetznaz team in Colorado who would be tasked with infiltrating Milgov HQ and causing as much damage as possible. Presumably the Mexicans would have acquired lots of US Army equipment in Texas, so the Spetznaz could easily be disguised as American troops.

Rather than being a suicide mission, the Spetznaz might be able to take advantage of the chaos and confusion that they had caused to get clear of the area (especially if still disguised as Americans) and make their way back to Texas overland.

[Turboswede]

I feel the need to chime in here. I never bought the oeleftist-Marxist government in Mexico premise of the original timeline even when I was 10. Considering the support the U.S. gave right wing military governments in the rest of Latin America through the 70s and 80s, there is no way we would have allowed that to happen in Mexico.

Mexico may have elected some kind of green/catholic socialist/land reform party, but they would never have provided the military with the resources to threaten the U.S. Other than organizing some kind of labor movement among agricultural workers, I could not even imagine an expansionist oeleftist government in Mexico.

The only way I could ever reconcile a Mexican invasion of the U.S. (which is a cool gaming idea) is a military Junta. I could see the Cubans aligned with a Mexican Junta because the Junta could still be a populist movement, but not a Marxist one.

O.K. I loved Red Dawn and played Fortress America and though the SDI system was a good idea. However, Regan never, ever, ever, ever would have allowed anything resembling the Sandinistas to take power in Mexico.

[Benjamin]

I totally agree that with a continuing Cold War no leftist government would be allowed in Mexico. This whole thing started as a thought experiment to have a legitimate Mexican invasion with the possibility of success. I added an airborne assault into Colorado as a wink-wink to the cult classic, Red Dawn.

Having a smaller Spetznaz attack makes more sense but is a bit less fun for those wishing to play out a Red Dawn scenario.

[Raellus]

O.K. I loved Red Dawn and played Fortress America...

Fortress America! What a blast from the past. I used to make my little brother be the foreign invaders every time we played. Talk about an improbable scenario. It was still a fun game though.

Leg, gliders take a lot of practice to fly and land properly. In fact, it would probably be easier from a cost/logistics standpoint to train up a new regiment of parachute troops than to design and build a new type of military glider and train pilots to fly it (and train the "tug" pilots to tow it). I don't think gliders have been used in combat since WWII and there are definitely many good reasons for that. And towing gliders is one of the only things I don't think a C-130 has ever done before.

Benjamin, I'm not trying to shoot down your idea. I'm just trying to rationalize it in my own mind. How about this Spetznaz, either parachuted in disguised as Americans or landed in a legit civilian airliner, take over an airport/airfield while Mexican commandos, infiltrated over the border in the months leading up to the invasion, attack radar installations along the follow-up flight path. This would allow a large force of parachute troops and/or just regular infantry to both drop from Mexican military aircraft and land in regular civilian jetliners. It could also allow some follow up resupply aircraft to sneak through. I think eventually, though, the USAF and ground based AA would be able to close that air corridor. But, for a couple of weeks, at least, the Soviet-Mexican (maybe Cuban also) airborne/airmobile force would be able to wreak havoc in Colorado.

[Raellus]

I totally agree that with a continuing Cold War no leftist government would be allowed in Mexico.

Mexico's ruling government during most of the last century, the PRI, was a really a broad coalition of many different political philosophies including many center-left groups.

I think this is where the French come in to play. If Mexico was leaning towards a sort of Western European socialism- like what the French had going on in the '80s and '90s- especially if it was openly supported/encouraged by the French, the U.S. would probably accept it. They wouldn't be too happy about it, but a moderate center-left government, retaining strong ties to the U.S. and the West, wouldn't be seen as too much of a threat. It may actually be seen pragmatically as somewhat of a buffer or mediating force between the right-leaning U.S. (of the '80s and early '90s) and the more leftist, Soviet-influenced countries of the rest of Latin America.

This also sets up the French as a major player in the region prior to the war starting and would help justify a massive French arms deal for the Mexicans, making them stronger and the successful (at least initially) invasion of the southern U.S. more plausible.

[Webstral]

OTFortress America

I still love Fortress America. One of my long-term start-again-stop-again projects has been to create an on-line page devoted to Fortress America. In my experience, its entirely possible for the invaders to win, but they need a bit of luck and more than a bit of skill. Even more so than Axis & Allies, Fortress America is a game of psychological warfare.

One change some friends and I have used for years is to place the invasion zones off-limits to lasers. We found that the entire game could be unhinged by as few as three laser hits on Euro-Socialist Pact bombers early in the game. While possibly a reflection of how hard a real world invasion of the continental US would be, we found that we preferred a game in which the US would have to work harder. In fact, we played that way so long (since the game came out) that we rather forgot that the rules allow lasers to target units in the invasion zones.

Webstral

[Benjamin]

Raellus, I think there is a very fine line between the far right and far left sides of the political spectrum. While Mexico could get away with having a European style socialist government, it would not be able to have a near communist government that nationalized foreign assets. What is possible is that a right-leaning coalition backed by the military holds control from the late eighties until the nuclear exchange whereupon they are overthrown by a leftist government that sides with Cuba and the Soviet Union.

Is anyone else working on a Mexican Sourcebook If not I may give it a try though my Spanish is very poor. I think I'll stick mostly to the military side of things with only limited references to the politics behind the invasion. Most major weapon systems will be of French and Chinese origins.

As for Mexican war aims, I would have their goal be to seize the large Mexican-American population centers within Texas and California. The Mexican leadership is working under the naive belief that these ex-Mexicans will welcome the Mexican Army as saviors, given the chaos that exists in the US. By "liberating" these Mexicans they hope to unite the fractured Mexican populace by holding America up as an external threat requiring Mexicans to unite together.

A secondary war aim is to seize the remaining oil producing regions of the American Southwest. This would give Mexico a step up in its recovery efforts. Even though many of the oil production facilities have been destroyed holding the well heads would give Mexico a major advantage in the near future.

Finally, Mexico hopes to position itself in such a way as to allow a quicker recovery than that of America. This would allow Mexico to possible reverse the political situation that has traditionally existed between Mexico and the US. This would allow Mexico to become the dominant nation in Central America and the Caribbean.

Benjamin

[Legbreaker]

Leg, gliders take a lot of practice to fly and land properly. In fact, it would probably be easier from a cost/logistics standpoint to train up a new regiment of parachute troops than to design and build a new type of military glider and train pilots to fly it (and train the "tug" pilots to tow it). I don't think gliders have been used in combat since WWII and there are definitely many good reasons for that. And towing gliders is one of the only things I don't think a C-130 has ever done before.

They probably haven't been used since 1945, however I can imagine a severe shortage of parachutes in Mexico in 2000 so gliders made from the much more common and available plywood, etc, would likely be a necessity.
Granted there'd be a bit of a shortage of pilots to fly them, but nothing a few hours training couldn't fix (or a swift knock to the head to reduce the "pilots" common sense and self preservation).
I'm guessing there'd be at least one pilot available with some experience of gliders as a prewar hobby, both flying them and piloting the tug aircraft. Their experience would be invaluable in reducing basic mistakes.

Still, you wouldn't catch me within ten miles of the deathtraps!