Morrow Aviation Assets

[mmartin798]

I guess it all depends on design. A jet engine has compressor fans that feed into the combustion chamber where the jet fuel ignites and goes out the back through more fans to run the compressor fans. We currently have plasma torches that can convert normal air into plasma with a temperature of about 2700K. Used in the combustion chamber we would not have the added volume from burning fuel, but you would have cold compressed air rapidly heated to something over 1500K that would providing thrust. How much is something I really don't know. But then again, we currently don't have a portable fusion reactor capable of driving multiple plasma torches into a jet engine's combustion chamber to see what kind of output is possible. It would not be as much as a normal jet, but if it were a significant fraction, it might be useful.

[kato13]

While trying to determine the possibility of a project resource similar to Marvel's Quinjet from the Cinematic Universe (Earth-199999) running mostly on fusion power, I found this little gem.

http://www.janes.com/article/39936/darpa-to-progress-vtol-x-plane-as-boeing-reveals-phantom-swift-details

If you take this to full scale, and put a fusion engine on it, I could see this being an important resource for moving key components around for the project.

[mmartin798]

This does bring the whole size and weight of the reactor into play. The 17% scale model is has engines putting out over 2MW. If we scale this up and there are no additional efficiencies to the air moving parts of the engine, we are looking at... let see carry the one.... we will be looking at about 12 MW needed for operation. How big and heavy will this reactor be

(Numbers calculated unitizing the model and assuming thrust increases by squaring and mass by cubing)

[kato13]

This does bring the whole size and weight of the reactor into play. The 17% scale model is has engines putting out over 2MW. If we scale this up and there are no additional efficiencies to the air moving parts of the engine, we are looking at... let see carry the one.... we will be looking at about 12 MW needed for operation. How big and heavy will this reactor be

(Numbers calculated unitizing the model and assuming thrust increases by squaring and mass by cubing)

Canon reactors (3rd Edition) had insanely high output IIRC. Something like 100Mw for 500kg.

The numbers here seem a little more plausible. Though personally I am not sure would not include the smallest reactor.

I still always seem to come back to 3He being necessary for those types of numbers as it would need minimal shielding. If the project can get a hold of about 4 tons of it I think things move into the feasible realm.

The only potential sources for that 4 tons take me far into the realms of science fiction where we are accessing someone's refined fuel source (crashed starship or use of something like the Stargate). Sorry for going way OT

[dragoon500ly]

I've been reading, with a great deal of intrest, all of the postings for the Aviation arm of the Project. Here are a few observations:

The Project itself is supposed to be a small group focused on rebuilding America. The more personnel pulled from the teams and into support functions is that many fewer personnel able to assist the surviving population.

Planning for the Project was based on a 5-year wake-up after TEOTWAWKI. The Aviation section would have small numbers of helicopters and transports for immediate use, with a plan to secure additional aircraft from surviving airfields. I can see a large-ish supply of spare parts and a pool of engineers, mechanics and pilots to repair and use existing aircraft.

The Project is, for the most part a civilian organization with some military aspects....it would be doubtful at best, that the planners would deem it necessary for the Morrow Air Force to acquire its own fleet of combat aircraft. With a 5-year wake up, there is a real possibility that the US Air Force may still be in existence, why confuse things more

Aircraft means airfields and support structures. I can see the Project planning for auto-gyros...helicopters and rough-field capable transports because these can be used for reconnaissance and transport of essential supplies/personnel, but there comes a point where the question becomes how many aircraft are necessary A handful of auto-gyros and a couple of helicopters at a regional base, Prime Base with its handful of larger helos and transport aircraft is a reasonable number. Anthing more than 30-50 aircraft would require the diversion of personnel and supplies from assisting the survivors.

[stormlion1]

This is all more of a "wish you could have" kind of thing. I honestly expect the Project had lots of small aircraft like Piper Cubs for scouting, a few private jets for higher ups, Helicopters galore-most likely old Hueys or Little Birds as who would notice a civilian company buying them And several Cargo Aircraft. The main thing is storage and landing strips. A landing strip isn't easy to hide or maintain so my money would be ones outside the US Borders with strips carved out of Canada's wilderness and down in Mexico in airfields far from civilization. Kept openly, but maintained by small crews to keep them airworthy but when the project didn't wake up, were abandoned in place by those same crews wanting to go home.

[mmartin798]

Runways really don't matter. VTOLs don't need them and units like Cubs and C150's just need a grass field or even a firm packed beach. Jets would more than likely require a hard field to land on, but even there a salt flat could due. The real problems are, as you rightly mention, storage and maintenance.

[kato13]

I agree that above 40-60 active aircraft is probably overkill, but storing double or triple that makes sense for long term use. Losses and breakdowns are inevitable.

I have generally done the standard route of Hueys, MD-600s, C-130s and CH-47s in my prior games.

Restrictions on numbers is why I am looking at the ultimate multipurpose aircraft. The VTOL, fixed wing, mach capable, 20 troop capacity, medium range (but unfortunately very fictional) Marvel Quinjet. (For a modern game)





As far as the quinjet goes. I believe I am going to have to

• Lose mach
• Really fudge materials advancement to get the weight down and make the rotors and fusion heat exchangers possible
• Get something in the realm of 40MW output from fusion engines. (Something I only think possible with 3He fusion)

Even with this aircraft I would still probably have some Hueys, MD-600s (modified to MH-6 standards) plus the 4 C-130s at prime. I know maintenance will be an Issue, but heck we can just get the Phoenix team to do it as apparently they can do EVERYTHING

[mmartin798]

I still always seem to come back to 3He being necessary for those types of numbers as it would need minimal shielding. If the project can get a hold of about 4 tons of it I think things move into the feasible realm.

The only potential sources for that 4 tons take me far into the realms of science fiction where we are accessing someone's refined fuel source (crashed starship or use of something like the Stargate). Sorry for going way OT

After 150 years, you might have that 4 tons of He3 at Isla Nebular if you ended up including that D2 reactor.

[kato13]

After 150 years, you might have that 4 tons of He3 at Isla Nebular if you ended up including that D2 reactor.

Yeah I thought about using my time shifting technology (reversed to make time go faster of course) wrapped around a reactor to get it. I still may go that path but I wanted to find a solution for people who did not use the time bubbles as a replacement for cryotubes. There is also the need to bleed the energy out of the bubble, but I have made the "science" on that flexible enough that perhaps it can be radiated as some form of EM waves.

[ArmySGT.]

Specifications (K-MAX)
K-1200 orthographical image.svg

Data from K-MAX Performance and Specs[46]

General characteristics

Crew: 1
Capacity: 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) external load
Length: 51 ft 10 in (15.8 m)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft 3 in (14.7m)
Height: 13 ft 7 in (4.14 m)
Empty weight: 5,145 lb (2,334 kg)
Useful load: 6,855 lb (3,109 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 12,000 lb (5,443 kg)
Powerplant: 1 -- Honeywell T53-17 turboshaft, 1341 kW (1,800 shp), flat rated to 1118 kW (1500 shp) for take-off / 1350 shp in flight[47][48])

Performance

Maximum speed: 100 knots (185.2 km/h)
Cruise speed: 80 knots (148.2 km/h)
Range: 267 nm (494.5 km)
Fuel consumption: 85 gallons/hour[12]

[rcaf_777]

Based the needs and outcomes onf the project I figured they would have

McDonnell Douglas MD 500 Defender (Gunships and Team Lift)
Bell 204/205 (Gunships, Cargo, Team Lift, MEDVAC)
Bell 214ST (Cargo, Team Lift, MEDVAC)
Cessna O-2 Skymaster (Recon MEDVAC)
Boeing CH-47 Chinook (Heavy Cargo, MARS Support)
Beechcraft T-34 Mentor (Comand and Control, High Speed Personel Transport)

These would be grouped in a Wing and assigned as area assets, the number of the aircraft would depend on missions of near by teams.

Bolthole and Cache locations would be near small regional civilian airports, you might also see a small engieering team boltholed near by so that they could help with runway repair if needed. Given the ammount of people you need to run air operations, the project would have cluster it's boltholes around an airport.

I think an large cargo aircraft like the C-130 would be held at Prime Base, and forward deployed as need.

Here is two other aircraft that project might find usefull. I see them being used an airforce version of a MARS Team

Piper PA-48 Enforcer
Boeing Skyfox

[mmartin798]

Well anything without true Jet propulsion would be limited to sub mach speeds (around 80% IIRC). That makes me think more of Cargo and Coin aircraft, but the A-10 is subsonic .

Just did some research into supercruise. It IS possible for turbofan achieve and maintain supersonic speeds without afterburners. The aircraft just spends a great deal of time in the high-drag transonic flight envelope. So it is not preferred because it is fuel inefficient. But in a fusion powered aircraft, might not be a problem.

[kato13]

That is interesting. I am hoping to get ~ mach 1.3


When I get some time I will try to mock something up in VDS (the vehicle equivalent to BTRC's "Guns Guns Guns" firearm generator)

[mmartin798]

The numbers for speed I have seen for supercruise is mach 1.2-1.4. So you should be good.